• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

How old is the world?

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by wisdomseeker, Jul 4, 2005.

  1. Sinai

    Sinai Well-Known Member

    +15
    Protestant
    Scientists estimate the age of our planet as being approximately 4.5-4.6 billion years, though this figure may be revised over the next 18 months as data from the Deep Space probe that examined the core of Comet Tempel 1 is analyzed.

    The Bible does not say how old the world is, though the geneologies from Adam to Christ are generally measured as being about 4-44 thousand years (depending upon which of the assumptions made by Ussher and Lightfoot one accepts and which ones are rejected). The principal difference among theologians is in how the six yoms of the first Chapter of Genesis should be interpreted.
    Both the young earth creationists (YECs) and the old earth creationists (OECs) generally believe God created the universe and the earth as set out in the first chapter of Genesis, although you will find some differences of opinion in both groups.

    Although the YECs may differ among themselves as to how many of the assumptions made by Ussher and Lightfoot they believe, they tend to be united in their belief that the Hebrew word transliterated as yom should only be interpreted to mean a 24-hour day. They reject the other meanings for yom primarily because that is the most common usage of the word and because of the repeated usage of the phrase that concludes each of the six days of creation: (with the Hebrew words reversed to correspond to the English order) wayhi-'erev wayhi-voqer yom 'echadh....yom sheni....yom shelishi...., which is generally translated "and it was evening and it was morning day one....day second....day third," etc. (which they say clearly show a regular 24-hour day).

    The OECs also have their divisions, with the major division probably being between the ones who accept a literal reading of Genesis and those who prefer a figurative or nonliteral reading. Both groups tend to remind the YECs that since the sun doesn't show up until the fourth yom and since it is not certain the Earth has been formed until the third yom, a 24-hour day is questionable. Additionally, the group favoring a figurative interpretation generally assert that the Bible's account of creation is intended to be read figuratively instead of literally. They say the Bible is a spiritual guide, not a science book, and the purpose of its creation account is to say that God created the universe and cares about our spiritual needs.

    The OEC literalists generally point out that the Hebrew word for “day” (yom) can mean an indefinite period of time. Thus, they generally contend that each “day” of creation was of an indefinite period of time (even millions or billions of years) and we shouldn’t get caught up in insisting that the Bible means something here that it probably does not mean. They also respond to the YECs' "evening and morning" argument by pointing out that the Hebrew usage of the words can (and probably do) indicate during each successive yom, God was bringing greater order out of chaos.

    The Bible can support any of these positions--and they are discussed and debated in much greater detail in various threads and polls in this forum.
     
  2. wisdomseeker

    wisdomseeker New Member

    18
    +1
    Non-Denom
    Thank you for all your responses. However, I am still curious about dinosaurs being in exsistence billions of years ago. How is it we still find thier remains? Wouldn't they have disenegrated by now? Also I have read many articles saying life could not exsist at that time because of the postion of the sun and moon. I just don't know what to believe.
     
  3. Ozymandius

    Ozymandius Well-Known Member

    838
    +45
    Atheist
    What kind of articles are these (about the sun and the moon?) I'm not sure what you're referring to here.
     
  4. Elduran

    Elduran Disruptive influence

    +60
    Atheist
    Single
    My guess: the shrinking sun argument and the "losing the moon" argument.

    These have both been thoroughly debunked on these forums, so I wouldn't believe either one of those particular bits of pseudo-science ;)
     
  5. AnEmpiricalAgnostic

    AnEmpiricalAgnostic Agnostic by Fact, Atheist by Epiphany

    +174
    Atheist
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Congratulations on taking the first step and actually asking questions. The dinosaurs existed millions of years ago (not billions, here is a timeline to start you out:


    http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/geo_timeline.html

    And here’s a bit about fossils http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/Sciences/LifeScience/PhysicalAnthropology/EvolutionFact/FossilisationFossil/FossilisationFossil.htm

    You may also want to check out the sticky quiet thread up top:

    http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=15844232&postcount=29

    You’ll find a lot of usefull info there.
     
  6. L'Anatra

    L'Anatra Contributor

    678
    +24
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    Nobody has suggested dinosaurs existed billions of years ago. The animals commonly known as dinosaurs existed in what is known as the Mesozoic Era (a period of time between 250 million years ago and 65 million years ago). Their remains have been fossilized, a process whereby bone is essentially transformed into stone. Fossilization is a very rare process, but we find fossils all the time. Additionally, the positions of the sun and the moon haven't changed much in the last 4 billion years or so.

    Don't worry about knowing "what to believe" so much as going out and researching it for yourself. This isn't something that is easily undertaken, either. Don't take anyone's word for it but rather look at the evidence. Read the peer-reviewed scientific papers. There are people here that are more than willing to help. :)
     
  7. pantsman52

    pantsman52 Senior Veteran

    +211
    Agnostic
    US-Democrat
    The thing that is interesting about "christianity" is that "it" says "It is right because we say it is right"
    No proof
    No observation
    Just "well it happened this way because the only other way would be evolution and because christianity cannot accept evolution, life definately didn't evolve."
     
