How Much Should We Pay Our Pastors?

yeshuaslavejeff

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OK guys, I admit I have no idea what anyone on here is talking about. Are we talking about if whether or not pastors should be paid? I'm confused.
Me too ?

The less someone is paid, the better the outcome, so .... what next ?
 
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jimmyjimmy

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OK guys, I admit I have no idea what anyone on here is talking about. Are we talking about if whether or not pastors should be paid? I'm confused.

How much a pastor should be paid.
 
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seeking.IAM

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Like many others, pastors are likely to have educational debt if they have a Bachelor's degree and M.Div which is a minimum requirement in many churches. While I have little respect for pastors who drive a Bentley, have a private plane, or an air-conditioned dog house in their backyard, I do believe in the adage, "You get what you pay for."
 
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Greg J.

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@jimmyjimmy's questions are good ones. I'm taking them as a practical questions, not as philosophical ones, since undoubtedly some readers are actually involved in the matter. I'm sure this subject has been well studied. Perhaps someone knows of a book that examines the different sides of the issue.

I would start by questioning anyone's opinion who has never been responsible for a decision that sets someone's salary. They have no wisdom on the subject, just ideas and ideals—in other words philosophy, even if that philosophy came from Scripture.

Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. (James 1:22, 1984 NIV)

And often that philosophy is based on, "if I can do with less, they can do with less," which is an ungodly perspective that takes so little into account that it belies the lack of experience with the subject.

As strange as it may sound, I think hearing what pastors have to say on the subject is as good as an opinion one might get.

It's going to depend on a lot of things, such as church administrative structure, what the pastor's employment agreement is, the cost of living within reasonable driving distances from the church, the salaries that the congregation members have, policies, bylaws, the pastor's experience, the type of pastor he is (able to do counseling?), market value of pastor jobs, and so on.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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And often that philosophy is based on, "if I can do with less, they can do with less," which is an ungodly perspective that takes so little into account that it belies the lack of experience with the subject.

Yes. Good point. The value of the pastor has nothing to do with how much the church can get away with paying him. It has only to do with his worth.

We should neither overpay him because he "needs" the money, or underpay him because he doesn't.
 
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PloverWing

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Our diocese sets the salary ranges for pastors of the Episcopal churches in our area. The range varies based on the years of experience the pastor has. It takes into account that the cost of living in our state is fairly high, and that the pastor generally has a graduate degree.

Some positive features of this approach are that a) we avoid that awful salary-negotiation dance, in which a shrewd negotiator can extract a higher salary than a less shrewd one, and b) we aren't always peering over the shoulders of pastors to see if they're spending their money in ways we approve of. There's a chart, here's your box on the chart, that's what we pay you.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Our diocese sets the salary ranges for pastors of the Episcopal churches in our area. The range varies based on the years of experience the pastor has. It takes into account that the cost of living in our state is fairly high, and that the pastor generally has a graduate degree.

Some positive features of this approach are that a) we avoid that awful salary-negotiation dance, in which a shrewd negotiator can extract a higher salary than a less shrewd one, and b) we aren't always peering over the shoulders of pastors to see if they're spending their money in ways we approve of. There's a chart, here's your box on the chart, that's what we pay you.

Yes. It can be awkward.
 
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Paidiske

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How much should we pay a pastor? How is this determined?

Enough that the pastor is freed from the need to undertake other paid work, and able to give him/herself to the ministry as his/her work. Enough to meet genuine needs but not enough for a life of luxury.

Like PloverWing, I work under a diocesan stipend determination, and I find that a helpful way to do it.

Should a pastor's salary be published?

I'd hope that the church's budget would be transparent to its members, so, yes.

The less someone is paid, the better the outcome

Not necessarily.

As strange as it may sound, I think hearing what pastors have to say on the subject is as good as an opinion one might get.

You're welcome. ;)

Quite seriously, I think there are probably a bunch of underlying questions about the relationship between the minister and the congregation, and how that is understood, and even what it means to be in a ministry role, which play into how we think about these things.
 
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Paidiske

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As a rough rule of thumb, your pastor should be paid a salary that is an average of the pay of the congragation.

Wouldn't that lead to a disincentive to minister in lower socio-economic areas (or, to put it another way, a temptation to seek out affluent congregattions)? Wouldn't it be better to have the same level of pay, whether you work in the city's best postcode or its worst?
 
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Paidiske

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As someone who's just been through the process of looking for a new ministry placement, it isn't as simple as all of that. Part of working out whether this or that opportunity is the right one for you does include working out whether you can actually live on the pay that's being offered (there were some ministry jobs I saw advertised as "house for duty" - which means you get housed but no pay. No matter how much I might have wanted to take those jobs, I couldn't, because I also need to eat!)

