How much sin?

[Paladin21]

I'm including myself in this. I did walk away for alot of years. And I truely have to say I thank God for His faithfulness. But I will admit I did not understand what I had received. And I think alot of people walk away because of lack of understanding on what He has done and is doing in our lives.

I am soooo glad to hear that I kid you not that is really cool that you came back.

On your post did you ever ask Jesus into your heart? Are you saying to me (us) that you really never did accept him until you came back??

 

[Trish1947]

Paladin21...On your post did you ever ask Jesus into your heart? Are you saying to me (us) that you really never did accept him until you came back??

No I understood that Jesus was my Lord and Savior. No doubting that at all. But I didn't stay long enough to get to know Him, trust Him, build a relationship with Him. That its not about me working in my own power to keep Him. It's that He works in His own power to keep me.

 

[Paladin21]

No I understood that Jesus was my Lord and Savior. No doubting that at all. But I didn't stay long enough to get to know Him, trust Him, build a relationship with Him. That its not about me working in my own power to keep Him. It's that He works in His own power to keep me.

So you are saying if you would have died would you have went to heaven or not? Were you saved then?

 

[Trish1947]

Paladin21....So you are saying if you would have died would you have went to heaven or not? Were you saved then?

Yes I was saved. My silly thinking didn't nullify the work of God. I just needed a fuller understanding of His grace, mercy, what He is asking of me, and what He is not asking of me, who I am in Him, what He means to me etc, but I ran off not knowing that the knowing of these things comes with time.

 

[psalms 91]

Romans 5:8-9....But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1 Corinthians 5:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spiriti of our God.

Acts 13:38-39 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins; And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

jus·ti·fy
To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid:

1. To declare free of blame; absolve.
2. To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin. Used of God.

If one or fifty unrepented sins can separate me from the Father...then if I repented of each sin...I could stand before the Father and in essence say, "See! I kept the rules! I confessed every last thought, every word of gossip...didn't miss one!"

Then I could boast on my own efforts to secure my salvation.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God; for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

If you truly believe an unconfessed unrepented sin can erase your name...is it one sin? Or fifty? Just which one will tilt the scales too much?

"A'maal Namah" (record of doings) is taught in Islam...a muslim hopes he did 51% good over his life..... sounds like a burdensome and frightening yoke to me. Jesus told us His yoke is easy and His burden light and that I would find rest unto my soul (Matt 11:29-30)

Even if we 'continue sinning willfully'...I've always had faith in God to deal with those whom He loves...

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth, he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

IMO.

confession is one thing but you forget the word repenteth eth continual action for sin, repent means a turning away from, this is also a part of forgiveness

 

[psalms 91]

A friendly challenge to anyone who wants to explain these verses to me, I GREW UP in a baptist background and I have still not got a clean answer on any of these.

Some things to chew on



I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Rev. 3


4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev 20

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Ouch

James 5

19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.



4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,


5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.



Matt. 7

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'



Wow thats pretty clean cut, I still find it hard to think that you can debate the issue since verse #1 says "I will not Blot his name out of the book" meaning he has the power to. #2 says if we save a BROTHER from sin we save his SOUL from death. #3 says if we take part in the heavenly gift (being saved) if they fall away (which its saying they can) they cannot come back. #4 It says palinly that not everyone who just says "Lord lord" (to me a direct example of sinners prayer) will make it to heaven if they DID NOT DO THE WILL OF GOD.

good verses brother that clearly show that you can fall away

 

[FireOfGod]

It would be way too easy to make Heaven just by getting "saved" once and then going off and living your own life and doing whatever you want, not even acknowledging God. That's ludicrous... The path is narrow, the walk isn't easy.

Good scriptures, by the way, Paladin.

 

[Christina M]

It would be way too easy to make Heaven just by getting "saved" once and then going off and living your own life and doing whatever you want, not even acknowledging God. That's ludicrous... The path is narrow, the walk isn't easy.

What I don't understand is why so many are so insistent this isn't true, FireofGod. Why does showing what the Word says about it bring up such wrath?


