LDS How many negative charges has been made about JS character in LDS History? Just, curious.

[Jamesone5]

The quote was taken out of context anyway. After that he is quoted as saying he said:

"That is what I expect I shall do, though never, in the days of my life, have I hurt a man with the palm of my hand. I never have hurt any person any other way except with this unruly member, my tongue. Notwithstanding this, if I caught a man stealing on my premises I should be very apt to send him straight home, and that is what I wish every man to do, to put a stop to that abominable practice in the midst of this people."

You really make me laugh with the supposedly peaceable re-quote of Brigham Young----the original quote is much harsher.

If you want to know what to do with a thief that you may find stealing, I say kill him on the spot, and never suffer him to commit another iniquity.

Brigham Young
Brigham Young (1854). “Journal of Discourses”, p.108


Truth with Mormons, seem to be a sketchy thing. I just noted in a brief study there are probably 4 or 5 accounts of Joseph's Smith death just from publication of their Church and other souces. 11 men, 4 men. 1 man,no men that he was supposedly protecting and---and now we have 4 times one was shot per the poster above. When you go back through and see all the changes that have been made--it's like no one can agree with the truth of what happened.

I have heard the excuse of the "distancing" of Mormon Church away from mainly Brigham Young's Journal of Discourses, before. They have had many problems with it. Blaming the scribes for what they claim might be altered words. Official Church resources until the problems got too big.

Same with Mc Conkie's book Mormon Doctrine which was popular with Mormons for awhile until people started to read things, like his ridiculous claim that we all have to meet Joseph Smith in heaven and get his approval before we can enter Heaven.

The "shifting sands of truth" in Mormonism, which has only been around some 190 years--- is astounding.

 

[mmksparbud]

The quote was taken out of context anyway. After that he is quoted as saying:

"That is what I expect I shall do, though never, in the days of my life, have I hurt a man with the palm of my hand. I never have hurt any person any other way except with this unruly member, my tongue. Notwithstanding this, if I caught a man stealing on my premises I should be very apt to send him straight home, and that is what I wish every man to do, to put a stop to that abominable practice in the midst of this people."

Reference. And if he catches one of his many wives with another man? Is that out of context also?

 

[He is the way]

You really make me laugh with the supposedly peaceable re-quote of Brigham Young----the original quote is much harsher.

If you want to know what to do with a thief that you may find stealing, I say kill him on the spot, and never suffer him to commit another iniquity.

Brigham Young
Brigham Young (1854). “Journal of Discourses”, p.108


Truth with Mormons, seem to be a sketchy thing. I just noted in a brief study there are probably 4 or 5 accounts of Joseph's Smith death just from publication of their Church and other souces. 11 men, 4 men. 1 man,no men that he was supposedly protecting and---and now we have 4 times one was shot per the poster above. When you go back through and see all the changes that have been made--it's like no one can agree with the truth of what happened.

I have heard the "distancing" of Mormon Church away from mainly Brigham Young's Journal of Discourses before. They have had many problems with it. Blaming the scribes for what they claim might be altered words.

Same with Mc Conkie's book Mormon Doctrine which was popular with Mormons for awhile until people started to read things, like his ridiculous claim that we all have to meet Joseph Smith in heaven and get his approval before we can enter Heaven.

The "shifting sands of truth" in Mormonism, which has only been around some 190 years--- is astounding.

If you don't believe me you can look it up for yourself like I did.

 

[Jamesone5]

If you don't believe me you can look it up for yourself like I did.

I did--- there is the proof.
If you want to know what to do with a thief that you may find stealing, I say kill him on the spot, and never suffer him to commit another iniquity.

Brigham Young
Brigham Young (1854). “Journal of Discourses”, p.108

Proof with a resource, of course.


This goes in line what I personally read myself.


"

 

[BigDaddy4]

I suspect you did not read my posts. Jesus was not being killed at the time. Joseph Smith's brother Hyrum was being killed and the others were in danger of being killed. John Taylor was shot 4 times and Willard Richards was also there. It was a very different situation.

I suspect you do not comprehend the point. When a mob comes, Jesus never taught to retaliate, did he? Did he not admonish Peter for using violence? So, why didn't your "prophet" learn from your god not to retaliate and leave it up to the Lord? Oh wait, I know. The mormon god is not the God of Christianity and JS was not a prophet.

 

[mmksparbud]

If you don't believe me you can look it up for yourself like I did.

I believe you know, that it was not the act of a true Godly man. We've had missionaries killed by locals all over the world---they knew they were coming for them, they could have protected themselves, they choose to be like Stephen. They left it in the hands of God, even when it meant their death. These were families, men with their wives and children. Much to protect. That is true Godliness. And I have a great deal of respect for anyone who dies for their faith, whatever faith that is, without fighting back and submitting to the will of God. In so doing, several have also had miraculous displays of God protecting them.

 

[He is the way]

I did--- there is the proof.
If you want to know what to do with a thief that you may find stealing, I say kill him on the spot, and never suffer him to commit another iniquity.

Brigham Young
Brigham Young (1854). “Journal of Discourses”, p.108

Proof with a resource, of course.


This goes in line what I personally read myself.


