How might Satan Mimic the Second Coming in the Clouds of Heaven?

SongOnTheWind · Jun 9, 2021

Hammster said:
Is it possible, textually, that end of the age is referring to the end of the old covenant?

Just to be clear, the fact that Jesus mentions the tribulation here, such as has never happened before, nor will it ever happen again, doesn't fit the simple end of the old covenant. That should be that from His resurrection onwards, there would be no more tribulation, and yet how much suffering has the whole world endured since then? Are you saying that when the anti-christ does come and demands that those who refuse to worship him must die, and that no one is allowed to buy or sell except by receiving his mark, that that would not result in tribulation? That that kind of control would not produce unprecedented suffering?

Again, a simple chronology would be useful. Again, if you don't want to give one, that's ok, I can move on from here

Hammster · Jun 9, 2021

SongOnTheWind said:
Just to be clear, the fact that Jesus mentions the tribulation here, such as has never happened before, nor will it ever happen again, doesn't fit the simple end of the old covenant. That should be that from His resurrection onwards, there would be no more tribulation, and yet how much suffering has the whole world endured since then? Are you saying that when the anti-christ does come and demands that those who refuse to worship him must die, and that no one is allowed to buy or sell except by receiving his mark, that that would not result in tribulation? That that kind of control would not produce unprecedented suffering?

Again, a simple chronology would be useful. Again, if you don't want to give one, that's ok, I can move on from here

I’m not sure what chronology you want. But basically all of the events in Matthew 24 happen by 70 AD, and culminate with the destruction of the temple. “This generation” means exactly that.

SongOnTheWind · Jun 9, 2021

So this coming in the clouds is Jesus's judgement, to judge the dead and reward His saints as laid out in Rev 11, all in 70 AD?

Hammster · Jun 9, 2021

SongOnTheWind said:
So this coming in the clouds is Jesus's judgement, to judge the dead and reward His saints as laid out in Rev 11, all in 70 AD?

That depends on what you think judging the dead and rewarding the Saints means.

Thuycidides · Jun 9, 2021

AdamjEdgar said:
Jesus said in Matthew 24:
26So if they tell you, ‘There He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.29Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

‘The sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.b’30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,c and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.d 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

Now we know that Satan is well read in the Bible, he knows the scriptures as well as anyone. In light of that, i am concerned about the statement in Matthew 24:24

24"For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible."

So I am wondering, how might Satan attempt to mimic the second coming in the clouds of heaven?
What biblical references exist that suggest God would either allow or disallow Satan the opportunity to mimic the Second Coming in the clouds of heaven (our atmosphere). No doubt Satan will attempt to mimic this event.

Jesus' return is on a white horse. (Rev 19)

An antichist's 'return' will be on a whited horse. (Rev 6)

Bottom line: beware of them that come to save your day with something 'better and greater', when you thought you were already saved by the standard faith of Jesus.

Navair2 · Jun 9, 2021

Hammster said:
Did you look at Isaiah 19?

Yes I did.

I see that it's a prophecy of the 1,000 years.
Take a look at Isaiah 19:16-25.

Navair2 · Jun 9, 2021

Hammster said:
Coming on the clouds is judgement language, as seen in Isaiah 19.

I agree.
He is coming to judge, and to establish His kingdom on the throne of His father David at Jerusalem.

" I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." ( Daniel 7:13-14 ).

Navair2 · Jun 9, 2021

Hammster said:
But basically all of the events in Matthew 24 happen by 70 AD, and culminate with the destruction of the temple.

" Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." ( Matthew 24:29-31 ).

Did the above happen yet?

I don't know about you, but I see that most of the events haven't happened yet...
but that they will, and it all culminates with His gathering His elect together, and the contents of many passages, including Zechariah 14, will happen at that time.

Aldebaran · Jun 9, 2021

Hammster said:
That depends on what you think judging the dead and rewarding the Saints means.

Then where in the biblical timeline do you believe we're in right now, and what is the next thing we should be looking for to happen?

Hammster · Jun 9, 2021

Navair2 said:
Yes I did.

