How much of CCM?

[dms1972]

Was there deliberate strategy by the christian music companies in the 80s and 90s to provide christian alternative versions of secular bands. I cannot help notice similiarities between the likes of Margaret Becker and Heart and some others.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I don't think it was a strategy of the music publishers rather than popularity of the artists of the time. I'm pretty sure that many Christian artists did listen to secular music at the time and if they liked how groups sounded they copied some of it just like we see throughout time a style of music gets popular like Disco did and everyone started just "doing it". As a Christian that has a collection of music from that time period I do see similarities but also some differences too. I'm glad CCM came about because I grew up going to churches that played pipe organs and sang from dusty hymnals. If you are going to get the attention of the lost you often have to talk their language and that can be music.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Was there deliberate strategy by the christian music companies in the 80s and 90s to provide christian alternative versions of secular bands. I cannot help notice similiarities between the likes of Margaret Becker and Heart and some others.

I remember that, it was part of thought replacement therapy for those newer to the faith. Some of those songs became part of the common songs sung in churches.

 

[dms1972]

But was it created with that purpose in mind?

I can see how the song Never for Nothing by Margaret Becker and Heart's Alone are quite similar except in the message.

As said above most christian groups like Petra carried over influences from their pre-christian days.

 

[Eftsoon]

Was there deliberate strategy by the christian music companies in the 80s and 90s to provide christian alternative versions of secular bands. I cannot help notice similiarities between the likes of Margaret Becker and Heart and some others.

This still happens today stylistically. I wish that Christian artists would try too develop home-grown artistic expressions. Gospel music was the last great musical form to emerge out of Christianity.

 

[dms1972]

If you are going to get the attention of the lost you often have to talk their language and that can be music.

Except I am not sure a lot of CCM I recall was evangelistic. It was aimed at christians.

 

[WolfGate]

It was definitely a strategy, and as much business focused as cultural or religious. The first scattered attempts at merging Christian lyrics with popular music had happened in the 60s, but didn't gain traction until Larry Norman's "Upon This Rock" was widely released in 1969. Once labels saw the potential to increase business and artists saw the chance to spread their message more effectively, it made sense to follow a "copy the secular" strategy. Conservative parents would like it because they could try and direct their kid's taste from secular to Christian artists. Evangelists saw it as a tool to subtly get non-believers influenced by Christian messages. Labels felt like they could sell more records if people already knew they liked the style of the songs.

Sometimes the ties were subtle, such as trying to copy the musical tone or singing style of someone popular. Sometimes it was more direct. I used to watch Pat Robertson's talk show some back then, and he would introduce Christian artists by mentioning that if your friends or kids like <insert popular secular artist here>, they would like his guest.

A whole other conversation can be had about how many of the CCM artists lacked in quality to their secular counterpart, but that is a different post.

Today, the copying is not needed and therefore not as prevalent. CCM is a large industry on its own. In reality, it now suffers from its success. When it started, labels were taking a chance on something different to try and create a market. Now that they have a formula for success, they seldom introduce anything new or creative. Even Praise and Worship, which has created a sound unlike any other style with the heavy layered delays/reverbs, etc. and musical build, can be pretty formulaic, though with groups like Maverick City forming recently the artists themselves are showing a desire to expand in that genre.

* Yes, much of what is above is just my opinion! *

 

[Eftsoon]

Even Praise and Worship, which has created a sound unlike any other style with the heavy layered delays/reverbs, etc. and musical build, can be pretty formulaic, though with groups like Maverick City forming recently the artists themselves are showing a desire to expand in that genr

Perhaps. I have to admit, there is a certain CCM sound. There are a few mainstream artists who court Christianity, and there are some very specific chord patterns and textures which scream CCM, and which act as a signal (to me at least). I can tell that they played in worship bands on their way into the mainstream.

The pedal boards are very specific too. El Capitan/Strymon are pretty popular for those huge panoramic sounds. You're right also, they tend to feed these with delays to add even more sustain. Pads are usually from the Nord series, so there's some unity from that alone.

