How old is the earth?

[BNR32FAN]

granted. Not all genealogists agree with Bishop Ussher's calculation. There is evidence of humans living in North America at least 20,000 years ago. Maybe there are some who can explain the apparent contradition between the 4,000 years and the much longer period.

Granted but interbreeding is not evolution.

All the other days show a beginning and an end, but the seventh day shows a beginning but no end. That has to be significant to show that the seventh day is still going on.

Perhaps we need to accept that the plain wording of the Scripture reference in Revelation should be accepted as true, regardless of whether we understand or not how it is going to happen.

One thing you have to keep in mind is there’s a huge difference between evidence and proof.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Granted but interbreeding is not evolution.

Yes I agree but we don’t actually see any evidence of evolution. We don’t see evidence that animals changed from one species to another. We see one species and another species but no missing link of the evolution process between those two.

 

[BNR32FAN]

All the other days show a beginning and an end, but the seventh day shows a beginning but no end. That has to be significant to show that the seventh day is still going on.

Not if you understand the usage of the word Yom. Can you show me one example of the word Yom linked to a number value being used in the Bible where it doesn’t refer to a 24 hour period? I’ve looked and I can’t find any example in the OT.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Actually I made an error. I meant to say how come there is no evidence of evolution since Adam was created. Even if Adam was created 300,000 years ago, there should be some, even slight evidence of evolution, if it actually occurred. Also, for a theory to be scientific fact it was to be replicated in the laboratory. To date, no scientist has been able to do that, except some minor changes in bacteria. So if only very minor changes in bacteria can be replicated in the strict environment of a laboratory, what are the odds of anything happening in the uncontrolled natural environment where there are so many wildcard factors? My odds are infinity to one.

Yeah that’s been my thoughts as well. We can’t even cause mutations to result in a new species in a controlled environment so if the evolution process takes millions of years or whatever ridiculous number they claim then how did life forms survive that long in a natural before they were able to move around to protect themselves from the harsh environment and find food sources? Were they just lucky enough to have such an environment that didn’t run out of food or become too hot or cold for them to survive for millions of years?

 

[FaithT]

granted. Not all genealogists agree with Bishop Ussher's calculation. There is evidence of humans living in North America at least 20,000 years ago. Maybe there are some who can explain the apparent contradition between the 4,000 years and the much longer period.

Granted but interbreeding is not evolution.

All the other days show a beginning and an end, but the seventh day shows a beginning but no end. That has to be significant to show that the seventh day is still going on.

Perhaps we need to accept that the plain wording of the Scripture reference in Revelation should be accepted as true, regardless of whether we understand or not how it is going to happen.

Yes, I’d like to read an explanation for the evidence of human remains from 20,000 years ago being discovered. And not the same one about dating methods being unreliable.

 

[All Becomes New]

Is this not in reference to the universe?

That does not answer my question. The people at that time were not concerned with the age of the universe whatsoever. That's the part you have to explain that if the people at the time were not thinking about the text saying what the age of the universe was, why should we view the text that way?

 

[AlexB23]

So, I don't know where to start, but could the 7 days represent periods of time, of varying length?

Intepretation of Genesis
Day 1: Let there be light. This means God created the universe in a flash of light, which can still be seen today as the cosmic microwave background. This happened about 14 billion years B.C.
Day 2: The sky formed. God commanded the sky to form, which could mean that components of the earth's atmosphere and solar system itself were present in a gaseous cloud of gigantic proportions, trillions of miles across. These would coalesce and turn into the Earth on the 3rd day.
Day 3: The Earth formed. God commanded the earth to form, so the nebula collapsed, and rocky objects began to form in the solar system.
Day 4: The sun appeared. God commanded the sun to form. This could mean the atmosphere of the earth was opaque, and finally let in the first rays of sunlight, as a lot of volcanoes belched out smoke into the atmosphere before this period.
Day 5: The first life formed. God created life on earth, which probably started out as bacteria. This happened about 3.8 billion years ago.
Day 6: The animals formed. God then created multicellular life. This happened about 500-600 million years ago.
Day 7: First humans. God created man. While creatures appearing to be human may have been around for hundreds of thousands of years, the first humans to have a civilization happened in around 5000 BC in Sumeria, so Adam and Eve were created shortly before the first recorded civilizations, after the last ice age.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The people at that time were not concerned with the age of the universe whatsoever.

