How old is the earth?

[All Becomes New]

Not everything in the Bible is literal. See e.g. If your right eye causes you to sin, GOUGE it out.

That's fine. So why is Genesis 1-2 literal?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why is everything in the Bible literal?

Everything isn’t literal on the Bible but the verses that are metaphorical are very obvious.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That's fine. So why is Genesis 1-2 literal?

Because it has no metaphorical attributes or applications and is referenced on other passages that are also not metaphorically written like Exodus 20:11 for example.

 

[All Becomes New]

Because it has no metaphorical attributes or applications and is referenced on other passages that are also not metaphorically written like Exodus 20:11 for example.

Do you know Hebrew?

 

[tonychanyt]

That's fine. So why is Genesis 1-2 literal?

I tend to take Scriptures literally first and see. You are not obligated to do that.

 

[All Becomes New]

I tend to take Scriptures literally first and see. You are not obligated to do that.

How do you decide?

 

[tonychanyt]

How do you decide?

Good question.

I weigh the different pieces of evidence by following A Denomination-Free, Disciplined, Logical, and Probabilistic Approach to Biblical Hermeneutics.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Do you know Hebrew?

No but I know how to use a lexicon.

 

[All Becomes New]

No but I know how to use a lexicon.

So do I. And I disagree that the creation account must be literal 24-hour days. Dr. Michael Heiser agrees with me and he knows Hebrew better than both of us.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So do I. And I disagree that the creation account must be literal 24-hour days. Dr. Michael Heiser agrees with me and he knows Hebrew better than both of us.

Let me guess is it because the definition of the word Yom can mean and age or time? That’s often the typical argument and what many people fail to understand is that it depends on how the word is used grammatically.

 

[All Becomes New]

Let me guess is it because the definition of the word Yom can mean and age or time?

That is part of it. The other part, as Dr. Heiser say, is that people thought about these things before they put it in script, and there are creation accounts that pre-date Genesis, and the people reading the text at that time would be baffled that we are trying to come up with theories on the age of the earth based on Genesis.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That is part of it. The other part, as Dr. Heiser say, is that people thought about these things before they put it in script, and there are creation accounts that pre-date Genesis, and the people reading the text at that time would be baffled that we are trying to come up with theories on the age of the earth based on Genesis.

Well I can’t attest to other writings that I’m not aware of perhaps you’re referring to Enoch I don’t know. I decided not to read Enoch because I didn’t want to confuse parts of it with the canonized scripture. But as for the usage of the word Yom the Israelites used the word pretty much the same way we use it today. Like if I were to say it took me 6 days to build a storage shed you wouldn’t expect that I’m referring to 6 ages or 6 unspecified amounts of time. You would naturally conclude that I meant 6 literal 24 hour days. But if I were to say back in my dad’s day people were more polite surely you would conclude that I was not referring to a 24 hour period of time but instead during the age or period of time that my dad lived. The Bible uses the word Yom in the same manner and one thing that is consistent in the usage of the word Yom is that when it is used in reference to a number value it is always referring to a number of 24 hour periods. There are numerous examples of this in Leviticus concerning the laws and Sabbaths. People who seek to mix science and the scriptures ignore the proper usage of the word and insist that in the case of creation that the word Yom means age, epoch, or time but in every single other usage of the word in the scriptures when used in reference to a number value it is never once used to imply anything other than a 24 hour period of time.

 

[All Becomes New]

Well I can’t attest to other writings that I’m not aware of perhaps you’re referring to Enoch I don’t know. I decided not to read Enoch because I didn’t want to confuse parts of it with the canonized scripture. But as for the usage of the word Yom the Israelites used the word pretty much the same way we use it today. Like if I were to say it took me 6 days to build a storage shed you wouldn’t expect that I’m referring to 6 ages or 6 unspecified amounts of time. You would naturally conclude that I meant 6 literal 24 hour days. But if I were to say back in my dad’s day people were more polite surely you would conclude that I was not referring to a 24 hour period of time but instead during the age or period of time that my dad lived. The Bible uses the word Yom in the same manner and one thing that is consistent in the usage of the word Yom is that when it is used in reference to a number value it is always referring to a number of 24 hour periods. There are numerous examples of this in Leviticus concerning the laws and Sabbaths. People who seek to mix science and the scriptures ignore the proper usage of the word and insist that in the case of creation that the word Yom means age, epoch, or time but in every single other usage of the word in the scriptures when used in reference to a number value it is never once used to imply anything other than a 24 hour period of time.

How do you account for the hermeneutics that people at the time were in no way thinking about the age of the universe?

 

[Halbhh]

How do you account for the hermeneutics that people at the time were in no way thinking about the age of the universe?

It's a good point: it's unavoidably clear if we truly listen to Exodus chapters 19-20 (the full passage) that the entire and only meaning of Exodus 20:11 is God giving profound emphasis to Israel to keep the Sabbath (as God Himself repeatedly emphasizes in a special way (by itself to mark the faithful) in many places in the Old Testament, perhaps more than 10 times, specially to be a sign of his people) --

-- so He says in verse 11 that He Himself rested on the 7th day, and made it holy, and therefore they (Israel) should emulate Him in this!

That's about keeping the Sabbath, not the age of the Earth....

Just one of many examples of the very special emphasis of keeping the Sabbath in particular, above other signs:

1 This is what the Lord says:

“Maintain justice
and do what is right,
for my salvation is close at hand
and my righteousness will soon be revealed.
2 Blessed is the one who does this—
the person who holds it fast,
who keeps the Sabbath without desecrating it,
and keeps their hands from doing any evil.”
3 Let no foreigner who is bound to the Lord say,
“The Lord will surely exclude me from his people.”
And let no eunuch complain,
“I am only a dry tree.”
4 For this is what the Lord says:

“To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths,
who choose what pleases me
and hold fast to my covenant—
5 to them I will give within my temple and its walls
a memorial and a name
better than sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
that will endure forever.
-- Isaiah 56

I want to say to anyone have faith in God -- so to truly listen we must begin at the start of this passage, and having read all of chapter 19 then keep reading in 20:

Exodus 19 NIV

It's such an amazing passage. How could we help people just purely read and listen?