The following scripture makes it really clear....... no matter how many sinner's prayers one does.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Trish1947]

Your not doing any one any favors to say "stop sinning"..what you do when you do this to another Christian, is remind them that they are operating under the law. Knowledge of the law brings sin and death. It's perfect and we are not. As soon as you tell someone "thou shalt not," they will. A better way is to remind them what they have received, which is Christs very own rightousness imputed to them as a free gift. It was imputed to them, and they need to receive this by faith. That Jesus promised to live His rightousness through us. If you walk in this truth, which is walking in the Spirit, you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

 

[Christina M]

Your not doing any one any favors to say "stop sinning"..what you do when you do this to another Christian, is remind them that they are operating under the law. Knowledge of the law brings sin and death. It's perfect and we are not. As soon as you tell someone "thou shalt not," they will. A better way is to remind them what they have received, which is Christs very own rightousness imputed to them as a free gift. It was imputed to them, and they need to receive this by faith. That Jesus promised to live His rightousness through us. If you walk in this truth, which is walking in the Spirit, you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Yes, Trish..... but a person who KNOWS they are sinning and yet they do not give one iota about who they are in Christ.... continue sinning because "God loves me no matter what I do".... won't respond to anything you say bcause they are intent on their sinful pleasures. Their hearts are already hardened.

As the scripture belows points out, how can one "depart from the living God" if one had not once been WITH God????? Here is a dire warning to take care NOT to depart from God.

Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness, When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in [their] heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

 

[psalms 91]

good point Trish but many do not walk in the Spirit and in some cases even call His work satans work . The Law merely points out that we need Jesus as no man can fulfill the Law but it is a good moral compass for us. There is also a difference between sinning and repenting and continuing to do the same sin over and over and over without any progress in getting ruid of it, to me this is just another way of denying the cleansing power of Christ andmaking Him of no effect

 

[psalms 91]

Yes, Trish..... but a person who KNOWS they are sinning and yet they do not give one iota about who they are in Christ.... continue sinning because "God loves me no matter what I do".... won't respond to anything you say bcause they are intent on their sinful pleasures. Their hearts are already hardened.

As the scripture belows points out, how can one "depart from the living God" if one had not once been WITH God????? Here is a dire warning to take care NOT to depart from God.

[/i][/b]

Wonderful point

 

[Alpine]

I don't personally believe it is possible, but from the previous post I'd deduce that we are all allowed one murder, so chose wisely.

Let's see, wife or mother-in-law? Wife or mother-in-law?

LOL! Funniest comment I've read on here since I came on

 

[Doug45]

Perhaps the discussion should be about our security rather than our salvation? I believe I am totally secure in Him and His salvation as long as I hold fast to the confidence of it.

IMO this thread begs to answer a question that is only in the hands of God Himself. There are adequate scriptures stating both sides of the discussion. These passages are also adequate to establish a doctrine. Yet no matter which side we take, we are all confident in the salvation that Jesus has provided for us.

I don't hardly think about sin anymore in light of His love for me, but I am quick to repent when He brings conviction. I have total trust that no matter where I go or what I do that He will guard my soul. There are no accidental back slidings. I have to choose to walk away. So the question remains, how far can I go before I fall off the cliff? I suspect farther than most of us think. But the reality is that if my fellowship with Him as my Father is intact, I will not choose to walk away.

Sin hurts fellowship far more than relationship. I am a son and He does not easily disown me. Yet if I choose to ignore Him or stop my ears from hearing His voice, He will for a time allow me to wander. In that time of wandering, I become increasingly on my own.

There have been a number of verses that support both sides of this discussion, but here are a few more.

Hebrews 3:6
but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

Hebrews 3:14
For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end;

Hebrews 6:11
And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end,


Blessings,

Doug

 

[Trish1947]

Yes, Trish..... but a person who KNOWS they are sinning and yet they do not give one iota about who they are in Christ.... continue sinning because "God loves me no matter what I do".... won't respond to anything you say bcause they are intent on their sinful pleasures. Their hearts are already hardened.

