How old is the earth?

[FaithT]

Hmmm....well, though each individual pastor is always going to have different emphasis on different things, and so every individual church is therefore somewhat unique in what is preached in terms of emphasis and what's chosen to be preached on, and more....so that you'd have to visit an individual church to find out what it's like and cannot (even for a Catholic church) be sure it will be a certain way, I'd suggest to try out an ELCA church near you just in case it's doing well, as many will be. Generally they are theologically conservative, preaching to help us all be working to do as Christ taught we should do, as He Himself specifically instructed

19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

So, on most Sundays, the great majority of ELCA pastors will do just that (we had many visit during an interim). After hearing Christ's words in the gospel reading, the sermon is then on us living as He taught us to do, obeying His commands. Putting His teaching into practice.
You can expect that in an ELCA Lutheran church. (and should never settle for less of course -- no matter what church type, from a-z, if that isn't happening, then leave to find a church that does as Christ said and teaches all He commanded, that we should do as He commanded in our lives)

We don’t have an ELCA near here. The closest ELCA congregation is dwindling and farther than I’m willing to drive anyway. Plus, my husband just started going to church with me, which he never did except for Christmas and Easter. He will never become a Catholic.

 

[Halbhh]

We don’t have an ELCA near here. The closest ELCA congregation is dwindling and farther than I’m willing to drive anyway. Plus, my husband just started going to church with me, which he never did except for Christmas and Easter. He will never become a Catholic.

Ok, well, there will still be each individual church being a little different and each pastor being a little different, so that different churches in the same denomination can be quite different from each other. You could say "Let's try out this church over here."

 

[FaithT]

Ok, well, there will still be each individual church being a little different and each pastor being a little different, so that different churches in the same denomination can be quite different from each other. You could say "Let's try out this church over here."

Yeah. Now my favorite pastor left for a new job so it might be different From what I’m used to.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What’s the title of the video? I can’t see the title in the link you posted, just a black box that says oops try using YouTube kids.

If you go to the main Youtube page and type "Hugh Ross" in the search pane, all his videos will come up. There are two fascinating debates between him - one is with Dr. Kent Hovind, and the other is with a young earth Astrophycist, Dr Jason Lisle. Both put their evidence supporting their positions and we can decide which is the most viable according to Scripture. There are two debates with Dr Hovind, whose PhD is in education, and Eric Hovind who runs an apologetics ministry I found both Dr and Mr Hovind, through the pitch of their voice and rapidity of speech appeared to have difficulty being able to maintain their position, while Dr Ross remained calm and collected in his responses. I think that Dr Ross appeared more confident in his position than the others. But when the two Astrophysicists had their debate, both appeared quite confident in their respective positions and the debate got quite technical at times.

I think it all came down to how the word "yom" is interpreted in Genesis 1 and 2. The young earth proponents were adamant that the Scripture meant "yom" to be a 24 hour day. Dr Ross maintained that Genesis 1 and 2 were different to all the other references to "day". Also in day 6 he noted that the activities that Adam did during that time would have taken much more than a 24 hour day. I found that interesting and persuasive from a common sense point of view. When you think that Adam had to tend the garden, which takes some time, name all the animals (around 25,000 different species), come to the point where the animals didn't give him the companionship he needed, went through surgery to have God use a part of his side to create Eve, then spend time recovering from the surgery, It is obvious that all this took a lot longer than 24 hours.

One thing I wish to note is that Dr Hovind accused Dr Ross of heresy and being part of a cult. I think that he lost the debate at that point. Dr Ross made the point that whether the earth is young or old it is not a salvation issue. It was acknowledged in the other debates that the exchanges were respectful and non accusative and not hateful, and cultishness and heresy never came into those discussions.

However, you can view these debates for yourself and come to your own conclusion fo whether Dr Ross or the young-earth proponents views are more viable than the other.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

You're doing a lot of guessing when you insist on conclusions that are of the form -- "day does not mean day" in Gen 1 or Ex 20:8-11, "morning and evening are not one day" in Gen 1, and "we are getting bad information since Moses did not understand all of science".

In Dan 8 -- Daniel is given information that he says he does not understand and yet STILL God moves upon him to accurately state his vision complete with all of its symbols accurately stated.

Moses did not know all that God knew to create the world and all life on it in 7 days - but he DID know what a day was, he DID know what a morning and evening were, and did know what plants, animals, water, air were.

you are eisegeting wild ideas that go against the actual content of the text.

