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How Old is the Earth?

Hans Blaster

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What kind of triple distilled idiot would?

I know. Really?

The last thing I'd want from this (or any similar) site would be to have this account linked to my professional reputation. Yikes.

(And that's outside the fact that my family doesn't know I left the church.)

There is a *reason* I edit my biographical details when discussing experiences. I'm not going to say what state I grew up in or what my favorite sports teams either.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Why would an omniscient, omnipotent God create a world full of irrational people, and then ask those very same people to make a rational choice to believe in Him?

If you want people to make a rational choice then don't make them irrational... duh
He didn’t make us irrational He made us with free will and it’s because of our own free will that we decide to be irrational. Unfortunately without free will you can’t have genuine love so it’s an imperative attribute for us to possess in order to fulfill His plan.
 
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dlamberth

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What a load of absolute rubbish, no deals were made.
In addition to @Hans Blaster's post, your comprehension skills of the paper are either non-existent or you didn’t read the paper.

Here is a non-technical description of the paper for you to understand.
The pre solar grains are found in interstellar dust formed in the ejecta of supernovae or stars shedding their surface layers.
One particular solar grain of interest is SiC (silicon carbide) where cosmic rays largely composed of protons collide with the Si nucleus in a process known as spallation to form products such as ²¹Ne (neon) and ³He (helium), ⁷Li (lithium) and ⁶Li inside the grain.
These are stable isotopes that can hang around for billions of years without undergoing radioactive decay.
The solar grains eventually formed part of the molecular cloud from which the solar system formed and ultimately meteorites.

As stated in the report the age is based on ²¹Ne and ³He not on the ⁷Li /Li⁶ ratio which could involve terrestrial contamination.
The amount of terrestrial ²¹Ne and ³He on the other hand is only 0.27% and 0.0001% of the total isotope composition found on earth for each atom respectively.

The grains were separated from the meteorite and heated to release the ²¹Ne and ³He into a mass spectrometer which “counted” their numbers.
By knowing the number, the age of the grains can be calculated as their production rate is considered to be fairly constant.
Note this is a calculation, not an assumption as you naively suggested and there are uncertainties involved such as the rate at spallation and the probability ²¹Ne and ³He are formed if spallation does occur.
This is why there are error ranges in the calculations, but the killer is the error ranges do not include the possibility of a 6000 year old earth, nowhere near it in fact.
Thank you for that. I started to read the paper. Had to stop because my eyes started to glaze over from the technicalities I was reading. Your description helped a lot.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I see a conspiracy theory in the making.
The theory of chondrule formation comes from astrophysics, the testing of meteorites is performed by planetary and earth scientists using radiometric techniques developed by nuclear physicists, hence there are a number of different disciplines involved.

Then there is the “amazing coincidence” of two independent dating techniques producing similar results for the age of the earth.
By claiming the earth is 6000 years old opens up more “amazing coincidences” such as the dating of Neolithic pots where thermoluminescence dating when the pot was fired and a revolutionary new method of radiocarbon dating of residue in the pot both indicate ages of around 8000 years.

Since this is a science forum it’s up to you to provide the physical evidence of a 6000 year old earth.
The Bible is not evidence with the added complication a large percentage of Christians do not accept the Bible as an indication of a 6000 year old earth.
It means nothing without knowing how much radiation the object had accumulated when it was created or how much it was exposed to over time. They have to guess at both of those because they don’t know.
 
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BNR32FAN

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so why is your "rational-ness" fine and my "rational-ness" isn't?
Probably because you’re on a Christian website talking to people who actually believe the word of God.
 
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BNR32FAN

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So was the choice that Adam and Eve made rational or irrational?
According to your argument rationality is subjective and therefore a null subject since it’s going to be defined differently depending on who your audience is.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Hans, didn't you say archaeology isn't your bag?

Nothing in this sub-thread is about archaeology. It is about meteoritics, radioactive dating, and nuclear chemistry.
 
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BNR32FAN

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So you're admitting that they made the rational choice. To have chosen to do otherwise would've been irrational.

But God Himself predestined them to make that choice when He chose to make them rational.

Hence Adam and Eve were doomed to failure by God Himself.
Wrong, God foreseeing their disobedience doesn’t make Him responsible for their actions by creating them knowing that they would disobey. Do you have children? I knew my children would disobey me before they were even conceived. Does that make me responsible for their disobedience? Should I have chosen not to have children because I knew they would disobey me, even tho I also knew that I would love them and they would love me and we would bring each other much love and joy?
 