This is just a claim you’ve made. There’s nothing to support this statement. The verses I posted were specifically about when the sun, the moon, and the stars were created. That undoubtedly proves that the scriptures were in fact teaching exactly when the universe was created.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That does not answer my question. The people at that time were not concerned with the age of the universe whatsoever. That's the part you have to explain that if the people at the time were not thinking about the text saying what the age of the universe was, why should we view the text that way?

I don’t see how it doesn’t answer your question. Exodus 20:11 is a direct reference to the creation account in Genesis 1 and 2.

 

[BNR32FAN]

For anyone who wishes to prove me wrong here’s a link to Strong’s Concordance.

H3117 - yôm - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

H3117 - יוֹם yôwm, yome; from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figurative (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverb):—age, always, chronicals...

www.blueletterbible.org

Simply type H3117 in the box that says “Use Strong’s Concordance” and it will pull up every single verse that the Hebrew word Yom is used in the Old Testament. Then simply find a verse that uses the word Yom with a number value attached to it like for example “in 7 Yoms or on the 5th Yom” that doesn’t refer to a 24 hour period and I will concede and admit that I’m wrong. The word Yom appears 1931 times in the OT so there should be plenty of examples of it being used as people are suggesting it’s used in the creation account but I’m going to tell you right now there aren’t any examples used in that manner. Just like we would never use the word “day” in that manner. We would never say on the third day or 3 days ago or I made this in 3 days while meaning anything other than a literal 24 hour period. The Hebrews used the word Yom exactly the same way we do. The only uses of the word Yom your going to see that don’t refer to a 24 hour period will be be preceded by words like “in the Yom of” or in the Yom that” which could be translated as in the time of or in the time that someone either lived or ruled or a time that something took place but never once is it used in that manner when it has a number value attached to it.

 

[All Becomes New]

This is just a claim you’ve made. There’s nothing to support this statement. The verses I posted were specifically about when the sun, the moon, and the stars were created. That undoubtedly proves that the scriptures were in fact teaching exactly when the universe was created.

It's not just a claim. It's based on a lot of study from people like Dr. Heiser based on what else was written from similar cultures. It's not just a made-up thing to destroy the concept that the earth is 6,000 years old. What do you do about the creation accounts that predate the one in Genesis that are also found throughout the Bible like in Isaiah and the Psalms and such? Are you just going to say those don't count?

 

[AlexB23]

For anyone who wishes to prove me wrong here’s a link to Strong’s Concordance.

H3117 - yôm - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

H3117 - יוֹם yôwm, yome; from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figurative (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverb):—age, always, chronicals...

www.blueletterbible.org

Simply type H3117 in the box that says “Use Strong’s Concordance” and it will pull up every single verse that the Hebrew word Yom is used in the Old Testament. Then simply find a verse that uses the word Yom with a number value attached to it like for example “in 7 Yoms or on the 5th Yom” that doesn’t refer to a 24 hour period and I will concede and admit that I’m wrong. The word Yom appears 1931 times in the OT so there should be plenty of examples of it being used as people are suggesting it’s used in the creation account but I’m going to tell you right now there aren’t any examples used in that manner. Just like we would never use the word “day” in that manner. We would never say on the third day or 3 days ago or I made this in 3 days while meaning anything other than a literal 24 hour period. The Hebrews used the word Yom exactly the same way we do. The only uses of the word Yom your going to see that don’t refer to a 24 hour period will be be preceded by words like “in the Yom of” or in the Yom that” which could be translated as in the time of or in the time that someone either lived or ruled or a time that something took place but never once is it used in that manner when it has a number value attached to it.

