How many of you creationists...

[Timothew]

The big problem I have is with the snotty attitude of the OP, he assumes that we are all uneducated idiots if we disagree with him.

I may be an idiot, but it shouldn't be assumed until I prove it.

The big problem I have is with the snotty attitude of the OP.
(in case this was missed)

 

[Hespera]

I was just wunderin how it'd feel to have the question reversed, thats all.

Can't science be questioned about moths? OK, now I know. I was polite.

Dude, I said do you believe evolution is a fact...not is it a fact or a theory.

Its legit to reverse a question. Tho in general, the people who understand something are maybe a bit less to be questioned on their sources than those who dont, and are loaded with misinformation.

Regarding moth questions, actually i see your statement was this..

.The prof didn't like it when I stood up in class and said, "But Doc! There are still white Peppered Moths in England."

so you didnt actually stand up, but regardless, the quote SOUNDS like straight from a chick tract, and i think anyone would be annoyed by it as it sounds deliberately disruptive

A person paying attention anyway, should understand that a higher incidence of melanistic moths in a certain area would in no way mean the white ones would cease to exist throughout england.

"Science" can be questioned on anything of course. But tahts a different matter.

Out west here, a "dude' is a city slicker, male.

i believe evolution is real as rain. Does that answer?

 

[Timothew]

Its legit to reverse a question. Tho in general, the people who understand something are maybe a bit less to be questioned on their sources than those who dont, and are loaded with misinformation.

Regarding moth questions, actually i see your statement was this..



so you didnt actually stand up, but regardless, the quote SOUNDS like straight from a chick tract, and i think anyone would be annoyed by it as it sounds deliberately disruptive

A person paying attention anyway, should understand that a higher incidence of melanistic moths in a certain area would in no way mean the white ones would cease to exist throughout england.

"Science" can be questioned on anything of course. But tahts a different matter.

Out west here, a "dude' is a city slicker, male.

i believe evolution is real as rain. Does that answer?

Good for you.

The moth thing was presented as indicating a method of species development through natural selection. Since there were black and white moths before, and black and white moths after, and black and white moths are the same species, and no new species of moths developed as a result of the industrial revolution, I felt the question had to be raised. Not because I'm a rabid christian, but because a have a scientific scepticism. The question was raised because I'm a sceptic, not because I'm a christian. Does science fly out the window just because the topic is evolution?

 

[Jro]

Good for you.

The moth thing was presented as indicating a method of species development through natural selection. Since there were black and white moths before, and black and white moths after, and black and white moths are the same species, and no new species of moths developed as a result of the industrial revolution, I felt the question had to be raised. Not because I'm a rabid christian, but because a have a scientific scepticism. The question was raised because I'm a sceptic, not because I'm a christian. Does science fly out the window just because the topic is evolution?

Kettlewell's experiments did demonstrate evolution through natural selection. The phenotypic frequency of a population was altered by environmental pressures that selected against deleterious phenotypic traits and promoted beneficial ones. Evolution does not predict that the origin of a new trait will completely take over or eliminate a more primitive trait, nor does it predict that the success of a new trait necessarily leads to a new species.

For examples of insect speciation you can look at the humble mosquito. One species in England has been introduced to subway tunnels, made extensive adaptations to its new home and is no longer able to reproduce with surface dwelling mosquitoes.

 

[Timothew]

Can you prevent all of the mosquitoes from reproducing?

 

[Jro]

Can you prevent all of the mosquitoes from reproducing?

I don't understand how that relates to the topic at hand. If you'd be willing to lay out your thoughts a bit more extensively, I'd appreciate it.

I've heard of some efforts to exterminate certain species of mosquito, but as there are 3500 different species in the world, exterminating them all might be a task.

 

[Timothew]

I was just joking, sorry.

God loves mosquitoes, that's why he made so many of them.

 

[Jro]

I was just joking, sorry.

God loves mosquitoes, that's why he made so many of them.

Ha, no worries. I've heard of a few scientists who want to try to eliminate varieties that carry malaria and related human diseases. I can't say I know many people who would be opposed to that.

 

[Hespera]

Good for you.

The moth thing was presented as indicating a method of species development through natural selection. Since there were black and white moths before, and black and white moths after, and black and white moths are the same species, and no new species of moths developed as a result of the industrial revolution, I felt the question had to be raised. Not because I'm a rabid christian, but because a have a scientific scepticism. The question was raised because I'm a sceptic, not because I'm a christian. Does science fly out the window just because the topic is evolution?

