How many of you creationists...

[Cabal]

The Psalms, mainly written by King David, came much later than Genesis, and to say that they believed in a geocentric, flat earth because of the Scriptures then is using the Bible as a scapegoat.

Who said anything about Genesis? The point about flat-Earth-ism is that even until recently, people have used those Scriptures of David to justify it, DESPITE it being known by science for centuries that the earth is round.

Truth of the matter is --- it was scientists who taught that stuff.

And? It was corrected quickly? And people didn't get with the program? Not science's fault they didn't keep up.

 

[OldStyleBlues]

Sure it was Scientists. The same scientists who believed bloodletting was a sure fire way to rid ones body of disease which were evil spirits. The same scientists who believed that the best way to detect a witch was to chain her with rocks and toss her in the drink. If she floats, Witch!!
Since flat-earthism is the paradigm of" Bible-Science", it should be discussed first. It’s difficult to see how the creationists, some of whom claim to discern the laws of thermodynamics in the Bible, can fail to see its flat-earth implications. Despite their internecine warfare, Creationists and flat earthers are in broad agreement on a number of issues. They agree on the usefulness of the Bible as a scientific text, the weakness of mere theories, the duplicity of conventional scientists, and the impossibility of reconciling conventional science with the Bible. The creation and flat-earth movements have similar foundations and histories, and both have used similar strategies to propagate their beliefs. Indeed, both believe they are battling the same behind-the-scenes opponent. So why dont ya'll kiss and make up.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sure it was Scientists. The same scientists who believed bloodletting was a sure fire way to rid ones body of disease which were evil spirits. The same scientists who believed that the best way to detect a witch was to chain her with rocks and toss her in the drink. If she floats, Witch!!
Since flat-earthism is the paradigm of" Bible-Science", it should be discussed first. It’s difficult to see how the creationists, some of whom claim to discern the laws of thermodynamics in the Bible, can fail to see its flat-earth implications. Despite their internecine warfare, Creationists and flat earthers are in broad agreement on a number of issues. They agree on the usefulness of the Bible as a scientific text, the weakness of mere theories, the duplicity of conventional scientists, and the impossibility of reconciling conventional science with the Bible. The creation and flat-earth movements have similar foundations and histories, and both have used similar strategies to propagate their beliefs. Indeed, both believe they are battling the same behind-the-scenes opponent. So why dont ya'll kiss and make up.

Here's the thing --- as science progresses, I believe we should interpret the Scriptures accordingly, with one exception: science doesn't contradict Them --- then science has to take a back seat.

The reason I believe this, is because I believe God embedded science into the Scriptures in seed form --- to be revealed as He determines.

This is why I think Job speaks of the Internet and Isaiah speaks of the universe expanding.

But to try and use the Bible as a science book is like trying to use Bill Gate's diary as a computer manual.

 

[AV1611VET]

Who said anything about Genesis? The point about flat-Earth-ism is that even until recently, people have used those Scriptures of David to justify it, DESPITE it being known by science for centuries that the earth is round.

That's not my problem though, is it? We know better, don't we?

Obviously, those Scriptures about the earth being "immoveable" are talking about something else, other than revolving around the sun?

 

[OldStyleBlues]

But think about how strong your numbers would be if you creationists united and joined forces with the Flat-Earthers! You'd all be one unified lean mean, bible waving, science fighting machine. Maybe call the organization FECS? the "Flat Earth creationist Society" Sorta has a nice ring to it.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Yes and no --- science runs nature, and nature is hostile [but obedient] to God's Creation.

How exactly does science "run" nature? Science only helps describe nature... far more effectively than hostile but obedient."

Left unchecked, raw science will not allow God to perform any of His will --- and, in fact --- will run this universe into a state known as maximum entropy.

Are you honestly suggesting that "science" has power over God?

In order for God to perform His will, He must make science stand aside; whether it's flooding the earth, walking on water, or resurrecting from the dead, if science had its way, God would not be able to perform these feats.

So, science keeps God in check, you want to keep science in check... who keeps you in check?

Thus God overrides science with miracles.

Does He now? This word, science... I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[MoonLancer]

But think about how strong your numbers would be if you creationists united and joined forces with the Flat-Earthers! You'd all be one unified lean mean, bible waving, science fighting machine. Maybe call the organization FECS? the "Flat Earth creationist Society" Sorta has a nice ring to it.

i think we need an extra "e" after the "c" but i cant think of anything.

*edit*

maybe Flat Earth Creationist Ex-Nihilo Society

F.E.C.E.S

 

[The Lady Kate]

I personify science when I make my points, so as to save time and typing.

At the cost of clarity.

It's easier to understand it better when it's personified.

It doesn't seem to be working out that way... by personifying it, you've made it an active intelligent force independent of the people who use it.

 

[MoonLancer]

This is why I think Job speaks of the Internet and Isaiah speaks of the universe expanding.

sounds more like revisionist history. other words bs.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Some time ago, I started a thread called something like: Sans Bible, Flat Earth?, to make the point that even without the Bible, man would have thought the earth was flat.