Edited to add: here are some examples of "house for duty" job advertisements, just to show you what I mean!

House for Duty Priest vacancy in South West

House for Duty Priest & Local Minister vacancy in East Midlands

Associate Priest House For Duty vacancy in Yorkshire and Lincs
 
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jimmyjimmy

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My church of 1,000 members, Protestant, pays $160,000 including housing subsidy.

That's a decent wage for a metropolitan area in the US, I think.

What is the median home price in the area?
 
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Paidiske

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In my experience Christians think and speak of a pastor's salary and money in a much different way than they do their own, and I say that's a violation of the, "Golden Rule".

I think that's because they don't really think of it as the pastor's money. They think of it as their hard-earned money, which they put in the plate to give to God... so how dare the pastor spend some of their money on *insert whatever item here*?

And that's a boundaries issue; failing to recognise the difference between the pastor, as a private person, and the pastor, as the person fulfilling a church office. The truth is the pastor is both of those things at the same time (private person and person fulfilling a church office), but different aspects of life pertain to each of those things.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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I think that's because they don't really think of it as the pastor's money. They think of it as their hard-earned money, which they put in the plate to give to God... so how dare the pastor spend some of their money on *insert whatever item here*?

And that's a boundaries issue; failing to recognise the difference between the pastor, as a private person, and the pastor, as the person fulfilling a church office. The truth is the pastor is both of those things at the same time (private person and person fulfilling a church office), but different aspects of life pertain to each of those things.

Good point.

Good point.

IMO, far too many people want the pastor to live like a church mouse - on crumbs, and you're probably right, it's because they consider his pay their money still.
 
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Greg J.

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In some lower socio-economic areas, it might be a better model to look at the pastor job as a missionary position. There's missionary-minded people around (amazingly, thanks to God). My church has 1 pastor for each 100-130 people and they each get a stipend from the church, but are expected to seek other sources for the rest of their costs of living. I'm proud to be a member of a church with a structure like that. It means that the pastors have incentive stay close to the Lord, and it helps them to remain humble. I honor them from my heart more than I ever have honored a pastor in the past. As a congregation member, I would be swift to try to find a way to give them whatever they ask for.

The bottom line for me is that a congregation's responsibility is to be paying their pastor a salary based on market value (how much other pastors in the area are paid) which takes into account how much talent, education, and experience they have. I may be swayed by having only dealt with this issue in the corporate world, but I also can't think of a Biblical reason to vary from that. Pastors have to live in the world just like everyone else. God frequently gives congregations pastors not that dissimilar to them. If a greedy congregation wanted a humble, poorly paid pastor because that's how they view a good pastor, I wouldn't be surprised if the Lord rebuked them. It is more important that the pastor be able to relate to the people of the congregation, and they to him. The first thing missionaries do is establish a rapport with the people where he/she is, because without that, what they say has little weight. In a pastoral situation, who wants to go talk to someone who "can't understand" what their problems are like?

Corporate CEOs get paid "ridiculous" amounts of money because that is their market value. People look at their salaries aghast and think something like "they don't deserve to be paid that much," but that attitude springs from jealousy or ignorance, and often self-righteousness. No company needs to pay them like that, but when there is a high demand for certain individuals, they have to decide whether to pay it or look for someone else. If a CEO wanted to be paid too much, companies simply would look elsewhere. It is the company board of directors (who represent the company owners) that are responsible in a competitive market for CEO's high salaries, not the CEOs themselves.

It is in general a negative for a church to be known to pay their pastor poorly, unless it is in missionary-like circumstances. And rightfully so, since being a good pastor is a hard job with long hours which never halts the pastor from being the congregation's shepherd, even when they are on vacation. (I am reminded of medical doctors.)

Most importantly, it is not the congregation's business what a pastor spends their money on, and absolutely no business of the pundits that ridicule prosperous TV pastors. The idea that we are to tell brothers and sisters if they are doing wrong (such as giving a bad image to pastors) is misapplied terribly (consider each person's God-given authority over others), although much less in practice than when musing about the issue. Those who think they have the right to judge highly paid pastors because the image they project reflects on the kingdom need to remember that the kingdom has a king, and they aren't him.

Pastors are only accountable to whom they answer in their church structure and God. The idea that pastors be accountable to their congregation is contrary to God's nature regarding what authority he grants to whom. The closest thing is to be accountable as a brother to the elders. Congregations that want a pastor to be their employee are not trying to employ a Biblical pastor, they are looking for a Sunday school tutor. They lose out on the good that God has commanded for those under authority. In practice who has the authority to do what it isn't so black and white. Pastors can have both good or bad relationships with their congregants regardless of who is in authority. But the bottom line is that behind the scenes God is going to be upholding his expressed nature. It is up to us to take advantage of that to be blessed in the long-run or to resist it.
 
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