I guess you didnt much understand what was being presented.

The thing with the moths is that it is an easy example of how natural selection takes place.

Of course no new species developed! That is a long term thing, and different colour phases are typical of many animals of the same species.

The arctic fox in the aleutians never turns white in winter, for example.

A long period of genetic isolation is required for a different species to develop; if the ecample the aleutian foxes might eventually develope into a different species; but there would be lots of white foxes left on the mainland! So still black and white moths is really irrelevant.

The question if it was a question (it was not phrased as one) mostly showed you were several steps behind and had not grasped some of the most elementary basics of what evolution is about.

Does science fly out the window just because the topic is evolution?

What an odd question.

 

[Timothew]

Ha, no worries. I've heard of a few scientists who want to try to eliminate varieties that carry malaria and related human diseases. I can't say I know many people who would be opposed to that.

I get nervous when the ecosystems are tampered with, even for a very good reason.

 

[Hespera]

I get nervous when the ecosystems are tampered with, even for a very good reason.

We agree on this one!

 

[Timothew]

I guess you didnt much understand what was being presented.

The thing with the moths is that it is an easy example of how natural selection takes place.

Of course no new species developed! That is a long term thing, and different colour phases are typical of many animals of the same species.

The arctic fox in the aleutians never turns white in winter, for example.

A long period of genetic isolation is required for a different species to develop; if the ecample the aleutian foxes might eventually develope into a different species; but there would be lots of white foxes left on the mainland! So still black and white moths is really irrelevant.

The question if it was a question (it was not phrased as one) mostly showed you were several steps behind and had not grasped some of the most elementary basics of what evolution is about.

Person


What an odd question.

meh, I got a B.

 

[Hespera]

meh, I got a B.

Then by now you surely know why your challenge to the professor was kind of silly, and that if he "didnt like it' its not because it was a question hard to answer, but one you should have answered for yourself.

Preferably before class.

 

[Timothew]

IDK, the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. I was on good terms with the professor, one of his "front row" students. Dr. Charles Long was his name.

 

[Jro]

I get nervous when the ecosystems are tampered with, even for a very good reason.

Meh, they're pretty much trashed anyway. Malaria is a particularly nasty bug, we've already eradicated it from the US and Europe, might as well do it in the tropics as well.

 

[Jro]

I guess you didnt much understand what was being presented.

The thing with the moths is that it is an easy example of how natural selection takes place.

Of course no new species developed! That is a long term thing, and different colour phases are typical of many animals of the same species.

The arctic fox in the aleutians never turns white in winter, for example.

A long period of genetic isolation is required for a different species to develop; if the ecample the aleutian foxes might eventually develope into a different species; but there would be lots of white foxes left on the mainland! So still black and white moths is really irrelevant.

The question if it was a question (it was not phrased as one) mostly showed you were several steps behind and had not grasped some of the most elementary basics of what evolution is about.

Hespera, do you know if there are any figures for how many generations it takes for an organism to speciate (I realize that's an absurdly broad question...)? I was under the impression that given the right conditions it could happen fairly quickly.

 

[Hespera]

IDK, the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. I was on good terms with the professor, one of his "front row" students. Dr. Charles Long was his name.

Ok so now, next Q?

 

[Hespera]

Hespera, do you know if there are any figures for how many generations it takes for an organism to speciate (I realize that's an absurdly broad question...)? I was under the impression that given the right conditions it could happen fairly quickly.

Im not very qualified to offer much on that other than a couple of thoughts.

Birds have very specialized courtship, both song and dance, and the least variation can prevent bteeding. If you have separated populations they might in a few generations cease to interbreed.

Another contributor would be some open habitat to exploit, darwins finches being a famous example.

We artificially "speciated" a lot of domestic plants and animals into very distinct types, in a pretty short time.

 

[Jro]

Im not very qualified to offer much on that other than a couple of thoughts.

Birds have very specialized courtship, both song and dance, and the least variation can prevent bteeding. If you have separated populations they might in a few generations cease to interbreed.

Another contributor would be some open habitat to exploit, darwins finches being a famous example.

We artificially "speciated" a lot of domestic plants and animals into very distinct types, in a pretty short time.

Walnut flies are another pretty good example of prezygotic barriers causing speciation. Just curious if I was off in my thinking.

 

[Hespera]

Walnut flies are another pretty good example of prezygotic barriers causing speciation. Just curious if I was off in my thinking.

you probably know more about it than i do.