How much sin?

[Trish1947]

Good point.
I guess that is why Paul said that the fornicating believer was to be delivered unto satan by their prayers... it does not happen automatically???

At any rate... if grace and mercy is extended to the worst of sinners, what is that to us? Mercy and grace are His to give. Perhaps this old fool with repent at the ripe old age of 99. And I for one will not complain.

Your right, as long as he's drawing a breath, there is hope. And that is Mercy.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Thank you my brother. I rejoice with your desire to promote and exhort people to holiness and purity.
There will never be anything wrong with that!

i agree that there is a holy place within each of us that is sinless but i also believe that if i continue to willfully sin and not repent then Gods Spirit will leave at some point and i will be lost, i do not believe that an oops or our daily sins can do that but to willfully sin is another story at what point are you lost only God knows because only He knows the heart but it can happen.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Your right, as long as he's drawing a breath, there is hope. And that is Mercy.

Amen... and I do not know about you, but I need that kind of mercy!
Desperately!
I lay awake nights pleading to God that His righteousness be fulfilled in me.
I hunger and thrist after righteousness. This I think it the true heart cry of every believer. Our hearts groan and cry out for the purity and glory that is the righteousness of God.

 

[Christina M]

Hi sis.
Well I did address that point.
I pointed out that all the while he was gone he never ceased to be his father's child. Blood of his blood, flesh of his flesh.
What is the worse that might have happened to him? He could have died. At death he would have ceased to be his father's son. But as you point out... he did return. That is the point of the story.
When I teach this parable, I do not call it the "parable of the prodigal son". I call it "the parable of the compassionate father". It is His love and compassion that is the center of the parable and without which the parable would have a tragic and sad ending.
The boy was not himself while he was gone. But something brought him back to sanity. Those of us who are parents know what this is talking about. I have 4 kids. Two of them left home as soon as HS was over. They went a little "nuts". But it was not long before they "came to themselves". All those years of mom and dads instruction and compassion brought them back. If that instruction had not been there... deep and solid, they would not have returned to themselves. There would have been nothing to return to.
If the prodigal was not still his father's child, he would have never come back to himself. It was because the boy was his father's child that he came back. If he had been lost, there would have been nothing there to "come back to". He would have just remained the destitute, pig man that he was. That is part of what being truly lost is.

You misunderstood me. I understand the parable.

I am talking about someone who DOES not come back. Someone who wallows in the pigsty and loves it, and rubs it in his father's nose daily.

I cannot believe that person is saved.

(Why is this such a hard question???? Does no one believe there are people who say they are Christians but are really not, just because they said a sinner's prayer?)

 

[inrsoul]

You misunderstood me. I understand the parable.

I am talking about someone who DOES not come back. Someone who wallows in the pigsty and loves it, and rubs it in his father's nose daily.

I cannot believe that person is saved.

(Why is this such a hard question???? Does no one believe there are people who say they are Christians but are really not, just because they said a sinner's prayer?)

It seems to me, there's something that's deeply bothering you and it's not just topic alone. Is there something you want to share? My pm is waiting, if you don't mind.

 

[Trish1947]

Amen... and I do not know about you, but I need that kind of mercy!
Desperately!
I lay awake nights pleading to God that His righteousness be fulfilled in me.
I hunger and thrist after righteousness. This I think it the true heart cry of every believer. Our hearts groan and cry out for the purity and glory that is the righteousness of God.

Yes, Did's..that thirst for rightousness. It is a groan within us. He said we would be filled..Amen.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Yes, Did's..that thirst for rightousness. It is a groan within us. He said we would be filled..Amen.

That hunger and thirst.. that groan...
I believe that is the most pure and intimate conversation we can have with God as long as we are in the body.
It is the pure, unrefined and undiluted speaking forth of our spirits.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

You misunderstood me. I understand the parable.

I am talking about someone who DOES not come back. Someone who wallows in the pigsty and loves it, and rubs it in his father's nose daily.

I cannot believe that person is saved.

(Why is this such a hard question???? Does no one believe there are people who say they are Christians but are really not, just because they said a sinner's prayer?)

Can a child of God do that?

 

[psalms 91]

yes i do believe that dids and i also believe that there are Christians who fall away and are lost. perhaps we are on the same track with just different terminology as i think you are saying there are those who fall away but were never saved but i do believe there are those who were saved and fell away

 

[SavedByGrace3]

yes i do believe that dids and i also believe that there are Christians who fall away and are lost. perhaps we are on the same track with just different terminology as i think you are saying there are those who fall away but were never saved but i do believe there are those who were saved and fell away

I just do not like the phrase "fell away" implying that it is as easy as falling off a log... that it is a natural and normal thing that will happen to anyone who trips or messes up.
I do believe a believer can sin a sin unto spiritual death. But I think this is more rare than we know and in fact may be somewhat difficult to do.