I understand BNR32. So, the Hebrew word "Yom" means an unspecified duration or period of time, except when a number precedes it? So, if I may ask, you support 7 actual days of creation (7 days x 24 hour periods, or Young Earth Creationism), and not Old Earth Creationism where our planet is nearly 5 billion years old? I support the latter, as data collected shows our Earth is old. Even the results from carbon dating of mammoth bones are a few times older than a 6,000 year old earth. And as mammoths were from around ~500,000 BC, and wiped out entirely by humans by ~2,000 BC, therefore the 7 days are not of 24 hour lengths, or even of 1000 years per day. Some days (eons) could last millions of years.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I understand BNR32. So, the Hebrew word "Yom" means an unspecified duration or period of time, except when a number precedes it? So, if I may ask, you support 7 actual days of creation (7 days x 24 hour periods, or Young Earth Creationism), and not Old Earth Creationism where our planet is nearly 5 billion years old? I support the latter, as data collected shows our Earth is old. Even the results from carbon dating of mammoth bones are a few times older than a 6,000 year old earth. And as mammoths were from around ~500,000 BC, and wiped out entirely by humans by ~2,000 BC, therefore the 7 days are not of 24 hour lengths, or even of 1000 years per day. Some days (eons) could last millions of years.

Yes I’m a YEC believer.

 

[AlexB23]

Yes I’m a YEC believer.

I understand, and will not judge you, as Christians must be supportive of each other. But, here is a cool thought. When I read at age 10 in the Astronomy Magazine and elsewhere that the universe is billions of years old, instead of thousands of years old, that actually made me solidify my faith in God even more. The reason for this is that if the universe is 13.8 billion years old, and earth is 4.6 billion years old, it makes me realize how eternal God is, and my brain can't even begin to process how long a time even a million years is. Even "let there be light" humbled me, as astronomers found the first light from the Big Bang (Cosmic Microwave background), and from the first stars when the Universe was only a hundred or so million years old (about <13.7 billion years ago). A french priest and astronomer, Georges Lemaître proposed the Big Bang theory, which states the universe had a beginning, which aligns perfectly with the Bible, as Genesis marked a beginning to creation itself.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I understand BNR32. So, the Hebrew word "Yom" means an unspecified duration or period of time, except when a number precedes it? So, if I may ask, you support 7 actual days of creation (7 days x 24 hour periods, or Young Earth Creationism), and not Old Earth Creationism where our planet is nearly 5 billion years old? I support the latter, as data collected shows our Earth is old. Even the results from carbon dating of mammoth bones are a few times older than a 6,000 year old earth. And as mammoths were from around ~500,000 BC, and wiped out entirely by humans by ~2,000 BC, therefore the 7 days are not of 24 hour lengths, or even of 1000 years per day. Some days (eons) could last millions of years.

I don’t trust carbon dating and thermoluminescence dating. Carbon dating has been proven to be inaccurate numerous times and we have no way of confirming thermoluminescence dating other than by examining items that are a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the half-life for crystalline decay because we have nothing that we can actually confirm the age that is old enough to accurately calibrate the method. The best they can do right now is base their dates on geologists best guesses.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I understand, and will not judge you, as Christians must be supportive of each other. But, here is a cool thought. When I read at age 10 in the Astronomy Magazine and elsewhere that the universe is billions of years old, instead of thousands of years old, that actually made me solidify my faith in God even more. The reason for this is that if the universe is 13.8 billion years old, and earth is 4.6 billion years old, it makes me realize how eternal God is, and my brain can't even begin to process how long a time even a million years is. Even "let there be light" humbled me, as astronomers found the first light from the Big Bang (Cosmic Microwave background), and from the first stars when the Universe was only a hundred or so million years old (about <13.7 billion years ago). A french priest and astronomer, Georges Lemaître proposed the Big Bang theory, which states the universe had a beginning, which aligns perfectly with the Bible, as Genesis marked a beginning to creation itself.

Did you know that even tho the universe is claimed to be 13 billion years old we can actually see 46 billion light years away? How is that? How can we see light that has traveled for 46 billion years to reach us if the universe is only 13 billion years old?

 

[AlexB23]

I don’t trust carbon dating and thermoluminescence dating. Carbon dating has been proven to be inaccurate numerous times and we have no way of confirming thermoluminescence dating other than by examining items that are a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the half-life for crystalline decay because we have nothing that we can actually confirm the age that is old enough to accurately calibrate the method. The best they can do right now is base their dates on geologists best guesses.