Even the atheist professors of Hebrew and OT studies in all world class universities agree with what I am saying - although they reject the Bible as teaching truth.

==========================
Atheists often don't mind "admitting" to what the Bible says - they simply reject the idea that what it says is actually true. As in rejecting the virgin birth, the bodily ascension of Christ, the miracles of the bible and in this example they freely admit to what the Bible says - while rejecting it as 'truth'.

Professor James Barr, Regius Professor of Hebrew at the University of Oxford, has written:

‘Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1–11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that:​

​

(a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience​

​

(b) the figures contained in the Genesis genealogies provided by simple addition a chronology from the beginning of the world up to later stages in the biblical story​

​

(c) Noah’s flood was understood to be world-wide and extinguish all human and animal life except for those in the ark.​

​

Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know.’​

In my day there was an outhouse in my backyard.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Is there a rover on Mars right now?

Googled your question and found.

Is The Rover on Mars still going on?


On August 6, 2022, a detailed overview of accomplishments by the Curiosity rover for the last ten years was reported. The rover is still operational, and as of 28 July 2023, Curiosity has been active on Mars for 3901 sols (4008 total days; 10 years, 356 days) since its landing (see current status).

It's current position is:

Location Map for Perseverance Rover - NASA

Get the day-by-day location of the Mars Perseverance rover as it explores Jezero Crater in this interactive map. The map also shows the location of the Mars Helicopter.

mars.nasa.gov

 

[Daniel Marsh]

tip toed to here ouch

 

[Daniel Marsh]

It's hot on Mars

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You're doing a lot of guessing when you insist on conclusions that are of the form -- "day does not mean day" in Gen 1 or Ex 20:8-11, "morning and evening are not one day" in Gen 1, and "we are getting bad information since Moses did not understand all of science".

In Dan 8 -- Daniel is given information that he says he does not understand and yet STILL God moves upon him to accurately state his vision complete with all of its symbols accurately stated.

Moses did not know all that God knew to create the world and all life on it in 7 days - but he DID know what a day was, he DID know what a morning and evening were, and did know what plants, animals, water, air were.

you are eisegeting wild ideas that go against the actual content of the text.

Even the atheist professors of Hebrew and OT studies in all world class universities agree with what I am saying - although they reject the Bible as teaching truth.

==========================
Atheists often don't mind "admitting" to what the Bible says - they simply reject the idea that what it says is actually true. As in rejecting the virgin birth, the bodily ascension of Christ, the miracles of the bible and in this example they freely admit to what the Bible says - while rejecting it as 'truth'.

Professor James Barr, Regius Professor of Hebrew at the University of Oxford, has written:

‘Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1–11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that:​

​

(a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience​

​

(b) the figures contained in the Genesis genealogies provided by simple addition a chronology from the beginning of the world up to later stages in the biblical story​

​

(c) Noah’s flood was understood to be world-wide and extinguish all human and animal life except for those in the ark.​

​

Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know.’​

There is a bit of a spanner in the works concerning the view that the six days of creation were 24 hour days. On day 6, Adam tended the garden. If you ask any gardener, it takes more than just one day to tend a reasonably sized garden. Commonsense tells us that along with trees, there were plants and flowers, including vegetable plants. Adam and Eve would have needed them for food, and although the plants and trees were created brand new, it would have taken longer for the vegetables to mature and the fruit to ripen. Along with that Adam was given the task to name at least 25,000 different species of animals. It certainly would have taken him more than the daylight hours to accomplish that. There wouldn't have been much activity during the hours of darkness. Along with that, it would have taken him time to realise that none of the animals could give him the companionship that he needed, and so God performed surgery on him to create Eve, and then he needed time to recover from the surgery. Recovering from serious surgery would certainly take more that 24 hours, Ask anyone who has had to recover from surgery. Also, both Adam and Eve would have spent time over a period of time fellowshiping with God in the cool of the day. To say that all this took place over just one 24 hour day is just sheer nonsense. It actually blows a hole in the 24 hour day creation week.

God does not perform magic. You can't tell me that God magically caused all this to happen in just 24 hours, or less if you subtract the hours of darkness.

 

[BobRyan]

There is a bit of a spanner in the works concerning the view that the six days of creation were 24 hour days.

ITs in legal code.

'Six days you shall labor.. for in six days the Lord made" and each one is one rotation of the planet "evening and morning"

On day 6, Adam tended the garden.

Agreed. On day 6 Adam is in the Garden.

