How old is the earth?

[BNR32FAN]

"The reason the six pre-Adam days were taken out of the calendar is because time is described differently in those Six Days of Genesis. "There was evening and morning" with no relationship to human time. Once we come to the progeny of Adam, the flow of time is totally in human terms. Adam and Eve live 130 years before having Seth. Seth lives 105 years before having Enosh, etc. (Genesis chapter 5). From Adam forward, the flow of time is totally human in concept. But prior to that time, it's an abstract concept: "Evening and morning." It's as if you're looking down on events from a viewpoint that is not intimately related to them, a cosmic view of time." (Schroeder)

I think this has to do with the event horizon of a black hole. I asked Schroeder about this and his answer was that he did not know.

The event horizon of a black hole is a crucial concept in astrophysics that defines the boundary beyond which nothing, not even light, can escape the gravitational pull of the black hole. It marks the point of no return for anything that gets too close to the black hole.

I apologize my friend but I don’t understand how Genesis 1 would be written in anything other than “human time” when it was specifically written for humans to understand. And I don’t understand what any of this has to do with black holes. Are you saying that there were six black holes? I also don’t understand what calendar the six days of creation were taken out of. Can you please clarify on that? And how can you claim that time was described differently in those six days when it’s described the same way we would describe it today? Each day of creation describes one day, one evening, and one morning. If these were epochs or ages then the term “there was evening and there was morning” wouldn’t have been included in the transcript for each day because they would have no place there. Evening and morning in the singular form has no relevance to epochs and ages.

 

[BNR32FAN]

From Adam forward, the flow of time is totally human in concept. But prior to that time, it's an abstract concept: "Evening and morning." It's as if you're looking down on events from a viewpoint that is not intimately related to them, a cosmic view of time." (Schroeder)

If you were looking down on these events from a cosmic viewpoint then there would’ve been evenings and mornings, plural form, if we were witnessing epochs or ages.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Because I don't have a PhD in either biology or physics I won't even try to address all these points. Hugh Ross does have a facebook page, and you could put your questions there.

He certainly does believe that the miracles actually took place and he doesn't try to explain them through science. He accepts that they were done by God who created science and therefore can do miracles that come from quite different eternal laws. Although (and this could be a bone of contention) he says that the extra day of Joshua, and the 40 minutes of Hezekiah were not because the earth changed its orbit, but was a miracle of light directly applied to the situation.

I heard an explanation about Joshua and the stopping of then sun from Dr Ross and he suggested that it could’ve been a longer portion of darkness rather than light that took place which could’ve been accomplished by a storm or heavy cloud cover which I thought was an interesting hypothesis since the cover of darkness can be very beneficial in battle and the cover from sunlight could also help the soldiers to keep cooler while they’re fighting, especially if it’s a particularly long battle. I don’t recall him saying anything about light being directly applied to the battlefield itself.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I heard an explanation about Joshua and the stopping of then sun from Dr Ross and he suggested that it could’ve been a longer portion of darkness rather than light that took place which could’ve been accomplished by a storm or heavy cloud cover which I thought was an interesting hypothesis since the cover of darkness can be very beneficial in battle and the cover from sunlight could also help the soldiers to keep cooler while they’re fighting, especially if it’s a particularly long battle. I don’t recall him saying anything about light being directly applied to the battlefield itself.

I think he gave the light theory as just one of the explanations. He says that the report that NASA was missing a day in their calculations was false, and that NASA asked him to do what he could to discount that bit of false news. However God enabled the battle to continue to its victorious conclusion, it was a miracle that would not have happened by natural means. It is interesting that he says that the phenomenon of the shadow of Hezekiah's hour glass going back 40 minutes, happened in exactly the same way and time in Babylon. He says that there is no reasonable explanation for why it was repeated there. God must have had a reason for doing that, but we are not given any information about it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Although we can speculate and discuss how God created the cosmos, debating on the meaning of the Hebrew word "yom" to mean either a 24 hour day or a longer epoch of time, while remaining consistent with what Genesis 1 actually says. But to say it took God 12 billion years to create Adam and Eve, is moving away from being consistent with what the Bible actually says about how they were created. While the other five days of creation could have taken billions of years each, the sixth day would have been much shorter in duration. I don't believe that the sixth day was billions of years in duration. Adam was created, tended the garden, named the animals, had surgery resulting in Eve's creation, and recovered from that surgery. So the sixth day could have taken up to a year or two to have all those things happen.