Yeah, there are some inaccuracies with carbon and thermoluminescence dating, but estimating the age of mineral deposits using strata of rocks have shown that even the dinosaurs and prehistoric plants lived millions of years ago, whose fossils remain many layers below the earth. Nowadays, these fossils have even been crushed into oil, which are used to power most of our cars, buses, ships and aircraft in 2023. The process to form oil would physically take thousands, if not millions of years. For estimating the age of space, scientists use mathematical formulas and the properties of really far away stars to get an estimate of the universe's age to be 13.8 billion years, plus or minus a few tens of millions of years.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yeah, there are some inaccuracies with carbon and thermoluminescence dating, but estimating the age of mineral deposits using strata of rocks have shown that even the dinosaurs and prehistoric plants lived millions of years ago, whose fossils remain many layers below the earth. Nowadays, these fossils have even been crushed into oil, which are used to power most of our cars, buses, ships and aircraft in 2023. The process to form oil would physically take thousands, if not millions of years. For estimating the age of space, scientists use mathematical formulas and the properties of really far away stars to get an estimate of the universe's age to be 13.8 billion years, plus or minus a few tens of millions of years.

One thing I’ve noticed is that the technological advancements of man seem very disproportionate if man, as we are today, homo sapien sapien has existed for 300,000 years as they claim. Take the invention of the wheel for example, historians say that the wheel was invented around 3500 BC. So that’s 5500 years ago. It seems strange to men that for 295,000 years the simple concept of the wheel completely escaped man yet 5500 years after finally learning the wheel he was able to achieve everything we have today. I mean the concept of a wheel can be observed in nature, seeing a rock or a log roll down a hill and for 98.2% of man’s existence he never caught onto that concept having seen it countless times and by countless people throughout the 295000 years of man’s existence. Yet In just the last 1.8% of his existence he not only managed to grasp the concept of the wheel but advanced medicine, computers, automobiles, worldwide flight, worldwide communications, space travel, smart phones, etc, etc. Doesn’t that seem a bit disproportionate to you? Now if you put man’s existence at 4000BC then it seems a lot more reasonable. This is just something I’ve noticed.

 

[AlexB23]

One thing I’ve noticed is that the technological advancements of man seem very disproportionate if man, as we are today, homo sapien sapien has existed for 300,000 years as they claim. Take the invention of the wheel for example, historians say that the wheel was invented around 3500 BC. So that’s 5500 years ago. It seems strange to men that for 295,000 years the simple concept of the wheel completely escaped man yet 5500 years after finally learning the wheel he was able to achieve everything we have today. I mean the concept of a wheel can be observed in nature, seeing a rock or a log roll down a hill and for 98.2% of man’s existence he never caught onto that concept having seen it countless times and by countless people throughout the 295000 years of man’s existence. Yet In just the last 1.8% of his existence he not only managed to grasp the concept of the wheel but advanced medicine, computers, automobiles, worldwide flight, worldwide communications, space travel, smart phones, etc, etc. Doesn’t that seem a bit disproportionate to you? Now if you put man’s existence at 4000BC then it seems a lot more reasonable. This is just something I’ve noticed.

I asked that question before to a fellow Christian classmate, named Ezra, in high school about seven years ago. Even if humans were only around for 6000 years, electricity has only been around for a little over a century, so our electrical innovation timeline is only ~1.7% of 4000 BC history as well, and the internet for only <0.5% of history. But we were born in the 20th or even 21st century, and a high probability at that, as most of the population growth happened during the 20th and 21st centuries. So maybe we were chosen to live in the 21st century, to spread the gospel using modern tech? Also, without modern technology from the last century, we would have never been able to show that the universe is finite in age. So, we proved Genesis 1:3 back in the 1920s that the universe had a beginning. Before that, during the prior years before the 1920s, people believed the universe had an infinite age, which didn't line up the Bible. So, technology is proving the Bible in more ways than ever before.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Not if you understand the usage of the word Yom. Can you show me one example of the word Yom linked to a number value being used in the Bible where it doesn’t refer to a 24 hour period? I’ve looked and I can’t find any example in the OT.

The terms "evening" and "morning" are not number values, so "day" in these instances could quite easily mean "epochs" and still be Scripturally accurate.