On day 3 plants are here and on day 5 they are being eaten by birds and fish.
On day 6 they are being eaten by humans and animals.

If you ask any gardener, it takes more than just one day to tend a reasonably sized garden.

How long does it take to tend a garden that is already producing fruit?

Commonsense tells us that along with trees, there were plants and flowers, including vegetable plants.

true.

Adam and Eve would have needed them for food

true.

, and although the plants and trees were created brand new, it would have taken longer for the vegetables to mature and the fruit to ripen.

Why.

How long did it take Adam to learn to walk, eat, talk, realize what it means to tend a garden and be married to a wife? - apparently about one afternoon. From dust to adult in an afternoon according to Gen 2.

Along with that Adam was given the task to name at least 25,000 different species of animals.

Or did he simply name families - "kinds" that were in the garden. I guess we would have needed to see it first hand.

To say that all this took place over just one 24 hour day is just sheer nonsense.

Well if God was incapable of it - well then we certainly could draw a line right where His infinite capability ends.

God does not perform magic. You can't tell me that God magically caused all this to happen in just 24 hours, or less if you subtract the hours of darkness.

To someone infinitely less capable than God - everything He does must look like magic.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

ITs in legal code.

'Six days you shall labor.. for in six days the Lord made" and each one is one rotation of the planet "evening and morning"


Agreed. On day 6 Adam is in the Garden.

On day 3 plants are here and on day 5 they are being eaten by birds and fish.
On day 6 they are being eaten by humans and animals.

How long does it take to tend a garden that is already producing fruit?

true.

true.

Why.

How long did it take Adam to learn to walk, eat, talk, realize what it means to tend a garden and be married to a wife? - apparently about one afternoon. From dust to adult in an afternoon according to Gen 2.

Or did he simply name families - "kinds" that were in the garden. I guess we would have needed to see it first hand.

Well if God was incapable of it - well then we certainly could draw a line right where His infinite capability ends.



To someone infinitely less capable than God - everything He does must look like magic.

It is possible to be so religiously minded that basic common sense is ignored. After over 50 years of believing that creation took 6 24 hour days, and then examining the actual scientific evidence, I am quickly coming to see that the six "days" were Moses describing six stages of creation. Because the Hebrew language has a much more limited vocabulary than English, Moses used the word "yom" to describe the six stages, because that was the only word he could use to describe it.

Because God works outside of our space time dimension, it could be quite possible for Him to spend as much time as He liked to design and construct the universe and our world. So, I reckon that Moses' description of creation being six stages involving millions of years using "six days" is viable given the actual scientific evidence.

It is significant that all of the scientists who don't have a Biblical basis for their conclusions, say that according to the evidence they have, the universe and the world were created over six multimillion periods of time.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If you go to the main Youtube page and type "Hugh Ross" in the search pane, all his videos will come up. There are two fascinating debates between him - one is with Dr. Kent Hovind, and the other is with a young earth Astrophycist, Dr Jason Lisle. Both put their evidence supporting their positions and we can decide which is the most viable according to Scripture. There are two debates with Dr Hovind, whose PhD is in education, and Eric Hovind who runs an apologetics ministry I found both Dr and Mr Hovind, through the pitch of their voice and rapidity of speech appeared to have difficulty being able to maintain their position, while Dr Ross remained calm and collected in his responses. I think that Dr Ross appeared more confident in his position than the others. But when the two Astrophysicists had their debate, both appeared quite confident in their respective positions and the debate got quite technical at times.

I think it all came down to how the word "yom" is interpreted in Genesis 1 and 2. The young earth proponents were adamant that the Scripture meant "yom" to be a 24 hour day. Dr Ross maintained that Genesis 1 and 2 were different to all the other references to "day". Also in day 6 he noted that the activities that Adam did during that time would have taken much more than a 24 hour day. I found that interesting and persuasive from a common sense point of view. When you think that Adam had to tend the garden, which takes some time, name all the animals (around 25,000 different species), come to the point where the animals didn't give him the companionship he needed, went through surgery to have God use a part of his side to create Eve, then spend time recovering from the surgery, It is obvious that all this took a lot longer than 24 hours.

One thing I wish to note is that Dr Hovind accused Dr Ross of heresy and being part of a cult. I think that he lost the debate at that point. Dr Ross made the point that whether the earth is young or old it is not a salvation issue. It was acknowledged in the other debates that the exchanges were respectful and non accusative and not hateful, and cultishness and heresy never came into those discussions.

