How many realms are there?

[Photonfanatic]

Hi all. This is just something that I find to be interesting. I'm calling them realms because... well I just don't know what else to call them. Dimensions. Places. Whatever. The bible makes mention of what would appear to be several different "dimensions". So lets count them. Heaven, would be the most obvious. Its a separate place than this, which we know because when we die, we do not go right back here. We go somewhere else. So that's 1. Then you have hell. That's 2. Then something called "paradise" that's three. Then you have this one, which I'll just call "the universe", which we live in. So that's 4. Then you have tartarus, which would seem to be more like a prison for angels/demons. That would be 5. Cause its not called hell, its called tartarus.

Then you have reference to "the pit" and "the abyss". But iirc, those are both references to hell, right? But then again, I think that the abyss is different from hell cause it says that satan will be cast into the abyss for 1K years. But then after everything else goes on, he will go to hell. It does not say that he will go back to the abyss, but to hell. So perhaps those are different places? Are there any others that you can think of?

 

[Jpark]

Hi all. This is just something that I find to be interesting. I'm calling them realms because... well I just don't know what else to call them. Dimensions. Places. Whatever. The bible makes mention of what would appear to be several different "dimensions". So lets count them. Heaven, would be the most obvious. Its a separate place than this, which we know because when we die, we do not go right back here. We go somewhere else. So that's 1. Then you have hell. That's 2. Then something called "paradise" that's three. Then you have this one, which I'll just call "the universe", which we live in. So that's 4. Then you have tartarus, which would seem to be more like a prison for angels/demons. That would be 5. Cause its not called hell, its called tartarus.

Then you have reference to "the pit" and "the abyss". But iirc, those are both references to hell, right? But then again, I think that the abyss is different from hell cause it says that satan will be cast into the abyss for 1K years. But then after everything else goes on, he will go to hell. It does not say that he will go back to the abyss, but to hell. So perhaps those are different places? Are there any others that you can think of?

I wouldn't say "dimensions" is more suitable than "realms", "places", and "worlds".

Anyways, there are two worlds: physical world and spiritual world. They are in the same location, but they are not the same. What happens in the physical world can have a impact on what happens in the spiritual world (Mark 9:29, Luke 10:18). What happens in the spiritual world can have a impact on what happens in the physical world (Dan. 10:13).

As a matter of fact, there has been a victory in the spiritual world recently...

Anyways, heaven is certainly a physical place, located somewhere in this universe, but it is called heaven because God has set up camp there (like a man sets up camp to rest. And God has rested from creation for quite a long time. But He still gets involved in man's affairs albeit discreetly and obscure). In other words, where God is, there is peace and joy. But if God was not in heaven, it would be a place of nothing.

As for Paradise, that is the same place as heaven. As for the garden of Eden, that was probably a place on earth.

As for hell, that typically refers to the grave, but the grave itself refers to the earth's mantle (Num. 16:29-34). Hades can also refer to the lake of fire.

As for tartarus, abyssos, the pit, and Gehenna,

Tartarus, the abyss, and the pit refer to the earth's core as well, but only demons go there. Perhaps the inner core is where the demons are imprisoned/go to.

Gehenna refers to a physical place, but it is also used to refer to the lake of fire.

So it's very simple:

Heaven = physical place somewhere in the universe
lake of fire = earth's core, possibly outer core
abyss = earth's core, possibly inner core

 

[granpa]

the bible refers to 6 realms.
darkness (hades)
light
air (heaven)
land
sea
eden

light is probably identical to the lake of fire and means the sun

but its more complicated than that.
the bible also refers to 3rd heaven
2nd heaven is probably the universe itself.

 

[Crosssword]

The 7 Heavens

 

[Photonfanatic]

See I have my doubts that heaven and hell and all the other places are physical places in this exact universe. For one thing, that would leave it open for man to conceivably be able to journey there while he was still alive. If it is here in the universe, man can reach it. I even remember some kind of craziness about some norwegians drilling so deep that when they lowered a mic down there, it recorded the sounds of people suffering. I kinda doubt that. Cause that might mean that a man could physically journey there, someday. While he was still alive.

It may sound like science fiction right now today, but there may very well come a day when man masters what would be considered faster than light space travel. Just because you can't break that rule doesn't necessarily mean that it can't be circumvented. Also matter/energy transport (teleportation) is being worked on right now, and they have actually gotten results. Point is, there will come a day (even if its 1000 years from now) when man could actually just show up, unwanted, at these places. It doesn't seem like God would be wanting that. Since man needs to make his choice, and then die in order to get wherever it is that he is going.

Also, if tartarus, hell, and the abyss are all the exact same place, why would they have different names? And why would one be referred to more as a prison, rather than a sort of hellish, lake of fire torture chamber? The bible says that Jesus went to the demon's prison to teach them after he died. That would be to offer them hope if they repented I guess? But the way its worded it just sounds like they were in jail rather than being tortured or something.