 

[BNR32FAN]

How do you account for the hermeneutics that people at the time were in no way thinking about the age of the universe?

“Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭14‬-‭19‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Is this not in reference to the universe?

 

[FaithT]

Incongruity. I go by KISS, keep it simple. Science is science and bible is bible. I believe there are no contradictions and no one can prove that there are. It is pretty clear that there is a lot we do not know or understand.

So how old do you believe the universe is?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Nope, In every single passage referring to God’s rest it is referred to in the past tense, not present tense. That should’ve been an easy indicator to spot.

Does that mean that God is still creating new components to the universe and our world? Or is He still resting from creating, and is now active in bringing about mankind's redemption? Also, how come there has been evidence of evolution since Adam was created, seeing that he could have been created as much as a million years ago? It seems that the animals he named are no different to what they are today. The thing that is different about the seventh day is that unlike the previous six where there was a start and finish to the days, there is a start to the seventh but no finish, which suggests that God started His seventh day rest and has not stopped since. Perhaps His rest will end when He folds up the universe, destroys this world and creates a new universe and world for the redeemed to inhabit.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Does that mean that God is still creating new components to the universe and our world?

I don’t know, the scriptures don’t really say if He continued creating after the seventh day.

Or is He still resting from creating, and is now active in bringing about mankind's redemption?

He’s definitely active in bringing about mankind’s redemption but I’m not aware of any scriptures that tell us whether or not He went back to creating after He rested.

Also, how come there has been evidence of evolution since Adam was created, seeing that he could have been created as much as a million years ago?

Actually there is no evidence of Adam being created millions of years ago because the scriptures specifically tell us thru Adam’s descendants all the way to Christ was 4,000 years. Furthermore even scientists only put homo sapien sapiens dating back to 300,000 years ago.

It seems that the animals he named are no different to what they are today.

Maybe but there might be some slight differences. We do have a lot of new species now that didn’t exist at creation. Like for example chihuahuas and poodles resulted from interbreeding of different types of dogs. So I would imagine that over the last 6,000 other animals most likely did the same.

The thing that is different about the seventh day is that unlike the previous six where there was a start and finish to the days, there is a start to the seventh but no finish, which suggests that God started His seventh day rest and has not stopped since.

If God continued in His rest on the seventh day then it wouldn’t say that He rested (past tense) on the seventh day if you’re translating the Hebrew word Yom as meaning an age or an epoch. Because if we were still in that epoch or age then He would still be resting (present tense). Because His rest is described in the past tense it indicates that the seventh day took place in the past, not the present.

Perhaps His rest will end when He folds up the universe, destroys this world and creates a new universe and world for the redeemed to inhabit.

Some passages seem to indicate that this world will be recreated into the New Earth. I’m not certain, the prophetic scriptures are not something that I spend a lot of time trying to decipher because in my opinion they’re too ambiguous to base any sort of doctrines on.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I don’t know, the scriptures don’t really say if He continued creating after the seventh day.

He’s definitely active in bringing about mankind’s redemption but I’m not aware of any scriptures that tell us whether or not He went back to creating after He rested.

Actually there is no evidence of Adam being created millions of years ago because the scriptures specifically tell us thru Adam’s descendants all the way to Christ was 4,000 years. Furthermore even scientists only put homo sapien sapiens dating back to 300,000 years ago.

granted. Not all genealogists agree with Bishop Ussher's calculation. There is evidence of humans living in North America at least 20,000 years ago. Maybe there are some who can explain the apparent contradition between the 4,000 years and the much longer period.

Maybe but there might be some slight differences. We do have a lot of new species now that didn’t exist at creation. Like for example chihuahuas and poodles resulted from interbreeding of different types of dogs. So I would imagine that over the last 6,000 other animals most likely did the same.

Granted but interbreeding is not evolution.

If God continued in His rest on the seventh day then it wouldn’t say that He rested (past tense) on the seventh day if you’re translating the Hebrew word Yom as meaning an age or an epoch. Because if we were still in that epoch or age then He would still be resting (present tense). Because His rest is described in the past tense it indicates that the seventh day took place in the past, not the present.

All the other days show a beginning and an end, but the seventh day shows a beginning but no end. That has to be significant to show that the seventh day is still going on.

Some passages seem to indicate that this world will be recreated into the New Earth. I’m not certain, the prophetic scriptures are not something that I spend a lot of time trying to decipher because in my opinion they’re too ambiguous to base any sort of doctrines on.

Perhaps we need to accept that the plain wording of the Scripture reference in Revelation should be accepted as true, regardless of whether we understand or not how it is going to happen.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Actually there is no evidence of Adam being created millions of years ago because the scriptures specifically tell us thru Adam’s descendants all the way to Christ was 4,000 years. Furthermore even scientists only put homo sapien sapiens dating back to 300,000 years ago.

Actually I made an error. I meant to say how come there is no evidence of evolution since Adam was created. Even if Adam was created 300,000 years ago, there should be some, even slight evidence of evolution, if it actually occurred. Also, for a theory to be scientific fact it was to be replicated in the laboratory. To date, no scientist has been able to do that, except some minor changes in bacteria. So if only very minor changes in bacteria can be replicated in the strict environment of a laboratory, what are the odds of anything happening in the uncontrolled natural environment where there are so many wildcard factors? My odds are infinity to one.