I see that it's a prophecy of the 1,000 years.
Take a look at Isaiah 19:16-25.

Does riding on a swift cloud mean a physical appearance of Christ?

Hammster · Jun 9, 2021

Navair2 said:
I agree.
He is coming to judge, and to establish His kingdom on the throne of His father David at Jerusalem.

His kingdom is already established

Hammster · Jun 9, 2021

Navair2 said:
" Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." ( Matthew 24:29-31 ).

Did the above happen yet?

I don't know about you, but I see that most of the events haven't happened yet...
but that they will, and it all culminates with His gathering His elect together, and the contents of many passages, including Zechariah 14, will happen at that time.

All of that happened.

Hammster · Jun 9, 2021

Aldebaran said:
Then where in the biblical timeline do you believe we're in right now, and what is the next thing we should be looking for to happen?

What makes you think we should be looking for anything? The last I checked, the command to make disciples of all the nations is still in effect.

Aldebaran · Jun 9, 2021

Hammster said:
What makes you think we should be looking for anything? The last I checked, the command to make disciples of all the nations is still in effect.

Ok, and what about Satan being bound, and the end of sin? When does that come about?

Navair2 · Jun 9, 2021

Hammster said:
Does riding on a swift cloud mean a physical appearance of Christ?

Yes, it does.
See Matthew 24 and Mark 13, as well as Revelation 19:11-21.

Hammster said:
His kingdom is already established

Zechariah 14 already happened?
Micah 4 already happened?

According to who?

When did His feet stand on the Mount of Olives, and it divide itself in two from east to west?
When did the Lord Jesus rule in Jerusalem from His father David's throne?
When did living waters go out from Jerusalem?

I have never heard of any of these prophecies being fulfilled.

Aldebaran · Jun 9, 2021

Navair2 said:
He sent His angels forth and gathered His elect from the 4 winds?
Form every corner of the earth and from Heaven.

All of them.

Let me state it again...
You're telling me that Anti-Christ already came and committed the abomination of desolation, that the Tribulation already happened and that the first resurrection already happened.

Then all that's left is the second resurrection...
The one unto death.

I have news for you...
None of us are elect if all of that already happened.

Still waiting for New Jerusalem to come down out of Heaven too.

Navair2 · Jun 9, 2021

Hammster said:
All of that happened.

He sent His angels forth and gathered His elect from the 4 winds?
From every corner of the earth and from every corner of Heaven.

All of them.

Let me state it again...

You're telling me that Anti-Christ already came and committed the abomination of desolation, that the Tribulation already happened and that the first resurrection ( His gathering of His elect, their being raised from the dead and those that are alive and remain being changed in the twinkling of an eye ) already happened.

Then all that's left is the second resurrection;
The one unto death.
I have news for you...

None of us are elect if all of that has already happened.

Navair2 · Jun 9, 2021

Aldebaran said:
Ok, and what about Satan being bound, and the end of sin? When does that come about?

A-millennialists believe and teach that Satan is already bound, and is no longer deceiving the nations.

Also, we're apparently already in the time of what is described here:
Isaiah 11.
Isaiah 12.
Revelation 20:4-5.

Isaiah 13:6-22 has somehow already happened.
Isaiah 14:1-2 is already happening.

Aldebaran · Jun 9, 2021

Navair2 said:
A-millennialists believe and teach that Satan is already bound, and is no longer deceiving the nations.

Also, we're apparently already in the time of what is described here:
Isaiah 11.
Isaiah 12.
Revelation 20:4-5.

Isaiah 13:6-22 has somehow already happened.
Isaiah 14:1-2 is already happening.

It seems that contrary to this:

" But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness." ( 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5 )

Apparently that day did overtake us as a thief, contrary to what this says.

I sure would like to hear them defend their position. It would be interesting to see what they come up with if the position really is solid enough for them to believe it.

Hammster · Jun 9, 2021

Aldebaran said:
Ok, and what about Satan being bound, and the end of sin? When does that come about?

I need something specific.

How might Satan Mimic the Second Coming in the Clouds of Heaven?

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