 

[tturt]

Here's a couple of Scriptures -

Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

II Kings 2: 11 “And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.”

3rd heaven - 2Co 12:2 “I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.”

 

[Photonfanatic]

Here's a couple of Scriptures -
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Who is he talking to there?

II Kings 2: 11 “And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.”

What are you saying by this? A whirlwind could not have carried anyone through space. If it was speaking literally here, I'd have to guess he went through some kind of gateway or wormhole. Both accepted by science.

3rd heaven - 2Co 12:2 “I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.”

I have no idea what any of this means, I'm afraid. No idea.

 

[Jpark]

What are you saying by this? A whirlwind could not have carried anyone through space. If it was speaking literally here, I'd have to guess he went through some kind of gateway or wormhole. Both accepted by science.



I have no idea what any of this means, I'm afraid. No idea.

But this whirlwind was accompanied with chariots of fire. You overlooked that.

Jeremiah 4:13 "Behold, he goes up like clouds,
And his chariots like the whirlwind;
His horses are swifter than eagles
Woe to us, for we are ruined!"

This wasn't a ordinary whirlwind. It was probably a manifestation of angels, a visible one (contrast with 2 Kings 6:17, which was a spiritual one). After all, Scripture does say that His angels will gather up the elect. To people who cannot see, this might appear to be a whirlwind.

Anyways, heaven is likely somewhere in space. But let's not try to overcomplicate simple things. If we deny the spiritual truths of Scripture, we will continue in such speculation.

The third heaven is God's throne. Only Jesus has gone there (John 3:13) and only God has come down from there (Prov. 30:4), as theopanies.

 

[tturt]

Oh, my goodness - nothing more than -

The OP is asking about dimensions/realms -Scriptures were inserted in the post #6 to help answer their question and those areas in bold show the differences according to Scripture.

 

[Soulgazer]

If we go none biblical: And <he> said to him: "How many are the aeons of the immortals, starting from the infinities?"
The perfect Savior said: "Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear. The first aeon is that of Son of Man, who is called 'First Begetter', who is called 'Savior', who has appeared. The second aeon (is) that of Man, who is called 'Adam, Eye of Light'. That which embraces these is the aeon over which there is no kingdom, (the aeon) of the Eternal Infinite God, the Self-begotten aeon of the aeons that are in it, (the aeon) of the immortals, whom I described earlier, (the aeon) above the Seventh, that appeared from Sophia, which is the first aeon.

 

[granpa]

that would be from The Sophia of Jesus Christ
The Sophia of Jesus Christ -- The Nag Hammadi Library

 

[Soulgazer]

Yes, that was from the "Sophia". Forgetfulness is one of those wonderful byproducts of age.

 

[Photonfanatic]

Anyways, heaven is likely somewhere in space. But let's not try to overcomplicate simple things. If we deny the spiritual truths of Scripture, we will continue in such speculation.

God abides in heaven, this we are told. So if heaven is somewhere in space, inside our universe, then it is possible (one day) that man could just show up there. Just because man hasn't figured out how to travel the universe, doesn't mean he never will. So if he can just show up there, still alive, what then? Would he find god there? Or would he be told to get lost?

 

[Crosssword]

The First Heaven
Shamayim or Shamain
The 1st heaven, Shamayim borders the Earth and is ruled by Archangel Gabriel.
This is the lowest of the heavens. It borders our world and is thought to be the dwelling place of Adam and Eve. This heaven being the first and closest to Earth acts as a shading agent for the Earth.
This heaven has clouds, wind and upper waters. It is the home to two hundred astronomer angels who keep watch over the stars.
To complete the visual picture of this heaven one would see legions of guardian angels of snow, ice and dew living in this vicinity.
In the Apocalypse of St. Paul this region is called the "promised land." It is described as , "Now every tree bore twelve harvests each year, and they had various and diverse fruits, and I saw the fashion of that place and all the work of God, and I saw there palm-trees of twenty cubits and others of ten cubits, and the land was seven times brighter than silver".
The First Earth
The inhabitants of this world are the descendants of Adam. It was said to be dull and cheerless but little is known about it.

The Second Heaven
Raquia or Raqia
The 2nd heaven Raquia is ruled by the Archangels Raphael and Zachariel, and, according to Enoch, it is within this heaven that the fallen angels are imprisoned waiting final judgment in complete darkness. This was at one time suppose to be the dwelling place of John the Baptist.
The Second Earth
The people of this world, also descendants of Adam, were hunters and cultivators. The were cursed with almost constant sadness. When not sad they were at war. It was also believed that visitors here came in with a memory and left with no recall of prior events.