I think that this is probably an interesting subject for investigation, particularly, the 'why'? and the relationship between CCM music and contemporary worship. Did contemporary worship styles inform the music or the other way round?

 

[WolfGate]

Perhaps. I have to admit, there is a certain CCM sound. There are a few mainstream artists who court Christianity, and there are some very specific chord patterns and textures which scream CCM, and which act as a signal (to me at least). I can tell that they played in worship bands on their way into the mainstream.

The pedal boards are very specific too. El Capitan/Strymon are pretty popular for those huge panoramic sounds. You're right also, they tend to feed these with delays to add even more sustain. Pads are usually from the Nord series, so there's some unity from that alone.

I think that this is probably an interesting subject for investigation, particularly, the 'why'? and the relationship between CCM music and contemporary worship. Did contemporary worship styles inform the music or the other way round?

I guess semantics are important. I was referencing CCM and P&W as different genres. CCM musically is very much like today's secular music sound. P&W is the one that uses the more panoramic sounds. In my experience, I see a small minority of songs in churches being CCM with the vast majority being P&W. Yes, it's semantics, and you'll get some P&W played on K-Love and other stations, but to me the intended use of the songs is very different, along with the sound, which results in 2 separate genres of Christian music.

 

[Eftsoon]

I guess semantics are important. I was referencing CCM and P&W as different genres. CCM musically is very much like today's secular music sound. P&W is the one that uses the more panoramic sounds. In my experience, I see a small minority of songs in churches being CCM with the vast majority being P&W. Yes, it's semantics, and you'll get some P&W played on K-Love and other stations, but to me the intended use of the songs is very different, along with the sound, which results in 2 separate genres of Christian music.

I wasn't aware that they were 2 separate genres. I've never thought of p&w as anything other than CCM, i.e. literally 'contemporary christian music'. I'm thinking of a lot of CCM songs as played in churches who will often add long sections for worship.
The distinction seems a little bit unecessary at any rate.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Except I am not sure a lot of CCM I recall was evangelistic. It was aimed at christians.

I agree with that entirely that a lot of CCM was either worship or not evangelistic at all but I think that the message seeps through to those who are seeking even if not evangelistic in nature.

 

[WolfGate]

I wasn't aware that they were 2 separate genres. I've never thought of p&w as anything other than CCM, i.e. literally 'contemporary christian music'. I'm thinking of a lot of CCM songs as played in churches who will often add long sections for worship.
The distinction seems a little bit unecessary at any rate.

Yeah, I guess depending on your purposes it can be a bit unnecessary. Coming from years of worship ministry and leading worship, the specific culture I was in saw a pretty big difference. P&W we viewed as specifically modern songs or arrangements intended to be sung in corporate worship. CCM we saw as essentially all other popular styles of Christian songs. Obviously there is some crossover on Christian radio. Stylistically, we've already discussed a bit.

I would grant that P&W is a subset of Christian Music and is modern, so I can easily see it being the subset of CCM that you would play in church. Perhaps we made a greater distinction because we were concerned with picking appropriate songs and then how to best play them., and that meant much of what is out there we would never select.

 

[Eftsoon]

Yeah, I guess depending on your purposes it can be a bit unnecessary. Coming from years of worship ministry and leading worship, the specific culture I was in saw a pretty big difference. P&W we viewed as specifically modern songs or arrangements intended to be sung in corporate worship. CCM we saw as essentially all other popular styles of Christian songs. Obviously there is some crossover on Christian radio. Stylistically, we've already discussed a bit.

I would grant that P&W is a subset of Christian Music and is modern, so I can easily see it being the subset of CCM that you would play in church. Perhaps we made a greater distinction because we were concerned with picking appropriate songs and then how to best play them., and that meant much of what is out there we would never select.

I hear you, the distinction is definitely a valuable one if you're in ministry.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I wasn't aware that they were 2 separate genres. I've never thought of p&w as anything other than CCM, i.e. literally 'contemporary christian music'. I'm thinking of a lot of CCM songs as played in churches who will often add long sections for worship.
The distinction seems a little bit unecessary at any rate.