In other words, it was scientists who taught a flat earth --- not the Bible.

Actually, it was none of the above... my brother set me straight on that particular myth.

All anyone has to do is look out at the sea to see a round Earth... the boats sail out over the horizon, disappear over the "edge," and then return, none the worse for wear.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any scientist in history who ever taught that the Earth was flat... and the church, taking their cues from scientists, would've known better than to challenge them on that one.

I'll see if I can dig it up.

ETA: I found this --- 1 --- but it's not what I'm looking for --- I'll keep looking.

ETA2: I think this is the one: 1.

Ugh... word of advice: should've kept both threads buried... if not to save yourself, then to save the faith from ewmbarassment.

 

[LightSeaker]

Here's the thing --- as science progresses, I believe we should interpret the Scriptures accordingly, with one exception: science doesn't contradict Them --- then science has to take a back seat.

As for myself, When God's own Creation contradicts scriptures, I'll take what God is showing us through His Creation over scripture every time.

The reason I believe this, is because I believe God embedded science into the Scriptures in seed form --- to be revealed as He determines.

Wrong. The Bible is about man's relationship with God. It is not a science book.

 

[The Lady Kate]

I asked basically the same question again in another poll, and got something like a 50/50 response out of about 9 responders.

(If my memory serves me right.)

Your memory is showing some serious flaws as of late... perhaps you should rely on something better?

 

[The Lady Kate]

As for myself, When God's own Creation contradicts scriptures, I'll take what God is showing us through His Creation over scripture every time.

Indeed... I'll trust my own eyes over someone else's whenever possible.

Wrong. The Bible is about man's relationship with God. It is not a science book.

And let us never forget, that it is man's relationship with God told (inspiration notwithstanding) from man's POV. Man's attempt to encapsulate the Divine into human language.

Anyone here think God is so easily confined?

 

[AV1611VET]

But think about how strong your numbers would be if you creationists united and joined forces with the Flat-Earthers! You'd all be one unified lean mean, bible waving, science fighting machine. Maybe call the organization FECS? the "Flat Earth creationist Society" Sorta has a nice ring to it.

I don't fight science, and as an Independent Baptist, I would not officially join with others.

 

[OldStyleBlues]

I don't fight science, and as an Independent Baptist, I would not officially join with others.

Fair enough. You know I'm still weirded out about Cain marrying his sister. I wonder if they were from Alabama.

 

[AV1611VET]

How exactly does science "run" nature?

For starters, the universe runs on four forces of nature:

1. Gravity
2. Electronagnetism
3. Strong Nuclear Force
4. Weak Nuclear Force

All set in motion by God in Genesis 1.

Science only helps describe nature... far more effectively than hostile but obedient."

Like I said, I personify science and nature in order to explain it more easily.

Are you honestly suggesting that "science" has power over God?

No --- I said ---

Left unchecked, raw science will not allow God to perform any of His will...

This means that if God were to step back and let the universe take its course (Deism?), it would eventually run down.

But God isn't going to just step back and let the universe run its course --- He has one doosey of an intervention plan, starting with the Rapture (suspending or overpowering Gravity), and ending with the suspension of the Strong Nuclear Force and rearrangement of the particles into a New Heaven and a New Earth.

So, science keeps God in check, you want to keep science in check... who keeps you in check?

Wrong scenario.

Does He now? This word, science... I do not think it means what you think it means.

Then use the word "nature" for clarity.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

But God isn't going to just step back and let the universe run its course --- He has one doosey of an intervention plan, starting with the Rapture (suspending or overpowering Gravity), and ending with the suspension of the Strong Nuclear Force and rearrangement of the particles into a New Heaven and a New Earth.

What makes you think gravity and the Strong Nuclear force are going to be suspended?
EDIT: thinking about it, doesn't the Rapture involve people rising up into Heaven as if suspended on invisible wire?

 

[loveiseverywhere]

On one side there is Science which deals with the natural world, reason and facts. On the other side there is the belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolicly eat his flesh and telepathicaly accept him as your master, so that he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in all of humanity , because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical fruit tree. I'll stick with science.

You're oversimplifying things. The Bible is obviously a metaphor and cannot be interpreted literally.

The Bible, as far as I'm concerned, has to be taken as a whole, read in context of the times it was written and interpreted symbolically.

 

[AV1611VET]

And let us never forget, that it is man's relationship with God told (inspiration notwithstanding) from man's POV. Man's attempt to encapsulate the Divine into human language.

I disagree ---

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

 

[AV1611VET]

Fair enough. You know I'm still weirded out about Cain marrying his sister. I wonder if they were from Alabama.

Your jokes aside --- they may very well have been --- (but I doubt it).

I've already shown (from Wikipedia) why I think Noah lived in [what is now] New Jersey.

You see --- you guys have such a narrow view of the Scriptures, and such a high view of science, that you can't think outside of Mesopotamia --- and that's why I say science is so myopic.