 

[Lpe04]

I believe to say that Christians in this age of Grace can lose their salvation is to say that Christ's work was not sufficient. The Word of God says that Christ took care of all sins, He was the perfect sacrifice. It was finished! Done! There is nothing else needed. It is not by works, but by grace. If you say that someone can lose salvation that they never earned, then it is no longer grace, but works. Salvation is a free gift. You are born again as a son of God. You can not undo sonship. Sonship is permanent. Just as I can rob a bank, murder some people, deny my parents, etc., but at the end of the day I am still my father's son and he will always love me. A simple DNA test will quickly prove that and nothing will change that truth.

I could go on and on, but this article explains it very well from Scripture. http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=126

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Let me put it in the words of Paul.

It is harder for your born again spirit to be lost than is for an unregenerate spirit to be saved by good works....

Theoretically it is possible.
Someone theoretically could obey every law and rule from the heart. Of course nobody ever has.

Well it would be harder for your regenerate spirit to be lost.

I believe to say that Christians in this age of Grace can lose their salvation is to say that Christ's work was not sufficient. The Word of God says that Christ took care of all sins, He was the perfect sacrifice. It was finished! Done! There is nothing else needed. It is not by works, but by grace. If you say that someone can lose salvation that they never earned, then it is no longer grace, but works. Salvation is a free gift. You are born again as a son of God. You can not undo sonship. Sonship is permanent. Just as I can rob a bank, murder some people, deny my parents, etc., but at the end of the day I am still my father's son and he will always love me. A simple DNA test will quickly prove that and nothing will change that truth.

I could go on and on, but this article explains it very well from Scripture. http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=126

 

[Lpe04]

And not only that it says that it is God's Will for everyone who looks to the Lord Jesus to be saved.

John 6:40 "For My Father's Will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

To say that someone who has believed can lose their salvation would nullify the Word of God.

God Bless

 

[Trish1947]

I think when a person believes that he is keeping himself is put under so much pressure and strain. He just doesn't have that much talent to do it, so falls away. God didn't fall away, but they think He has because they are powerless in themselves. I have many times fell on my face before God and telling Him that the only way I'm going to make it, is for Him to keep me. I have no one else, I have no confidence in anything within myself, all I can do is lay it all out there. Nothing like spilling your guts out to God. It's amazing how he knows it already, and lets you know it too by agreeing with what you just told Him..

 

[Godzchild]

The thread was just bait. She wanted to bait those of us who don't believe OSAS into admitting that you can't sin your way out of salvation, thinking that that destroys our argument.

Well it kinda does

No problem. I admit it. You can't sin away your salvation! Duh.

No kidding

That's not how it happens. This thread is a the same strawman that Calvinists always use to try to prove their shaky position. They claim that if you can "lose" your salvation, then it must be by commiting too many sins.

Well - that may be correct if I was a calvinist

There is no true answer to this thread, since the question was flawed to begin with.

The question isn't flawed and yes there is a true answer - the answer is NONE!!!!!!!!!!

Good thing we can disagree without losing our love for one another.

Jolly good show my dear fellow

 

[Godzchild]

Actually this thread came about as a result from the other one that Christina M started that turned into an unnecessary heated argument really. And it wasn't meant as a bait to shake anyone's foundations so to speak.

Thank you

 

[Godzchild]

Your question proves you never understood (or bothered to understand) the OSNAS view. Now go away sheela.

All I want is an answer to my question. I want the magic number so that I can make sure that I don't go over it - and go to heaven.

 

[Questioning Christian]

exactly how much sin does one need to commit to be able to undo the work of God? Is there an amount?

No sin can undo the work of God. If it was sin that caused people to lose their salvation, then none of us would be going to heaven, and probably ALL of us would be dead. Eternal life is knowing God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent [John 17:3] So, those who end up in hell are those who reject knowing Him. After all, he said, "Depart from me; I never knew YOU." He never knew them, because they never wanted to know Him. And so they perish. It was not because of their sin, but because when he reached out, they slapped His hand away, and died rejecting Him.

 

[Godzchild]

You misunderstood me. I understand the parable.

I am talking about someone who DOES not come back. Someone who wallows in the pigsty and loves it, and rubs it in his father's nose daily.

They are not the Lord's sheep.

I cannot believe that person is saved.

Not only do I believe that they are no saved - I also doubt if they ever were. But then....we shouldn't be judging the hearts of men - we have no idea if they will come to their senses at some point, so it's best to withhold judgement and leave it to God.

(Why is this such a hard question????

It's not!

Does no one believe there are people who say they are Christians but are really not, just because they said a sinner's prayer?)

Yes they are called FALSE PROFFESSORS. Which means they have 'proffessed' that they are christian but they were not regenerated or 'born again'.

 

[Godzchild]

Just wondering if anyone here understands what becoming a 'new creation' means? Also I'm still waiting for that 'magic' number. How much sin do I need to commit to undo God's work?

Anyone?