"

You only read/posted part of the passage. I posted the rest of it:

"That is what I expect I shall do, though never, in the days of my life, have I hurt a man with the palm of my hand. I never have hurt any person any other way except with this unruly member, my tongue. Notwithstanding this, if I caught a man stealing on my premises I should be very apt to send him straight home, and that is what I wish every man to do, to put a stop to that abominable practice in the midst of this people."

 

[He is the way]

I suspect you do not comprehend the point. When a mob comes, Jesus never taught to retaliate, did he? Did he not admonish Peter for using violence? So, why didn't your "prophet" learn from your god not to retaliate and leave it up to the Lord? Oh wait, I know. The mormon god is not the God of Christianity and JS was not a prophet.

And if you had a daughter and seen her being kidnapped or worse you would do nothing to protect her? Don't you believe in using force to protect others?

 

[Jamesone5]

You only read/posted part of the passage. I posted the rest of it:

"That is what I expect I shall do, though never, in the days of my life, have I hurt a man with the palm of my hand. I never have hurt any person any other way except with this unruly member, my tongue. Notwithstanding this, if I caught a man stealing on my premises I should be very apt to send him straight home, and that is what I wish every man to do, to put a stop to that abominable practice in the midst of this people."

Blah, Blah ,Blah

of course, without a reference I note, yet again.
As it is if---you are just making more stuff up.

 

[BigDaddy4]

And if you had a daughter and seen her being kidnapped or worse you would do nothing to protect her? Don't you believe in using force to protect others?

Now you are resorting to whataboutism's? It does not matter what I believe. That's just a distraction. We are talking about what Jesus taught and whether or not your supposed "prophet" followed what he taught. Is that too difficult for you to stay on topic?

 

[He is the way]

Blah, Blah ,Blah

of course, without a reference I note, yet again.
As it is if---you are just making more stuff up.

Still you can't bother to look it up for yourself?

Journal of Discourses

 

[He is the way]

Now you are resorting to whataboutism's? It does not matter what I believe. That's just a distraction. We are talking about what Jesus taught and whether or not your supposed "prophet" followed what he taught. Is that too difficult for you to stay on topic?

We are talking about Joseph Smith doing what he could to protect the others in the jail cell from being murdered. I certainly would not want your protection if you would just stand by and do nothing.

 

[Jamesone5]

Still you can't bother to look it up for yourself?

Journal of Discourses

Why would I bother look it up in the current Journal of Discourses? I looked it up many years ago in one of the original Journals---- and then, simply looked up something that mirrors the truth of what I originally read. Lots of changes have transpired since 1854.

You going to call me a liar and that the Holy Spirit I claim [not whatever spirit you suggest] is lying to me?

It seems you are careful there to actually call the Holy Spirit the wrong one or that the Spirit of God is lying to me.

Your Church, which you hold so dear, is pulling the wool over you eyes and like a bunch of blind sheep you follow what ever they say. You have follow the lead of your "I know your Church is the ONLY True One"--in your testimonies.

 

[Jamesone5]

We are talking about Joseph Smith doing what he could to protect the others in the jail cell from being murdered. I certainly would not want your protection if you would just stand by and do nothing.

So evidently his hope to endure to the End did not pan out. His god could not save him and he died a coward.

 

[He is the way]

Why would I bother look it up in the current Journal of Discourses? I looked it up many years ago in one of the original Journals---- and then, simply looked up something that mirrors the truth of what I originally read. Lots of changes have transpired since 1854.

You going to call me a liar and that the Holy Spirit I claim [not whatever spirit you suggest] is lying to me?

It seems you are careful there to actually call the Holy Spirit the wrong one or that the Spirit of God is lying to me.

Your Church, which you hold so dear, is pulling the wool over you eyes and like a bunch of blind sheep you follow what ever they say. You have follow the lead of your "I know your Church is the ONLY True One"--in your testimonies.

First the Journal of Discourses is not a church publication. Second I don't know if there has been any updates to it since it was published. I did a search and didn't find any. Third there are a lot of insinuations, half truths and outright lies out there designed to lead people away from The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. However the doctrine is true and no one has been able to prove otherwise.

 

[He is the way]

So evidently his hope to endure to the End did not pan out. His god could not save him and he died a coward.

He died defending his friends and enduring to the end.

 

[Jamesone5]

He died defending his friends and enduring to the end.

With a pistol in his hand and jumped out the window and basically committed suicide.

 

[He is the way]

With a pistol in his hand and jumped out the window and basically committed suicide.

His jumping out of the window saved the lives of John Taylor and Willard Richards.

 

[Jamesone5]

First the Journal of Discourses is not a church publication. Second I don't know if there has been any updates to it since it was published. I did a search and didn't find any. Third there are a lot of insinuations, half truths and outright lies out there designed to lead people away from The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. However the doctrine is true and no one has been able to prove otherwise.

why would NOT people be leading others away from the Mormon Church? We try to practice Christian love for those who are clearly deceived,

And you say here this Second I don't know if there has been any updates to it

Seems as if the proof of what you finally admit fell apart there.

But at least you are seaching----be prepared for what you might find. Good place to start is with the 1830 Edition of the BoM and then compare it to the present BoM. Your chruch used to provide a copy at request.

 

[Jamesone5]

His jumping out of the window saved the lives of John Taylor and Willard Richards.

And how did they save their lives?
Were they after them?

No one got killed even after Hyrum and then Joseph died.