How much of your gross income do you spend on healthcare.

[parousia70]

Citation requested.

Please show that 30% of what you pay to insurance companies go to executive bonuses.

You can start here:

Detroit-based Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan recorded a $120 million operating gain for 2020 on total revenues of $30.1 billion across all lines of business that includes health insurance and Lansing-based worker’s compensation provider Accident Fund Insurance Co.
​

30% of 30.1 billion = 9.03 billion - please show where Michigan Blue Cross paid 9 billion dollars in executive bonuses last year.

Thank you.

​

Don’t be obtuse.
30% overhead includes bonuses But of course is not exclusive to them.

You do know the definition of “overhead”, right?

The point is, private health insurance has 10 times the overhead costs of government run plans, And there is no single individual Who is exercising $750 million in stock options off the overhead of government run health insurance.

I’d be happy to google those citations for you if you’d rather not Google them yourself.

There are plenty of ways in our society for venture capitalists to get insanely more rich than they already are. I’m just wondering why you think capitalizing on the suffering, injury and illness of American citizens NEEDS to be one of those ways?

 

[GreekOrthodox]

EXACTLY!!But they do provide a service that we are forced to pay for as individuals do they not? They just don’t do it for a profit. Why is it OK for the military to do that in your view, to the tune of billions and billions - even TRILLIONS of tax dollars spent with zero financial ROI to the American public, But not OK to have available health insurance that operates similarly?

Because this:

is cooler than this:

(I should know... I work in a hospital and can see the Ford carriers being built from my office)

 

[parousia70]

Because this:

is cooler than this:

(I should know... I work in a hospital and can see the Ford carriers being built from my office)

Bingo.
Having Health insurance just straight up isn’t as sexy as having bigger guns than anyone else.
We seem to be willing to pay through the teeth for the sexy stuff like aircraft carriers and stealth bombers, but not the boring, mundane, nerdy stuff like Heath insurance.

 

[hislegacy]

It's different because you'd be paying a 2-3% overhead instead of a 30% overhead that goes to executive Bonuses.

Citation requested.

Please show that 30% of what you pay to insurance companies go to executive bonuses.

Don’t be obtuse.
30% overhead includes bonuses But of course is not exclusive to them.

There is nothing obtuse about asking a poster to support their claim with facts.

 

[hislegacy]

neither does this

Cure this:

 

[hislegacy]

That didn’t answer my question. I asked why health insurance should be a business venture.

Because it is. Right now - in real life.

It is a business by definition as previously supported with facts.

The only thing that would change is who is controlling the business. The money and the power of 1/7th of the US economy should NEVER, EVER be in the hands of politicians and their lobbyist

 

[hislegacy]

EXACTLY!!But they do provide a service that we are forced to pay for as individuals do they not? They just don’t do it for a profit. Why is it OK for the military to do that in your view, to the tune of billions and billions - even TRILLIONS of tax dollars spent with zero financial ROI to the American public, But not OK to have available health insurance that operates similarly?

Re-read the definition of what a business is and you will see your error.

Second, as previously shown the military budget is less than 1/3rd of what the healthcare budget is projected to be.

If you really think healthcare run by governments is cost effective, look at the middle class income tax in two places:

First the report from the CBO estimating taxes rise to 31-40% (already cited)

Second, look at the middle class income tax rate of the countries that already do.

 

[parousia70]

There is nothing obtuse about asking a poster to support their claim with facts.

As I elaborated, What you contended was my claim, was not my claim at all, And you’re smart enough to know better.

 

[parousia70]

neither does this

Cure this:

View attachment 295838

Has this cured that yet?
How much more do you say we need to spend on this before we decide it doesn’t work to cure that?

And of course I would argue that a strong social safety net does indeed prevent radicalism and extremism much more effectively than a fleet of aircraft carriers can.

 

[parousia70]

Because it is. Right now - in real life.

It is a business by definition as previously supported with facts.

Circular reasoning.

Again, why do you believe the suffering, injury and illness of American citizens NEEDS TO BE a vehicle for venture capitalists to multiply their millions?

And no, “because it already is” is not an answer.

 

[parousia70]

Re-read the definition of what a business is and you will see your error.

There is no error on my part.
A business’ only priority is to turn a profit. In fact you cease being a business, by definition, when you fail to turn a profit.

There is no other motivation for being in business.

I just don’t get the obsession With claiming that caring for the suffering injury and illness of American citizens must be cemented, and by definition take a back seat, to the profit motive?

You have yet to offer a reason for this view of yours that could be considered cogent or sober.