Technically the Bible doesn’t actually say that Adam cultivated the garden on day 6 and it is possible that he could’ve named 25000 animals in a day. It was Dr Ross that came up with the number of species back then being around 25000. I did the math and if Adam named one animal every 2 seconds he could’ve named 25000 animals in 14 hours. Another thing is that the Bible doesn’t say that Adam fully recovered from surgery on day 6 but if God was able to create Adam from dust in one day I’m confident that He could’ve healed Adam immediately. So everything that is recorded to have happened on day 6 could’ve actually taken place in 24 hours.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I think he gave the light theory as just one of the explanations. He says that the report that NASA was missing a day in their calculations was false, and that NASA asked him to do what he could to discount that bit of false news. However God enabled the battle to continue to its victorious conclusion, it was a miracle that would not have happened by natural means. It is interesting that he says that the phenomenon of the shadow of Hezekiah's hour glass going back 40 minutes, happened in exactly the same way and time in Babylon. He says that there is no reasonable explanation for why it was repeated there. God must have had a reason for doing that, but we are not given any information about it.

I’m not familiar with Hezekiah’s hourglass.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I think he gave the light theory as just one of the explanations. He says that the report that NASA was missing a day in their calculations was false, and that NASA asked him to do what he could to discount that bit of false news. However God enabled the battle to continue to its victorious conclusion, it was a miracle that would not have happened by natural means. It is interesting that he says that the phenomenon of the shadow of Hezekiah's hour glass going back 40 minutes, happened in exactly the same way and time in Babylon. He says that there is no reasonable explanation for why it was repeated there. God must have had a reason for doing that, but we are not given any information about it.

I thought his darkness explanation was quite compelling and completely plausible.

 

[Diamond72]

If you were looking down on these events from a cosmic viewpoint then there would’ve been evenings and mornings, plural form, if we were witnessing epochs or ages.

Everything is a copy of the first. I worked for a company that made Kitchen cabinets. One thing I did was to make templets. Everything is a copy of the original. Schroeder talks about this from the Hasidic viewpoint and Jonathan Cahn talks about this in his book: The Paradigm.

The Paradigm: The Ancient Blueprint That Holds the Mystery of Our Times​

by Jonathan Cahn

1. Cosmic Origins: Some philosophical and scientific viewpoints propose that the universe and all its elements originated from a common source, such as the Big Bang or a primordial state. In this sense, everything could be considered a manifestation or consequence of that initial event.
2. Archetypal Patterns: The statement might imply that certain archetypal patterns, concepts, or forms serve as foundational templates that recur throughout different domains, such as nature, culture, or human creativity.
3. Causal Relationships: It could signify the interconnectedness of cause and effect, where subsequent occurrences are influenced by, or even mirror, earlier events. This perspective can be seen in various fields, including history, science, and art.
4. Metaphysical or Spiritual Interpretations: In certain spiritual or metaphysical beliefs, the idea of a singular divine source or essence from which all things emanate is emphasized. This notion aligns with the concept that everything is derived from a fundamental and interconnected reality.
5. Evolution and Biological Inheritance: In the context of biology, the principle of common ancestry suggests that all life forms share a common origin. This idea is central to the understanding of how species have diversified and adapted over time.
6. Interconnectedness: From a holistic perspective, the statement could underscore the interconnected nature of existence, highlighting that no entity or phenomenon exists in isolation but is intertwined with others.

It's important to recognize that this statement represents a philosophical or conceptual viewpoint, and interpretations may vary among different disciplines and belief systems. While some interpretations might align with certain scientific, philosophical, or spiritual perspectives, others might view the statement as an oversimplification or an abstraction that doesn't fully capture the complexity of reality.