As the scripture belows points out, how can one "depart from the living God" if one had not once been WITH God????? Here is a dire warning to take care NOT to depart from God.

[/i][/b]

People that have lost their consciousness or conviction is another thing all together. And I agree with you. I could never understand someone saying that it's o.k. to do whatever I please because I am saved, is using their freedom to furstrate God's grace. We have not received a license to commit sin, and people that think it is a license to do so, I think are missing the mark by a long shot. We have been set free from the law of sin and death, and not to eventually see it I don't understand it. No we are not perfect, but aren't we being changed from glory to glory?

 

[psalms 91]

those who allow themselves to be changed are but we still have free will and there are still areas that we dont want to give up we all start out the same but it is obvious that we do not all grow to the same point in God and the reason for that is a willingness to give up things and traits, every step closer to God involves giving something up or doing battle with something in ourselves which is also giving something up.

 

[Trish1947]

those who allow themselves to be changed are but we still have free will and there are still areas that we dont want to give up we all start out the same but it is obvious that we do not all grow to the same point in God and the reason for that is a willingness to give up things and traits, every step closer to God involves giving something up or doing battle with something in ourselves which is also giving something up.

I agree here too..change does not happen overnight. We hate the things that we do. That shows you have conviction, but your hope is in God, and we submit it to Him to work in us everyday. I'm sure that none of us are the same as we were 5 years ago, 2 years ago, even last week. But I also agree that we can go overboard and become so extremely sin conscious, that we no longer are Christ conscious. Which puts us in a horrible condition of never seeing the liberty that He has given us.

 

[psalms 91]

I agree here too..change does not happen overnight. We hate the things that we do. That shows you have conviction, but your hope is in God, and we submit it to Him to work in us everyday. I'm sure that none of us are the same as we were 5 years ago, 2 years ago, even last week. But I also agree that we can go overboard and become so extremely sin conscious, that we no longer are Christ conscious. Which puts us in a horrible condition of never seeing the liberty that He has given us.

amen Trish we are on the same page

 

[chilifrankplate]

I keep seeing in these threads that "the gate is narrow". It seems to me that alot of people will tell you that it means if stray from the path at all you'll surely miss the gate. The reason the gate is narrow, is bacause the gate is Jesus. There is no way to the father, except through the son.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Yes, Trish..... but a person who KNOWS they are sinning and yet they do not give one iota about who they are in Christ.... continue sinning because "God loves me no matter what I do".... won't respond to anything you say bcause they are intent on their sinful pleasures. Their hearts are already hardened...
[/i][/b]

I think it is possible for people to lose themselves and forget who they are. They fall into a kind of soulical madness:

Luk 15:17 KJVA
17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

Vincent's Word Pictures:
"Came to himself"
A striking expression, putting the state of rebellion against God as a kind of madness.

Barnes
Luke 15:17:
Verse 17. He came to himself. This is a very expressive phrase. It is commonly applied to one who has been deranged, and when he recovers we say he has come to himself. In this place it denotes that the folly of the young man was a kind of derangement--that he was insane.



The "prodigal son" sinned greatly while away from his father. The verse says he was not being himself.
I think Christians sometimes get lost. Then forget who they are...if they ever really were aware of it. While they are "away from themselves" (this is where they are before they "come to themselves") they may wander far and wide... joining themselves to sinners, and eating and living like a pig.
"No man gave unto him..."
Illustrative of being totally disfellowshiped from even the merciful in society. Repulsive and beyond hope.

Yet it was in this state of destitution and filth that he suddenly recalled (because of the contrast with his former life) who he and what he was.

Someone said that some people have to hit rock bottom before they come to the point of "self awareness". Then they come to themselves and return to who and what they are.

We wonder.... while they were lost in the world, did they ever at any time cease to be thier father's child? Who would have to make that decision? From the story, was the father waiting with a stick, ready to beat and chase him away.
Our position is ultimately tied up with our concept of the Father. How do you see Him?