  8. Sinai

    Sinai Well-Known Member

    +15
    Protestant
    Interesting parallel of similar oversimplifications. Although both statements are false (since both science and Christianity rely upon both proof and observation), it should probably be noted that proof and observation are critical components of the foundation of both science and the scientific method.

    To the extent Christianity may be classified as a religion, philosophy or belief system, it would probably not be as dependent upon absolute proof or observation, but could also rely upon faith. However, it might also be observed that faith that is supported by observation and proof tends to grow stronger, while faith that is contrary to observation and proof may tend to be delusional.
     
  9. GodsSamus

    GodsSamus Active Member

    618
    +4
    Christian
    US-Republican
    How come 3 of the planets have retrograde rotation with NO evidence for a collision?
     
  10. L'Anatra

    L'Anatra Contributor

    678
    +24
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    What does the rotation of the planets have to do with the Big Bang Theory?

    Here's a hint: NOTHING
     
  11. GodsSamus

    GodsSamus Active Member

    618
    +4
    Christian
    US-Republican
    The Law of the conservation of angular momentum. Not only this, but some of the moons rotate backwards. Additionally, several of the moons ORBIT backwards around their respective planet. Also, how did a closed system, namely the universe, come from a state of disorder to order? Isn't there a second law of thermodynamics in there somewhere? Or are you going to say the whole universe is actually an open system?
     
  12. L'Anatra

    L'Anatra Contributor

    678
    +24
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    The Law of Conservation of Angular Momentum does not have anything to do with the Big Bang. The Big Bang was not an explosion in the universe, but rather an expansion of the universe itself.

    Yeah. Pretty cool, huh?

    The universe is no more ordered now than it was at the beginning. Do you even know what the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics states?

    The whole universe is very likely a closed system, but I'm not sure whether we know or not.
     
  13. GodsSamus

    GodsSamus Active Member

    618
    +4
    Christian
    US-Republican
    So how come we find radiation in the universe that's attributed to the Big Dud, sorry Big Bang.

    Pretty cool? If the Big Bang were true, this shouldn't occur. If the universe was always in existence, why do we have stars?

    Btw, the 2LoT says a closed system MUST fall into more disorder unless energy is put into organizing it. For instance, my computer will fall apart unless I take care of it.
     
  14. L'Anatra

    L'Anatra Contributor

    678
    +24
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    Do you honestly think cosmologists and astronomers who accept the Big Bang Theory are unaware that moons orbit their planets in a retrograde fashion? The Big Bang most certainly does not state that the universe was always in existence.

    The Big Bang was first posited by a Christian. The accepted model in his time in the scientific community was that of a steady-state universe that has always existed. The Big Bang Theory, however, asserts that the universe had a beginning.

    Your computer falling apart has nothing to do with thermodynamics.
     
  15. Elduran

    Elduran Disruptive influence

    +60
    Atheist
    Single
    Why exactly shouldn't this occur? Present some reasoning! By the way, stating it over and over again doesn't count as reasoning ;)

    Your computer's degradation is not a particularly good example of entropy increasing. The 2LoT applies to energy systems (chemical, potential, etc) and not strictly speaking to matter, except in certain circumstances where the two happen to coincide.
     
  16. Physics_guy

    Physics_guy Well-Known Member

    +56
    Pretty sure you don't understand it - nor do you understand the Solar System development models.

    Hint: the Solar System formed many billions of years after the Big Bang first started expanding.

    And this is no way unexpected in a stellar gas accretion model. Particularly because many were likely formed from collisions.

    It didn't. The entropy of the Universe at the instant of the Big Bang was vastly lower than it is now. Guess you would have to know what entropy actually is to understand this though. Hint: entropy is not disorder.

    Certainly is, but your representation of it shows not only that you do not understand it, but you do not understand the Big Bang either.

    It actually might be - though I doubt you will understand this. One thing you need to understand however, is that the volume of the Universe is not static, therefore, the amount of available microstates of the system is changing.

    Actually, the 2nd Law says nothing about disorder. It does say, however, that the amount of energy in a closed system available to do work will decrease.

    Hate to break this to you, but (1) that is not what the 2nd Law says, and (2) regardless of how much effort you exert or thought you invoke, you are incapable of decreasing total entropy. Intelligence does not overcome the 2nd Law, it simply allows for localized decreases in entropy at the expense of the environment. Funny, that is pretty much exactly what non-intelligent systems do as well.
     
  17. Battie

    Battie Veteran

    +151
    Christian Seeker
    Single
    I answered this back on page 1 when you posted your link.
     
  18. f U z ! o N

    f U z ! o N I fall like a sparrow and fly like a kite

    +54
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    well that argument fails because we haven't witnessed how old the earth really is.
    we have no proof and no observation as YEC's and such
    so trying to argue with evolutionists about that won't work.
    because we as Christians believe this because the bible says so. see my point?
     
  19. mutantleader

    mutantleader Member

    464
    +13
    Non-Denom
    US-Republican
    Did Noah have dinosaurs on his ark? And kangaroos?
    What was there before the big bang?
     
  20. L'Anatra

    L'Anatra Contributor

    678
    +24
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    Well, that depends on who you ask...

    There was no "before the Big Bang." The Big Bang is when time began.
     
Loading...