 

[Diamond72]

I’m not familiar with Hezekiah’s hourglass.

Isaiah 38:7-8 (NIV):

"This is the Lord's sign to you that the Lord will do what he has promised: I will make the shadow cast by the sun go back the ten steps it has gone down on the stairway of Ahaz." So the sunlight went back the ten steps it had gone down."

 

[Diamond72]

I apologize my friend but I don’t understand how Genesis 1 would be written in anything other than “human time” when it was specifically written for humans to understand.

Time as we know it was created on the fourth day. Genesis 1. We can ask what is time?

14And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to distinguish between the day and the night, and let them be signs to mark the seasons and days and years. 15And let them serve as lights in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the earth.” And it was so.

16God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night. And He made the stars as well.

17God set these lights in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the earth, 18to preside over the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

19And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

Time is a fundamental concept that plays a crucial role in our understanding of the universe and the events that occur within it. It is a dimension that measures the sequence of events, durations, and intervals between them. While time is a concept that we intuitively understand and experience in our daily lives, it also has complex implications in various scientific, philosophical, and cultural contexts. Here are a few key aspects of time:

1. Measurement of Change: Time provides a framework for measuring the changes that occur in the world. It allows us to describe the progression of events, such as the movement of objects, the occurrence of processes, and the passage of moments.
2. Linear and Directional: Time is often understood as flowing in a linear and irreversible manner, moving from the past through the present and into the future. This perception of time's direction is deeply ingrained in human experience.
3. Relativity: In modern physics, especially in Einstein's theory of relativity, time is not an absolute concept. It can be influenced by factors such as gravity and velocity, leading to phenomena like time dilation, where time can appear to pass differently for observers in different conditions.
4. Space-Time: Einstein's theory also introduced the concept of space-time, where time is interconnected with the three dimensions of space. This unified framework accounts for the interdependence of time and space and their combined influence on the behavior of matter and energy.
5. Philosophical Considerations: The nature of time has been a subject of philosophical inquiry for centuries. Philosophers explore questions about the nature of the present moment, the reality of the past and future, and the existence of an objective flow of time.
6. Cultural and Societal Perspectives: Different cultures and societies have varied ways of conceptualizing and measuring time. Calendars, clocks, and cultural practices shape our perception and organization of time.
7. Perception of Time: Our perception of time can be subjective and influenced by factors such as age, experiences, and mental states. Time can feel slow or fast depending on our circumstances and emotional states.
8. The Arrow of Time: The concept of the "arrow of time" refers to the one-way direction of time from past to present to future. This concept is linked to the irreversibility of certain processes, such as the increase of entropy in the universe.

In summary, time is a fundamental aspect of existence that underlies our experience of events and changes. While it is a familiar concept in our everyday lives, it also has profound implications in the realms of science, philosophy, and culture, shaping our understanding of the universe and our place within it.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Technically the Bible doesn’t actually say that Adam cultivated the garden on day 6 and it is possible that he could’ve named 25000 animals in a day. It was Dr Ross that came up with the number of species back then being around 25000. I did the math and if Adam named one animal every 2 seconds he could’ve named 25000 animals in 14 hours. Another thing is that the Bible doesn’t say that Adam fully recovered from surgery on day 6 but if God was able to create Adam from dust in one day I’m confident that He could’ve healed Adam immediately. So everything that is recorded to have happened on day 6 could’ve actually taken place in 24 hours.

Of course, that is the issue at debate, which may not be fully resolved, but will continue to go forward and backward over the issues around the old earth vs the young earth.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I’m not familiar with Hezekiah’s hourglass.

Did I saw hourglass? A senior moment on my part. It was his sundial.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I thought his darkness explanation was quite compelling and completely plausible.

So did I.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Everything is a copy of the first. I worked for a company that made Kitchen cabinets. One thing I did was to make templets. Everything is a copy of the original. Schroeder talks about this from the Hasidic viewpoint and Jonathan Cahn talks about this in his book: The Paradigm.