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Astrid

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I know. Really?

The last thing I'd want from this (or any similar) site would be to have this account linked to my professional reputation. Yikes.

(And that's outside the fact that my family doesn't know I left the church.)

There is a *reason* I edit my biographical details when discussing experiences. I'm not going to say what state I grew up in or what my favorite sports teams either.
If someone wants to come to Singapore and look for me
let them.
I'm easy to recognize.
Kinda short, with straight black hair.
 
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BeyondET

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Funny. Attack me all you like, and
lay down a smokescreen like a ww2
destroyer.

It won't hide your post, though.

You know. The one where you
claim knowledge you don't have
(Aka making things up) immediately
after claiming you never do that. :D
Hmm a destroyer, what are you ready for war or something? It isn't that serious easy.

What did I make up?
 
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BeyondET

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Sorry, not going to happen. I'm not going to reveal my name to you in public (or private). I don't even talk about which sub-field I work in.
You might be, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But your sub field isn't in the study of the universe that's obvious. Neither am I read alot on it. And like I said until a telescope can reach the beginning of the universe its age is unknown. The farthest back in around 14 billion but that is slowly desolving. Earth's water is older than 4.5 billion.
 
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partinobodycular

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According to your argument rationality is subjective and therefore a null subject since it’s going to be defined differently depending on who your audience is.

Just a polite FYI... you're not worth having a conversation with.
 
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sjastro

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This actually doesn’t tell us anything without knowing how much radiation it accumulated when it was created 6000 years ago.
It means nothing without knowing how much radiation the object had accumulated when it was created or how much it was exposed to over time. They have to guess at both of those because they don’t know.
It is not about how much radiation has accumulated but the initial number of parent nuclei that undergo radioactive decay into daughter nuclei.
Figures quoted for how long it takes a parent nucleus to decay into a daughter nucleus is usually expressed in terms of half life t(1/2) where knowledge of the initial amount of parent nuclei is not required as shown with a bit of high school maths.

Radioactive decay depends on the number of radioactive nuclei N at any time t , N=N(t) with decay constant k defined by the equation
dN/dt = -kN which can be solved.

expon_decay.gif


N is the number of a nuclei at time t, Nₒ is the initial amount at t=0.

The half life t(1/2) is simply the mount of time required to half the number of parent nuclei into daughter nuclei.

expon_decay4.gif


As the maths shows the initial amount Nₒ is cancelled out.

A 6000 year old earth raises serious problems when it comes to radioactive decay.
Radioactive decay is a statistical process where the half life is an average value and actual decay times can vary like the statistical distribution of male and female heights.
A few years ago ¹²⁴Xe which has a half life of around 160 trillion years which is considerably older than the universe aged 14 billion years was found in a tank containing a ton of highly purified liquid xenon used as a dark matter detector.
It was found because of the enormous number of xenon atoms in the tank increased the chances of finding ¹²⁴Xe.

So called man made elements with atomic numbers exceeding 92 such as plutonium and neptunium only exist in trace amounts in uranium ores because their half lives are considerably shorter than the age of the earth so there has been enough time for these elements to largely disappear which would not be the case if the earth was only 6000 years old.
 
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BeyondET

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Why would an omniscient, omnipotent God create a world full of irrational people, and then ask those very same people to make a rational choice to believe in Him?

If you want people to make a rational choice then don't make them irrational... duh
Hmm so God created a world full of irrational people?
 
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BeyondET

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Which part of that statement would you like to question... whether people are irrational, or whether God created them?
You answered it, though why didn't your parents keep you from making irrational choices in your life?
 
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partinobodycular

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You answered it, though why didn't your parents keep you from making irrational choices in your life?

Sorry, I get confused easily, so let me ask again, are you questioning whether people are irrational, or whether God created them?
 
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BeyondET

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Sorry, I get confused easily, so let me ask again, are you questioning whether people are irrational, or whether God created them?
Do you believe God created people?
 
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BeyondET

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I'm willing to accept it as a possibility?
Amen to that my friend, imo man is from all the compounds and processes that constitutes dirt along with somethings beyond dirt.

Luke 18:27
And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
 
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