However, you can view these debates for yourself and come to your own conclusion fo whether Dr Ross or the young-earth proponents views are more viable than the other.

One thing Dr Ross makes clear is that his intention is to convince his peers in the science community that God does exist so that in itself causes problems with his theology in that it limits his interpretations to be compatible with science. If you’ve listened to him very much I’m sure that you’ve heard him claim that the Bible says that the laws of physics do not change. He bases that statement on Jeremiah 33. This is the passage he’s referring to.

““Have you not observed what this people have spoken, saying, ‘The two families which the Lord chose, He has rejected them’? Thus they despise My people, no longer are they as a nation in their sight. Thus says the Lord, ‘If My covenant for day and night stand not, and the fixed patterns of heaven and earth I have not established, then I would reject the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, not taking from his descendants rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. But I will restore their fortunes and will have mercy on them.’ ””
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭33‬:‭24‬-‭26‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Now this is a pretty ambitious statement to support his interpretation but it becomes crystal clear that this interpretation does not include miracles when you read the gospels and find that Jesus walked on water. Not to mention Lot’s wife turning to a pillar of salt. I think it’s quite clear that in the case of miracles being performed that the laws of physics do in fact change. Obviously Jesus could not walk on water without the laws of physics changing and Lot’s wife couldn’t be turned into a pillar of salt without the laws of biology and chemistry changing.

So far I still haven’t found where he says that time didn’t exist in the garden of Eden. As for the definition of the word Yom and Adam naming all the animals, we don’t know how many animals were in the garden at that time and I’m sure you could easily name at least 100 animals in 60 seconds. The passage says that God brought the animals to him so it’s not as if he had to go find each one. But let’s say he did have to name 25000 animals that could be accomplished in less than 5 hours at 100 animals per minute. So even if he could only name 50 animals per minute that’s still just over 8 hours. Dr Ross being an astrophysicist should be able to do simple math such as this. There’s still the problem with the term “there was evening and there was morning”. This statement is telling us there was one evening and one morning not multiple evenings & mornings. Now if Dr Ross is going to say that these evenings and mornings were longer than 24 hours then he is contradicting himself by saying that the laws of physics do not change because that would require a change in the laws of physics. The longest a plant can survive without sunlight is 20 days and that’s only a very few types of plants that can survive that long. Dr Ross sounds pretty smart on the surface but he makes a lot of statements that cannot be supported by science or the scriptures.

 

[Halbhh]

this interpretation does not include miracles when you read the gospels and find that Jesus walked on water. Not to mention Lot’s wife turning to a pillar of salt. I think it’s quite clear that in the case of miracles being performed that the laws of physics do in fact change.

This note from me to you isn't about that discussion at all, but only about God and how physics is in particular -- what physics is as related to God's unlimited powers and abilities.

When I use the word 'physics' (in which I have a closely related degree, Engineering Physics) and which I've read a lot of research reports in for many decades, I'm referring to the normal consistent laws of nature (the term 'physics' refers both to the laws of nature that we've discovered so far, but also the term more broadly also refers to as yet undiscovered physics that we think we might some day discover and understand in the future).

God is the creator of physics though (being the creator of all that exists in every sense and every way), and He can break the laws of physics whenever He chooses I expect.

So, by 'physics' then I would never mean to suggest physics is rules that God must follow, as that would be like suggesting a carpenter must obey a house he has constructed. Instead, my guess is that God simply ignores the laws of physics in many or most instances when He chooses to do certain miracles. (though He could potentially at times when many non believers are present in a location then intentionally make a miracle appear that it could be just extremely good luck, as needed to prevent the non believers from getting an easy obvious proof of His existence before they come to obedient faith in Him).

I take verses like how the "Earth is firmly established on its pillars" to be the figurative meaning that it would seem: Earth is stable, reliable, and can support human life for 120 years and so on...it won't suddenly all turn into quicksand or fall into the sun.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If you go to the main Youtube page and type "Hugh Ross" in the search pane, all his videos will come up. There are two fascinating debates between him - one is with Dr. Kent Hovind, and the other is with a young earth Astrophycist, Dr Jason Lisle. Both put their evidence supporting their positions and we can decide which is the most viable according to Scripture. There are two debates with Dr Hovind, whose PhD is in education, and Eric Hovind who runs an apologetics ministry I found both Dr and Mr Hovind, through the pitch of their voice and rapidity of speech appeared to have difficulty being able to maintain their position, while Dr Ross remained calm and collected in his responses. I think that Dr Ross appeared more confident in his position than the others. But when the two Astrophysicists had their debate, both appeared quite confident in their respective positions and the debate got quite technical at times.