The Paradigm: The Ancient Blueprint That Holds the Mystery of Our Times​

by Jonathan Cahn

1. Cosmic Origins: Some philosophical and scientific viewpoints propose that the universe and all its elements originated from a common source, such as the Big Bang or a primordial state. In this sense, everything could be considered a manifestation or consequence of that initial event.
2. Archetypal Patterns: The statement might imply that certain archetypal patterns, concepts, or forms serve as foundational templates that recur throughout different domains, such as nature, culture, or human creativity.
3. Causal Relationships: It could signify the interconnectedness of cause and effect, where subsequent occurrences are influenced by, or even mirror, earlier events. This perspective can be seen in various fields, including history, science, and art.
4. Metaphysical or Spiritual Interpretations: In certain spiritual or metaphysical beliefs, the idea of a singular divine source or essence from which all things emanate is emphasized. This notion aligns with the concept that everything is derived from a fundamental and interconnected reality.
5. Evolution and Biological Inheritance: In the context of biology, the principle of common ancestry suggests that all life forms share a common origin. This idea is central to the understanding of how species have diversified and adapted over time.
6. Interconnectedness: From a holistic perspective, the statement could underscore the interconnected nature of existence, highlighting that no entity or phenomenon exists in isolation but is intertwined with others.

It's important to recognize that this statement represents a philosophical or conceptual viewpoint, and interpretations may vary among different disciplines and belief systems. While some interpretations might align with certain scientific, philosophical, or spiritual perspectives, others might view the statement as an oversimplification or an abstraction that doesn't fully capture the complexity of reality.

All this is, is a bunch of hypocritical mumbo jumbo that amounts to nothing. There’s no evidence of anything in any of this. It’s just a bunch of claims with no evidence to support it with no connection to the creation at all. This can’t even be considered to be evidence of anything because it’s a bunch of hypothetical presumptions.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Time as we know it was created on the fourth day. Genesis 1. We can ask what is time?

14And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to distinguish between the day and the night, and let them be signs to mark the seasons and days and years. 15And let them serve as lights in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the earth.” And it was so.

16God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night. And He made the stars as well.

17God set these lights in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the earth, 18to preside over the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

19And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

Time is a fundamental concept that plays a crucial role in our understanding of the universe and the events that occur within it. It is a dimension that measures the sequence of events, durations, and intervals between them. While time is a concept that we intuitively understand and experience in our daily lives, it also has complex implications in various scientific, philosophical, and cultural contexts. Here are a few key aspects of time:

1. Measurement of Change: Time provides a framework for measuring the changes that occur in the world. It allows us to describe the progression of events, such as the movement of objects, the occurrence of processes, and the passage of moments.
2. Linear and Directional: Time is often understood as flowing in a linear and irreversible manner, moving from the past through the present and into the future. This perception of time's direction is deeply ingrained in human experience.
3. Relativity: In modern physics, especially in Einstein's theory of relativity, time is not an absolute concept. It can be influenced by factors such as gravity and velocity, leading to phenomena like time dilation, where time can appear to pass differently for observers in different conditions.
4. Space-Time: Einstein's theory also introduced the concept of space-time, where time is interconnected with the three dimensions of space. This unified framework accounts for the interdependence of time and space and their combined influence on the behavior of matter and energy.
5. Philosophical Considerations: The nature of time has been a subject of philosophical inquiry for centuries. Philosophers explore questions about the nature of the present moment, the reality of the past and future, and the existence of an objective flow of time.
6. Cultural and Societal Perspectives: Different cultures and societies have varied ways of conceptualizing and measuring time. Calendars, clocks, and cultural practices shape our perception and organization of time.
7. Perception of Time: Our perception of time can be subjective and influenced by factors such as age, experiences, and mental states. Time can feel slow or fast depending on our circumstances and emotional states.
8. The Arrow of Time: The concept of the "arrow of time" refers to the one-way direction of time from past to present to future. This concept is linked to the irreversibility of certain processes, such as the increase of entropy in the universe.