 

[hislegacy]

As I elaborated, What you contended was my claim, was not my claim at all, And you’re smart enough to know better.

I quoted your claim. It speaks for itself.

Circular reasoning.

Again, why do you believe the suffering, injury and illness of American citizens NEEDS TO BE a vehicle for venture capitalists to multiply their millions?

And no, “because it already is” is not an answer.

I never said such a thing - that are your thoughts, not mine.

Why would I want 1/7th of the US economy controlled by an organization that completely fails in budgeting and execution?

Do you think the billions of dollars involved along with the trillions in additional tax payer monies would be in better hands?

Why have you not answered any of my questions?

 

[parousia70]

neither does this

Cure this:

View attachment 295838

I don’t remember the guys dressed in black killing 500,000 of us this past year, but if you can link me to that stat, I’d be happy to examine it.

 

[parousia70]

I quoted your claim. It speaks for itself.

I amended it to clarify since it don’t come across the way I intended. Thanks for pointing that out.

I never said such a thing - that are your thoughts, not mine.

You are the one saying health insurance needs to be run by for-profit corporations who have venture capitalists at their helm taking millions off the top. I still haven’t seen a cogent or sober reason why you believe this is necessary.

Why would I want 1/7th of the US economy controlled by an organization that completely fails in budgeting and execution?

Why would I want the mechanism that allows citizens to access healthcare without forcing them into bankruptcy to be controlled by an organization that is only answerable to its shareholders for how much profit it turns every quarter?

Do you think the billions of dollars involved along with the trillions in additional tax payer monies would be in better hands?

I definitely don’t believe taxpayer money in the hands of organizations accountable only to their shareholders is money placed in better hands than in the hands of a government accountable to we the people.
You are of course free to Blindly trust the for profit corporations and venture capitalists and believe they are looking out for your best interest first and foremost, And not worry about them having any accountability to the citizenry at all.
I’m just wired differently.

Why have you not answered any of my questions?

Which ones would those be? That you don’t like my answers hardly means I didn’t answer them.

How about next post we each list all of the questions that the other didn’t answer? I’m guessing I can list more of them, but let’s find out shall we?

 

[hislegacy]

Well, there ya go! We have a difference of opinions.

 

[FenderTL5]

If you really think healthcare run by governments is cost effective, look at the middle class income tax in two places:
First the report from the CBO estimating taxes rise to 31-40% (already cited)
.

I just opened my pay stub from this past week (40 hours, I'm paid weekly).
The deductions for health, dental and vision coverage from my pay check is 201.6% of my Federal Income Tax withholding.

As a round number illustration; based on a 40 hour work week, for every $10 of Federal Income Tax withheld , my current insurance withholding is $20.16
That is just the premium, it does not take into account that I also have to pay a 15K deductible before insurance pays a Nickle.

 

[hislegacy]

You are the one saying health insurance needs to be run by for-profit corporations who have venture capitalists at their helm taking millions off the top. I still haven’t seen a cogent or sober reason why you believe this is necessary.

Negative - that is found NOWHERE in my comments. And you are smarter than that -

What I did say, and say repeatedly, is that our health insurance businesses should NOT be run by the Government, who has failed miserably and demonstrably for the last 200 years at running anything fiscally sound.

Remember these promises on healthcare?

If you like your current healthcare you can keep it - except when your plans don't qualify with the new guidelines. (I really don't need help with pregnancy issues).

PolitiFact - Lie of the Year: 'If you like your health care plan, you can keep it'​

Cost for Healthcare will go down with Obamacare - it went up 200% and more.

The seismic effects of the Affordable Care Act on insurance markets continue to be felt nearly eight years after its enactment. Premiums for individual coverage more than doubled between 2013 and 2017. Much of that increase resulted from Obamacare's new regulations. Some regulations-such as essential health benefits and actuarial value requirements-had discrete effects on premiums.​

So please, tell why it would be different if they had total control? Answer it would be worse based on past actions and history.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

When I did some very scratch the surface historical research, basically, most industrial nations has private insurance until one major event: World War 2. Afterwards, most nations went to a national system for healthcare except for the US. Basically since we did not have the massive destruction that devastated Europe, North Africa and major parts of Asia, we kept up with the privately funded healthcare. Although there a lot of flaws with government involvement, personally, I would push for it. In my case, I have a pretty decent plan through my employer, while my wife is the one with chronic medical issues with one shoulder, one knee already replaced, and the other knee will need replacement this year. If something happens to me, she doesnt have the ability to get her own insurance. So I definitely would like to see a stronger public healthcare option.