I think it all came down to how the word "yom" is interpreted in Genesis 1 and 2. The young earth proponents were adamant that the Scripture meant "yom" to be a 24 hour day. Dr Ross maintained that Genesis 1 and 2 were different to all the other references to "day". Also in day 6 he noted that the activities that Adam did during that time would have taken much more than a 24 hour day. I found that interesting and persuasive from a common sense point of view. When you think that Adam had to tend the garden, which takes some time, name all the animals (around 25,000 different species), come to the point where the animals didn't give him the companionship he needed, went through surgery to have God use a part of his side to create Eve, then spend time recovering from the surgery, It is obvious that all this took a lot longer than 24 hours.

One thing I wish to note is that Dr Hovind accused Dr Ross of heresy and being part of a cult. I think that he lost the debate at that point. Dr Ross made the point that whether the earth is young or old it is not a salvation issue. It was acknowledged in the other debates that the exchanges were respectful and non accusative and not hateful, and cultishness and heresy never came into those discussions.

However, you can view these debates for yourself and come to your own conclusion fo whether Dr Ross or the young-earth proponents views are more viable than the other.

Just heard him say something interesting in this video titled “the science of creation lecture #4. At 45 minutes into the video he explains how humans could not survive on earth if the days were 23 hours long or 25 hours long. In order for humans to survive on earth the days must be 24 hours long.

 

[Halbhh]

I’m sure you could easily name at least 100 animals in 60 seconds.

I'm not sure what you meant here, as of course no one would wish to ever name 100 animals in 60 seconds (and even in a whole day that would be a lot) (viz -- even if he ate a lot of coffee or cocoa beans, and was getting hyper and jumping around restlessly)

Unless I was under some duress and intense time pressure, I'd probably name like a dozen or 20 animals in an hour or 2 and then be ready to do something else for a while.

Ok, getting more serious, there's no basis for anyone to think Adam was aging even, so that he'd grow old and get gray hairs eventually. He was in the Garden with the Eternal One coming to walk with him, and we know that Adam was not yet subject to death! (it's in the scripture...)

So..........

Why? Why wouldn't Adam age and die? (or what is time, what is death?...)

Nearby was the eternal Tree of Life, which will be in heaven (Revelation 22) -- The Tree of Life is in the 2nd chapter of the Bible, and also in the last chapter of the Bible.

Eden Restored​

22 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 22 - New International Version

Eden Restored - Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every...

www.biblegateway.com

(heading of passage is from the NIV translation quoted here)
---------

The Garden of Eden seems likely before the fall to have been of a different quality from mortal ordinary Earth where people age and die.

If someone felt they needed to guess for any reason about mere mortal world time duration in the outside world (outside of the Garden)....well, we can better perhaps realize that truly the time duration is trivial in a way, 10,000 years or 10 million -- that would not even matter. Perhaps it was 244,000 years, for instance. Not important in the way that scripture is important (time is a mere mortal fallen human concern really).

 

[FaithT]

One thing Dr Ross makes clear is that his intention is to convince his peers in the science community that God does exist so that in itself causes problems with his theology in that it limits his interpretations to be compatible with science. If you’ve listened to him very much I’m sure that you’ve heard him claim that the Bible says that the laws of physics do not change. He bases that statement on Jeremiah 33. This is the passage he’s referring to.

““Have you not observed what this people have spoken, saying, ‘The two families which the Lord chose, He has rejected them’? Thus they despise My people, no longer are they as a nation in their sight. Thus says the Lord, ‘If My covenant for day and night stand not, and the fixed patterns of heaven and earth I have not established, then I would reject the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, not taking from his descendants rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. But I will restore their fortunes and will have mercy on them.’ ””
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭33‬:‭24‬-‭26‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Now this is a pretty ambitious statement to support his interpretation but it becomes crystal clear that this interpretation does not include miracles when you read the gospels and find that Jesus walked on water. Not to mention Lot’s wife turning to a pillar of salt. I think it’s quite clear that in the case of miracles being performed that the laws of physics do in fact change. Obviously Jesus could not walk on water without the laws of physics changing and Lot’s wife couldn’t be turned into a pillar of salt without the laws of biology and chemistry changing.