In summary, time is a fundamental aspect of existence that underlies our experience of events and changes. While it is a familiar concept in our everyday lives, it also has profound implications in the realms of science, philosophy, and culture, shaping our understanding of the universe and our place within it.

The days, evenings and mornings began on the first day. Those are specific references to time. When people say that time didn’t exist during any part of the creation process they’re pulling that out of nowhere. It’s not scriptural and it’s not even proven science, it’s just a hypothetical assumption with nothing to support it. If time didn’t exist during the creation process then the universe couldn’t be 13 billion years old because the aging process doesn’t begin without time.

 

[Diamond72]

When people say that time didn’t exist during any part of the creation process they’re pulling that out of nowhere.

Nahmanides writes: "Misheyesh, yitfos bo zman" - from the moment that matter formed from this substance-less substance, time grabs hold. Time is created at the beginning. But time "grabs hold" when matter condenses from the substance-less substance of the big bang creation. When matter condenses, congeals, coalesces, out of this substance so thin it has no material substance, that's when the biblical clock starts.

 

[Diamond72]

All this is, is a bunch of hypocritical mumbo jumbo that amounts to nothing.

Kaballah has been around for a long time to be considered nothing. Perhaps my explanation is mumbo jumbo. The Hasidic Rabbi explains this a lot better than I do. But if you want to think that a best-selling book is mumbo jumbo, that is fine with me. Even walt disney was a master in the use of archetypes and Carl Jung did a lot to explain what archtypes are. Jesus used parable, was that mumbo jumbo also?

The Bible contains numerous archetypes, recurring symbols, themes, or character types that hold deep and universal meanings. Archetypes are often found in literature, mythology, and religious texts, including the Bible. These archetypes can provide insight into human nature, spirituality, and the human experience.

Disney has built theme parks in USA, Japan & Hong Kong. I think this is a testimony as to how universal symbols can be and how all people can relate to them.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Did I saw hourglass? A senior moment on my part. It was his sundial.

Ahh I’m still not familiar with it. The OT isn’t my strongest subject.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Kaballah has been around for a long time to be considered nothing. Perhaps my explanation is mumbo jumbo. The Hasidic Rabbi explains this a lot better than I do. But if you want to think that a best-selling book is mumbo jumbo, that is fine with me. Even walt disney was a master in the use of archetypes and Carl Jung did a lot to explain what archtypes are. Jesus used parable, was that mumbo jumbo also?

The Bible contains numerous archetypes, recurring symbols, themes, or character types that hold deep and universal meanings. Archetypes are often found in literature, mythology, and religious texts, including the Bible. These archetypes can provide insight into human nature, spirituality, and the human experience.

Disney has built theme parks in USA, Japan & Hong Kong. I think this is a testimony as to how universal symbols can be and how all people can relate to them.

No and I apologize I didn’t mean that your explanation was mumbo jumbo and I should’ve posted that more clearly. Please accept my most sincere apologies I meant no disrespect to you that was in reference to the source you were quoting. I’m replying at work and often have to make my replies quickly so sometimes they don’t appear to be as polite as I intended them to be.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Kaballah has been around for a long time to be considered nothing. Perhaps my explanation is mumbo jumbo. The Hasidic Rabbi explains this a lot better than I do. But if you want to think that a best-selling book is mumbo jumbo, that is fine with me. Even walt disney was a master in the use of archetypes and Carl Jung did a lot to explain what archtypes are. Jesus used parable, was that mumbo jumbo also?

The Bible contains numerous archetypes, recurring symbols, themes, or character types that hold deep and universal meanings. Archetypes are often found in literature, mythology, and religious texts, including the Bible. These archetypes can provide insight into human nature, spirituality, and the human experience.

Disney has built theme parks in USA, Japan & Hong Kong. I think this is a testimony as to how universal symbols can be and how all people can relate to them.

Can you please demonstrate some of the symbolic messages in the scriptures that pertain to creation?