How many of you creationists...

[AV1611VET]

Anyone who reads God's instructions to Noah closely enough will see that can't be the case... God told Noah to take along seven of every clean animal... "clean" here being in reference to the Jewish dietary laws, which were outlined much later... chronologically speaking... in Biblical history.

That means that in order for God's instructions to make any sense, Noah would've had to have been familiar with the dietary laws... meaning the same animals mentioned by name when those laws were enumerated must've existed in the time of Noah... not some ancestral "kind."

Their "kinds" boarded:

19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

 

[OldStyleBlues]

No --- I'm making the point that only their "kinds" boarded the Ark.

If we were there as an observer, I wonder how many animals we would even recognize.

For instance, all of the "beasts of the field" could have been represented by the dragon or the unicorn.

Of course, I'm not an expert on that --- but it makes my point that only their "kinds" (incipient species?) had to actually get aboard.

Thats right! Because the Bible was written in such ambiguities the "Beasts" "Bohemoths' "Creatures that creepeth" could be anything. It's now all clear, Dragons, Unicorns, Heck these vauge references might even refer to Leprechauns, elf's and Garden Gnomes!

 

[LightHorseman]

Thats right! Because the Bible was written in such ambiguities the "Beasts" "Bohemoths' "Creatures that creepeth" could be anything. It's now all clear, Dragons, Unicorns, Heck these vauge references might even refer to Leprechauns, elf's and Garden Gnomes!

Don't be ridiculous. The plural of "elf" is "elves".

 

[OldStyleBlues]

Don't be ridiculous. The plural of "elf" is "elves".

Ahhh , My bad, Thanks!

 

[AV1611VET]

Because the Bible was written in such ambiguities the "Beasts" "Bohemoths' "Creatures that creepeth" could be anything.

Either that, or the Bible is written in such a way that even a child can understand It, with Its science encoded in It in seed form --- that is, using very primitive terminology.

Again --- the Bible was not meant to be a science book.

Let me give you an example of how this works:

Suppose I wanted to write a book that is meant to be read by everyone throughout all ages of time.

In other words, I can write a book, then have it sent back in time to appear to everyone throughout the years.

Let's say that in this book, I want to explain that Tom went from Point A to Point B in an automobile.

If I say in my book that Tom "drove to Point B in a car", then it is hardly going to be understood by everyone.

But if I say in my book that Tom "went to Point B via coach", then more "primitive" people will understand, but still not everyone.

Finally, if I say in my book that Tom "went to Point B via chariot", then I should be able to reach the widest audience.

 

[AV1611VET]

Don't be ridiculous. The plural of "elf" is "elves".

Ahhh , My bad, Thanks!

If I'm wasting my time here, feel free to let me know.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Anyone who reads God's instructions to Noah closely enough will see that can't be the case... God told Noah to take along seven of every clean animal... "clean" here being in reference to the Jewish dietary laws, which were outlined much later... chronologically speaking... in Biblical history.

That means that in order for God's instructions to make any sense, Noah would've had to have been familiar with the dietary laws... meaning the same animals mentioned by name when those laws were enumerated must've existed in the time of Noah... not some ancestral "kind."

Or, the set of 'unclean' animals changed between Noah's time and the time of Leviticus and Deuteronomy. That is, new species deemed unclean in the time of the latter would also be deemed unclean in Noah's time, but they hadn't evolved yet (e.g., the great, little, and normal owls are all deemed unclean by Leviticus and Deuteronomy, but only their common ancestor existed during the time of Noah).
Likewise, unclean animals in Noah's time might have gone extinct by the time lists were tabulated (unicorns, anyone?).

Presumably, there is some criteria by which 'cleanliness' is determined.

 

[Cabal]

Or, the set of 'unclean' animals changed between Noah's time and the time of Leviticus and Deuteronomy. That is, new species deemed unclean in the time of the latter would also be deemed unclean in Noah's time, but they hadn't evolved yet (e.g., the great, little, and normal owls are all deemed unclean by Leviticus and Deuteronomy, but only their common ancestor existed during the time of Noah).
Likewise, unclean animals in Noah's time might have gone extinct by the time lists were tabulated (unicorns, anyone?).

Presumably, there is some criteria by which 'cleanliness' is determined.

I'm curious as to how the unclean organisms that couldn't survive forty days of immersion in water survived....

 

[The Lady Kate]

Their "kinds" boarded:

Has that term been defined, or is it still meaningless?

 

[The Lady Kate]

Either that, or the Bible is written in such a way that even a child can understand It, with Its science encoded in It in seed form --- that is, using very primitive terminology.

Or... the Bible used primative terminology because it was primative.

Again --- the Bible was not meant to be a science book.

Let me give you an example of how this works:

Suppose I wanted to write a book that is meant to be read by everyone throughout all ages of time.

Have you taken into account that you don't think "all ages of time" is going to last more than a generation or two?

In other words, I can write a book, then have it sent back in time to appear to everyone throughout the years.

Let's say that in this book, I want to explain that Tom went from Point A to Point B in an automobile.

If I say in my book that Tom "drove to Point B in a car", then it is hardly going to be understood by everyone.

Granted... but even Jesus said that his message was never meant to be understood by everyone... that's why he spoke in parables.

But if I say in my book that Tom "went to Point B via coach", then more "primitive" people will understand, but still not everyone.

Finally, if I say in my book that Tom "went to Point B via chariot", then I should be able to reach the widest audience.

Accomplishing that which Jesus himself went through great lengths not to do.

 

[AV1611VET]

Has that term been defined, or is it still meaningless?

I'd say, so far, it is "meaningless" to taxonomists.

Or to use the word the Bible uses: "confounding".

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise;

 

[The Lady Kate]

I'd say, so far, it is "meaningless" to taxonomists.

Or to use the word the Bible uses: "confounding".

Ah... meaningless.

 

[AV1611VET]

Granted... but even Jesus said that his message was never meant to be understood by everyone... that's why he spoke in parables.

So you're saying they're like this?

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

 

[The Lady Kate]

So you're saying they're like this?

No, I'm saying that for you to be right, Jesus has to have lied... and I'm not going that route for you.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

I'd say, so far, it is "meaningless" to taxonomists.

Or to use the word the Bible uses: "confounding".

Well, unless you creationists know what it means, it's meaningless to you too, isn't it?

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, unless you creationists know what it means, it's meaningless to you too, isn't it?

It sure is --- taxonomically [if that's a word].

But certainly not as far as explaining the Flood to little children goes.

We don't demand all that fancy techno-speak --- you guys do.

 

[OldStyleBlues]

I wonder if Noah had dramamine for everyone on the boat or at least sea sickness bags.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I'm curious as to how the unclean organisms that couldn't survive forty days of immersion in water survived....

Vegetable rafts . But then, Noah took unclean animals with him as well:

"Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah." -Genesis 7:8-9

 

[loveiseverywhere]

I disagree ---

Are you forgetting that the men who wrote the Bible still had free will?

 

[AV1611VET]

Are you forgetting that the men who wrote the Bible still had free will?

No, I'm not.

I believe God chose just the right man for the job --- even before the foundation of the world.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.