I agree that there is 2 separate genres but many CCM songs are also P&W songs while the opposite is often less true we see fewer P&W songs that are also CCM. Many groups make songs that fall in both categories even though they aren't necessarily targeting group worship. One could say CCM targets the individual's tastes while P&W is a group target. CCM was a sort of replacement of secular music competing with secular artists in the realm mostly of I believe lyrics and topic of songs while often using similar popular sounds as until it became very widespread and popular the competition was less with other Christian groups than with secular groups. As time progressed some Christian artists even had songs that crossed over like Amy Grant who later drifted more secular than Christian but did finally struggle to make her way back. I think making music that sounds like and competed with secular music back then had both advantages and problems in that it did get attention when artists had songs that did cross over but at a risk of the artists fame making them cross over and so dilute Jesus out of their songs that in doing so drifted away from God altogether for profit and fame. There was a balancing act to appeal to non believers in sound and even in lyrics without just making it a "feel good" song about good things that makes God all but invisible. In other words P&W music as about addressing God directly as the topic of the song while CCM can from mention God in a positive way all the way to also a P&W genre song. Many artists have mixed what I guess you can call concentration of God in their songs to range from being a personal type song to evangelism to P&W.

There is many other Christian Genres out there like Christian Rock, Christian Rap, and lately been hearing Christian country songs more and more on CCM type stations. Just about any secular Genre now has a Christian group that essentially is the same sounding but Christ centered. As I have a lot of CCM I think it could be considered more along the lines of pop music in the 70s and 80s and such rather a wide blanket label that covers a bunch of stuff that often has music and groups that are also other genres that also are Christian.
Many groups that started in the CCM genre era have their own distinctive sounds that also can be other genres but I think that in the early days there was Gospel, Praise and Worship and then everything else and the everything else got grouped under CCM for the most part because it was somewhat a minority of the music out there for Christians. I think the CCM label these days is more generic and too wide of a scope to really be genre that defines what music it covers.

I think that todays P&W and Gospel music have been influenced by CCM genre groups and that they also have been influenced by the more evangelistic nature and more message centered of P&W and Gospel music.
In other words as time progressed from the 80s and 90s the concentration and quality of Christian music in general has blurred the distinct genres in one fashion but also created a market/audience for more distinct genres also.

Yeah, I know this is rambling but I truly am thankful for CCM music as when I was backslid from my childhood and essentially lost to the world CCM music had a great appeal to me as in 90s the popular music started changing and I found that Christian music even without the Gospel message oozing from every word brought peace and uplifted me for years and years I didn't want to give my life up to God (again) but I was drawn to the music that has kept me sane but what I believe the Holy Spirit drawing me back to him through music (CCM).

I have a lot of songs on my phone now as I've collected hundreds of CDs used at thrift stores and flea markets over the decades and stream them along with my 70s and 80s secular stuff and surprisingly my high rated/favorite song have more Christian than secular artists. I do like Christian music but a lot of CCM artists and songs that I have do sort of sound like the others while a few stand out as either sounding like some secular groups or their own unique sound. One group that I like that is very interesting in scope is TobyMac. I'm not into rap as a genre at all and some of his songs are bleh as they are totally rap (I call crap music) while mixing some rapping in a decent song doesn't necessarily make it less likeable to me at all if done right can make it appealing for the uniqueness.

As I went almost entirely to Christian music from the 90s and beyond as hip hop and trance and other cookie cutter music and too many sound alikes continued I lost interest in listening to new music of secular artists and found that many Christian artists and groups have experimented with new ideas and sound in their songs. In other words the Christian music market while not nearly as encompassing as secular is pretty robust now.

