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How Many?

Discussion in 'LCMS / WELS / ELS / LCC' started by Hope1960, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Active Member

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    How many people here go directly, one on one, to confess to their pastor? It seems as though few do at my church, and I never have. I confessed to my priest when I was Catholic but not since then.
     
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  2. jasonMalloy1999

    jasonMalloy1999 Well-Known Member

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    i dont go to church if i need o confess i ask the homie jesus directly as no one understands us better thn jesus
     
  3. tampasteve

    tampasteve ✞Steadfast Lutheran, Messianic leaning ✡ Staff Member Administrator CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team Supporter

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    Please note that this is the Lutheran sub-forum.
     
  4. TKA_TN

    TKA_TN Member

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    I've been LCMS for almost 2 years now. I haven't confessed to my pastor one-on-one. I try to make a habit of examining my conscience and my sins on Sunday mornings before going to church, ask for forgiveness, and then receiving absolution during the service. Maybe I should go to my pastor, but feel like the forgiveness he announces to us does the trick.
     
  5. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

    +3,952
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    While not following the formal setting in Lutheran Service Book, I frequently share my weaknesses with my Pastor, and he shares God's grace through absolution.

    Formal, private confession is offered at our parish every Thursday evening.
     
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  6. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Active Member

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    We don’t have confessionals so we’d have to confess face to face.
     
  7. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

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    Neither do we, so this is how it is done. Kneeling at the altar rail, facing our Pastor standing on the altar side; face to face.
     
  8. Hope1960

    Hope1960 Active Member

    438
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    I think our parishioners (are Lutherans called that?) confess in the pastors office.
     
  9. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

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    If you trust your Pastor, and you most certainly should be able to do so, face to face is the best. If we were to confess anonymously, the best that the Pastor could offer would be some generic words of admonishment, comfort, encouragement. If you know your Pastor, besides the words of our Lord in the absolution, can be tailored to you and your specific circumstances. In the Orthodox Church it is done face to face.
     
  10. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

    +1,359
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    I've only done it a few times. I've done it much more frequently with my family.

    Again, you have to understand that a Lutheran pastor's role is different than a Catholic priest. You are forgiven - always. It's not something that happens in the moment when the pastor announces it. Rather, he is helping you to understand the extent of God's grace and helping you to work through whatever guilt may remain or whatever consequences you're going to face when you leave the confessional.

    So, if you have someone in your life who shares your faith and with whom you are comfortable sharing the deep stuff, that person could be your confessor. It doesn't have to be the pastor.

    As ViaCrucis explained, what the church has done is make sure there is someone who is always available to you for those purposes (if you don't have anyone else), and in whom we can have confidence that church practice will always adhere to the Lutheran confession. That person is your pastor.
     
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  11. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

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    You are aware that this is the LCMS/LCC WELS and ELS forum, right?

    While it good to confess our personal transgressions to friends and family, and to discuss our short comings, that is not the same as confessing to a Pastor.

    Respectfully, that is a very fast-and-lose interpretation of Lutheran theology, doctrine and practice.

    While any Christian can forgive, only a called and ordained pastor can forgive on behalf of the Church. Just like the Eucharist and Baptism, our confessions are clear that for the sake of good order in the Church the administration of the Word and Sacrament ministry is to be administered by clergy. The Augsburg Confession states that Confession and Absolution is a Sacrament; elsewhere it called a sacramental act.

    If you are a member of a conservative traditional Church, then your pastor will respect the seal of the confessional. Your pastor also will have greater spiritual insight into what is troubling you, and be able to provide sound, spiritual counseling; something that may be hit or miss with family and friends.
     
  12. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    I am LCMS.

    Agreed, and I said that. The belief I was trying to dispel is that one is not forgiven unless forgiven by an ordained minister. It is a common misconception held by many of my Catholic (and Lutheran) friends.

    No, rather it is less formal language than what you used. While I appreciate the care Lutherans have taken to make sure their language is precise, the lengthy nature of it loses more people than maybe you realize. Just about 2 Sundays ago I was shocked, saddened, and flattered all at the same time. Our adult Sunday School has multiple tables, and people tend to sit at the same table every week. After services I told the people at my typical Sunday School table I wouldn't be able to attend. Every single one of them decided they wouldn't either. When I asked why, they said they were too dumb to understand what was going on and they needed a smart person at their table.

    Yep. I never disagreed with that.