So far I still haven’t found where he says that time didn’t exist in the garden of Eden. As for the definition of the word Yom and Adam naming all the animals, we don’t know how many animals were in the garden at that time and I’m sure you could easily name at least 100 animals in 60 seconds. The passage says that God brought the animals to him so it’s not as if he had to go find each one. But let’s say he did have to name 25000 animals that could be accomplished in less than 5 hours at 100 animals per minute. So even if he could only name 50 animals per minute that’s still just over 8 hours. Dr Ross being an astrophysicist should be able to do simple math such as this. There’s still the problem with the term “there was evening and there was morning”. This statement is telling us there was one evening and one morning not multiple evenings & mornings. Now if Dr Ross is going to say that these evenings and mornings were longer than 24 hours then he is contradicting himself by saying that the laws of physics do not change because that would require a change in the laws of physics. The longest a plant can survive without sunlight is 20 days and that’s only a very few types of plants that can survive that long. Dr Ross sounds pretty smart on the surface but he makes a lot of statements that cannot be supported by science or the scriptures.

so when the poster quotes Dr. Ross we must keep in mind that not everything he says is unscientific?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I'm not sure what you meant here, as of course no one would wish to ever name 100 animals in 60 seconds (and even in a whole day that would be a lot) (viz -- even if he ate a lot of coffee or cocoa beans, and was getting hyper and jumping around restlessly)

I play a game called Ark Survival where you tame dinosaurs and try to survive and I don’t waste a bunch of time naming them I just put the first name that pops into my head. See the thing is, the Bible specifically states that he named all of them in one day. So while some people may want to spend more time on something like that, apparently Adam didn’t worry about it so much. My point was simply to show that it is absolutely mathematically possible for him to name 25000 animals in a day. If he named one animal every 2 seconds he could name 25000 animals in less than 14 hours. So you can’t sit there and say that “Adam wouldn’t want to do that” when the scriptures specifically tell us that he did in fact name all of them in one day because that would be putting your assumption over what the scriptures specifically state.

 

[BNR32FAN]

so when the poster quotes Dr. Ross we must keep in mind that not everything he says is unscientific?

I’m sorry I don’t understand the question, can you please rephrase it?

 

[Halbhh]

See the thing is, the Bible specifically states that he named all of them in one day.

I think if you look carefully in Genesis 2, you'd see that's not in the passage:

19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

But for Adam no suitable helper was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep....

--------

That idea this happened all in 1 day must then come from the nowhere-in-the-Bible added idea that the Garden of Eden was only 1 day in duration.

Which scripture nowhere says clearly, but instead is 1 of 2 possible guesses....

I, like many, believe/make the reasonable guess that the Garden happened after the 6 days of creation. We are not told either way, but this is the most simple way to read the text of Genesis 1 into Genesis 2 -- the least complex way. That the Garden happened after the 6 days.

Both views are guesses.

But this one is the simpler, more straightforward reading -- that the text is all in sequence.


So, the Garden after Genesis 1 is simply the most straightforward reading of the text, and I would doubt a more convoluted reading.

And Adam was the first human being (of all that existed) to be given a specifically God-breathed spirit -- giving him the first-ever human soul that would then be accountable to God on the Day of Judgement to come.

Making Adam the first of us.

All other hominids (Neanderthals, etc.) and even modern humans that were already created in day 6 of creation did not have God-breathed spirit/souls that will be accountable on the Day of Judgement.

So, Adam was the first of us humans that will be Judged on the Day of Judgment.

When Cain murdered his brother Abel and then was exiled to travel off to the land of Nod, and took a wife there, it seems likely he found a wife there, from peoples that already lived there, humans from Day 6....

We are not told if after God gave Adam the first-ever soul accountable to God on the Day of Judgement whether God might also have then given all other already living humans outside the Garden souls also.

This and many things are not told to us.

I try to always carefully remember what is told to us, and what is left for us to try to guess at, and not confuse the 2.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I think if you look carefully in Genesis 2, you'd see that's not in the passage:

19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

But for Adam no suitable helper was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep....

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That idea this happened all in 1 day must then come from the nowhere-in-the-Bible added idea that the Garden of Eden was only 1 day in duration.

Which scripture nowhere says.

It's a theory someone made up.

Please read Genesis 1:26-31 and compare it to Genesis 2:15-23.

“Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so. God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭26‬-‭31‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

God created both man and female on the sixth day.

“Then the Lord God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.” Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.” Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him. So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said, “This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2‬:‭15‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

God created man, then Adam named the animals, then after that God made Eve from Adam. All of this took place on the 6th day according to the scriptures.