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The Third Heaven
Sagun or Shehaquim
The 3rd heaven is unique for many reasons. According to Enoch, hell lies within the northern boundaries of the third heaven. Sagun (or Shehaqim) is ruled over by Archangel Anahel and three subordinate saraim: Jagniel, Rabacyel, and Dalquiel, and is the residence for Archangel Azrael, the Islamic Angel of death.
The northern region of this heaven has a river of flame that flows through the land of cold and ice, here the wicked are punished by the angels.
The southern lands are a bountiful paradise, thought to be the Garden of Eden, where the souls of the righteous will come after death. Two rivers, the river of milk and honey and the river of wine and oil flow here. This heaven if where the "Tree of Life can be found. The beautiful celestial garden is where all perfect souls go after death and is guarded by 300 angels of light. It was also recorded that the entrance to this heaven is a gate of gold.
The Third Earth
Although this world was one of shadows it also had woods, jungles, forests and orchards. The inhabitants lived off the fruit of the trees.

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The Fourth Heaven
Machanon or Machen
The 4th heaven Machanon it is ruled by Archangel Michael, "Is the site of the heavenly Jerusalem, the holy Temple and its Altar" (Godwin, p. 122). It is here that, according to Enoch, that the Garden of Eden is actually housed, not in the third heaven.
It is said to house the city of Christ and is the native seat of the angels.
St. Paul's Apocalypse describes it as " It was all gold, and 12 walls encircled I and there were 12 walls inside. There were 12 gates of great beauty in the circuit of the city and 4 rivers encircled it. There was a river of honey and a river of milk and a river of wine and a river of oil. "
The Forth Earth
This world has two suns and is very dry. The cities here were rich and wondrous, but the dwellers were constantly looking for a source of underground water. It was said that these people had fair features and were full of spiritual faith.

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The Fifth Heaven
Mathey or Machon
The 5th heaven Mathey is the seat/home of God, Aaron, and the Avenging Angels.
The beautiful southern region is where God can be found while the northern boundaries are said to be ruled by Metatron's twin brother Archangel Sandalphon or Samael (Camael, Chamuel). This region was like a great void of fire and smoke, which had no firm ground above or below.
A terrible desolate place where it is said the fallen Grigori (watchers) angels who sinned and cohabited with woman were imprisoned; hmm !!!

"Well personally I find this to be very unlikely so, as we, mankind, have been blessed with His greatest gift - Free Will - I would have expected at least the Angels to have been blessed with the same gift also. I believe that if an angel chooses to "fall" down to mankind to experience life and follow the paths of re-incarnation there is nothing wrong in that, let's not forget that we are angels too which have forgotten how to fly."
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In the southern regions, on the other hand, reside the ministering angels who endlessly change the praises of the Lord.
The Fifth Earth
The people here live off the land and seem to be a bit simple minded. There world has a red sun and is very dry. The people have two holes in theirs heads instead of noses making it easier for them to breath the dry thin air.

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The Sixth Heaven
Zebul
The 6th heaven Zebul is ruled by Archangel Zachiel (Sachiel) and his subordinate princes Zebul (during the day) and Sabath (during the night)
This stormy, snow ridden dwelling is home to the seven phoenixes and the seven Cherubim who sing the praises of God. A multitude of other angelic beings also reside here.
It is like the angels University of knowledge who study an array of subjects including astronomy, ecology, the seasons, and mankind.
The Sixth Earth
Here the seasons are very long. These inhabitants can travel from earth to earth and are credited with being able to speak all languages. This earth is said to be the place where Hell can be found, all seven layers of it one on top of another. The topmost layer being Sheol followed by, perdition, the gates of death, the gates of the shadow of death, silence, the bilge and the lowest pit.

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The Seventh Heaven
Araboth
The 7th heaven is the holiest of the holy heavens. Araboth is ruled by Archangel Cassiel and is home to God and his Divine Throne it is also the abode of human souls waiting to be born.
It is also home to the highest orders of angels - the Seraphim, Cherubim, and Thrones.
It is in the 7th Heaven that Isaiah has a glimpse of God and the Christ and "hears the Most high dictating the program on his (Christs) earthly manifestation and return."
The Seventh Earth
This world's form is very much like that of Earth's, having hills, mountains, valleys and flatlands. Here lies 365 different types of bizarre creatures. These creatures range from having two heads, to having multiple bodies, but are considered to be righteous. They are considered quite superior and live off the aquatic life found there. They have the unique ability to prolong life or bring the dead back to life.

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More References​

In Enoch 2,8, the Garden of Eden and the Tree of Life are both found in the 3rd Heaven.
The Zohar mentions 390 Heavens and 70,000 worlds.

 

[Photonfanatic]

Hate to say it but seeing as how so many books were actually "cut out" of the bible way back when, much of what is talked about here in the unorthodox theology will be "non-biblical". Even if to begin with, once upon a time, it was biblical.