    I have a great respect for all pastors, and admire the sacrifice they take on when agreeing to dedicate their life to Christ. It is a huge, intimidating job. Further, I have encouraged @Hope1960 to be speaking with her pastor about these topics. That is always my first recommendation - it is always where one should start. But personal experience has taught me that what you say is not always true. Suffice to say pastors are human just like you and I, and sometimes people must seek other avenues. I don't want people thinking the pastor is always right and there is no alternative. No ex cathedra here.
     
  13. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

    +3,952
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    "Ex cathedra" means with the authority of the office. I think you may need to review our unaltered 1580 edition of the Book of Concord. In our Lutheran Churches, administration of the sacraments are the responsibility of the Pastor, but our Pastors are no "lords" of the means of grace as is the case in the Catholic Church, rather, they are "stewards" of the means of grace, and servants of the word; entrusted with it's right administration. I might also recommend Mueller's Christian Dogmatics.
     
  14. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    Yes I know, and I have a copy of Concord - the LCMS publication of it. I'm not sure what is causing our misunderstandings. My use of the "ex cathedra" term was a reference to claims of papal infallibility (maybe too subtle?) - something Lutherans do not profess. Yet the fact remains many mistakenly believe pastors wield that kind of authority.
     
  15. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

    +3,952
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    A strong support group of Christian family and friends is indeed a blessing. Disrespect for the Pastoral Office is a trend that seems to be gaining traction not only in the LCMS but here in Canada. The attitude that "I know better than Pastor" and "I don't need Pastor for that" or "it's none of Pastors business" is one of the main reasons that we are seeing declining membership, shrinking parishes, sporadic attendees. Interesting fact; we have been working for years towards every Sunday Eucharist; but the fact remains, on Sundays where we sing Matins we have 10% higher attendance than we do on Eucharist Sundays. When we have a festival fall on a non communion Sunday, members of that 10% complain that we have it too often. Our parish is not unique.

    This stems from two issues; loss of respect/wrong understanding of the Sacraments; and lack of respect for the Pastoral office. This trend has spanned 3 very good and blessed Pastors, for as long as I have been a member of that parish.
     
  16. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

    +1,359
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    If you took anything I said as disrespect for pastors or an attitude that they're not needed, you misunderstood me.
     
  17. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

    +3,952
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    Sorry, I have been away and very busy when I got back. I stand by what I wrote. The downplaying of Pastoral Authority is often the cause of the death of congregations. I understand that the position of LCMS is different from LCC on this, and that is truly regrettable.
     
  18. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    My comments had nothing to do with "downplaying Pastoral Authority". What is regrettable is that you continue to misunderstand me and that you would imply I am contributing to the death of congregations when you know nothing of my history - know nothing of the death of congregations I've seen caused by pastors due to sexual immorality, authoritarianism, and abuse of church resources for personal gain.

    Whatever authority pastors may wield, they are still men, not Vicars of Christ (if we're going to resort to capitalizing the offices people venerate).

    I am truly insulted by your behavior, which is too bad given until this conversation I had always held great respect for your posts here.
     
  19. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

    +3,952
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    I'm sorry that you feel as you do. Unfortunately, I was an elder at a congregation where the damage was already done buy members who had shunned pastoral authority, then blamed Pastor for everything that was wrong before he arrived; they did that to 4 consecutive pastors. Same with my present congregation; new pastor want him to fix everything, but will support nothing that he wants to do. Another Church 15 miles away will be close within 3 years for the same reason; another 8 miles away closed 35 years ago because they rejected the authority of the Pastor.

    The list of causes that you cite, I am unaware of here. Maybe a cultural difference, but I now understand why many of our Pastors have came here from the LCMS, and why those we do have most want to distance themselves from the LCMS.

    Thanks for the information.

    Mark
     
  20. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

    +1,359
    Lutheran
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    That happens as well. Church lay members can be horrible. In fact, it seems all people are sinful. I think I read that somewhere ...

    Then you are fortunate. Even in the LCMS, which you seem so fond of slandering, I believe it is a rare thing. But that doesn't mean it never happens. Do you think I'm lying? Do you think it's impossible a pastor could sin, even sin gravely enough to damage his congregation?

    I'm less and less convinced you understand anything at all about the LCMS. But you do seem delighted to think you have evidence that our deficiencies surpass yours. I pray your congregation be blessed by God, and I would prefer you do the same for me.
     
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