 

[Eftsoon]

I agree that there is 2 separate genres but many CCM songs are also P&W songs while the opposite is often less true we see fewer P&W songs that are also CCM. Many groups make songs that fall in both categories even though they aren't necessarily targeting group worship. One could say CCM targets the individual's tastes while P&W is a group target. CCM was a sort of replacement of secular music competing with secular artists in the realm mostly of I believe lyrics and topic of songs while often using similar popular sounds as until it became very widespread and popular the competition was less with other Christian groups than with secular groups. As time progressed some Christian artists even had songs that crossed over like Amy Grant who later drifted more secular than Christian but did finally struggle to make her way back. I think making music that sounds like and competed with secular music back then had both advantages and problems in that it did get attention when artists had songs that did cross over but at a risk of the artists fame making them cross over and so dilute Jesus out of their songs that in doing so drifted away from God altogether for profit and fame. There was a balancing act to appeal to non believers in sound and even in lyrics without just making it a "feel good" song about good things that makes God all but invisible. In other words P&W music as about addressing God directly as the topic of the song while CCM can from mention God in a positive way all the way to also a P&W genre song. Many artists have mixed what I guess you can call concentration of God in their songs to range from being a personal type song to evangelism to P&W.

There is many other Christian Genres out there like Christian Rock, Christian Rap, and lately been hearing Christian country songs more and more on CCM type stations. Just about any secular Genre now has a Christian group that essentially is the same sounding but Christ centered. As I have a lot of CCM I think it could be considered more along the lines of pop music in the 70s and 80s and such rather a wide blanket label that covers a bunch of stuff that often has music and groups that are also other genres that also are Christian.
Many groups that started in the CCM genre era have their own distinctive sounds that also can be other genres but I think that in the early days there was Gospel, Praise and Worship and then everything else and the everything else got grouped under CCM for the most part because it was somewhat a minority of the music out there for Christians. I think the CCM label these days is more generic and too wide of a scope to really be genre that defines what music it covers.

I think that todays P&W and Gospel music have been influenced by CCM genre groups and that they also have been influenced by the more evangelistic nature and more message centered of P&W and Gospel music.
In other words as time progressed from the 80s and 90s the concentration and quality of Christian music in general has blurred the distinct genres in one fashion but also created a market/audience for more distinct genres also.

Yeah, I know this is rambling but I truly am thankful for CCM music as when I was backslid from my childhood and essentially lost to the world CCM music had a great appeal to me as in 90s the popular music started changing and I found that Christian music even without the Gospel message oozing from every word brought peace and uplifted me for years and years I didn't want to give my life up to God (again) but I was drawn to the music that has kept me sane but what I believe the Holy Spirit drawing me back to him through music (CCM).

I have a lot of songs on my phone now as I've collected hundreds of CDs used at thrift stores and flea markets over the decades and stream them along with my 70s and 80s secular stuff and surprisingly my high rated/favorite song have more Christian than secular artists. I do like Christian music but a lot of CCM artists and songs that I have do sort of sound like the others while a few stand out as either sounding like some secular groups or their own unique sound. One group that I like that is very interesting in scope is TobyMac. I'm not into rap as a genre at all and some of his songs are bleh as they are totally rap (I call crap music) while mixing some rapping in a decent song doesn't necessarily make it less likeable to me at all if done right can make it appealing for the uniqueness.

As I went almost entirely to Christian music from the 90s and beyond as hip hop and trance and other cookie cutter music and too many sound alikes continued I lost interest in listening to new music of secular artists and found that many Christian artists and groups have experimented with new ideas and sound in their songs. In other words the Christian music market while not nearly as encompassing as secular is pretty robust now.

Christian folk is definitely a thriving area. There are a lot of rootsy, earthy groups out there.I see the distinction now a little clearer. I would still call it all CCM, but , as with most genres, it can be subdivided further.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Christian folk is definitely a thriving area. There are a lot of rootsy, earthy groups out there.I see the distinction now a little clearer. I would still call it all CCM, but , as with most genres, it can be subdivided further.

I agree. I have thousands of songs and trying to use just 1 genre for a song at times doesn't work too well even 2 genres don't cover things when you want to play a certain genre of songs and an album by an artist that is considered under a single genre often has a few songs that are of another genre too.
Personally I am glad of the increasing variety of Christian music as a lot of P&W music tend to sound way too much the same to me using similar instruments and such that having a rock song or blues or so on can break up the monotony.