How many Gentiles and Samaritans could have been saved if Jesus would have sent some disciples there?

[John Mullally]

You responded to the post. You ignored the argument. I can quote it for you if you’d like, and demonstrate how your response doesn’t match up.

I’m not questioning the word of God. Quote, “My way is actually consistent throughout. I can show how it fits with the OP, and the John 12 and Matthew 13 passages.” See? No questioning.

1 Timothy 2:4 says that God desires all men to be saved - case closed. God gave His only begotten son (John 3:16) for all (1 John 2:2 and 1 Timothy 2:6) - is that not enough? Do you now presume to tell Jesus how He was to spend his limited ministry time (3 years) to better prove His love for humanity?

Okay, then explain why we have at least three places in the gospels where Jesus was clearly not only not trying to save everyone, but doing just the opposite.

Like I said much earlier, in John 6, Jesus was actively working to alienate some would-be followers. That does not mean that God did not desire them to be saved - He did not want Jesus to be captive to people that wanted to make Him king because they had desire for more free food (John 6:15).

1. to refrain from noticing or recognizing:

That’s how I used it. The author determines the intent. This looks like you are doing everything you can to not address the question. Care to address the question?

You don't get to define my word usage. If a dictionary has three possible meanings for the word 'delayed' (as in this case), proper word usage depends on the meanng lining up with at least one of the possibliites - which did occur.

Scripture is final authority. Care to address 1 Timothy 2:4 or 1 Timothy 4:10.

 

[Hammster]

Of course God doesn't try to save everyone or anyone for that matter. God wants everyone to repent and be saved. It's up to us to respond to the gospel.

How do they know to repent?

 

[zoidar]

How do they know to repent?

Normally, they are presented with the gospel.

 

[Hammster]

Normally, they are presented with the gospel.

Exactly. And we have at least three places in scripture where just the opposite happened, and it was because of Christ Himself.

 

[RDKirk]

These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: “Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
— Matthew 10:5-6

So here we have Jesus deliberately telling His disciples to not go to the Gentiles nor the Samaritans. How many Gentiles and Samaritans could have been saved if Jesus would have sent some disciples there?

None were lost. God, in His mercy, tempers His judgment according to any person responds to Him as He is revealed by creation.

We find this within Jonah 4, where God was unwilling to destroy the Ninevites until they had heard witness of Him.

We find this in Luke 12, where Jesus' parable of the foolish steward tells us that with greater knowledge comes greater accountability.

We find this in John 9, where Jesus equates ignorance to innocence.

We find this in Romans 1, where Paul points out that God reveals His existence and essential virtue clearly enough in nature itself that no man has an excuse not to have acknowledged Him even in ignorance.

We find this in Acts 17, were Paul points out some Gentiles who did, in fact, see God in nature and recognized that He existed, even though they did not have the revelation to known Him.

I believe that Job's understanding of God was through creation alone.

So, no Gentiles who would have accepted the Gospel were lost, because God, in His mercy, tempers His judgment according to any person responds to Him as He is revealed by creation.

 

[zoidar]

Exactly. And we have at least three places in scripture where just the opposite happened, and it was because of Christ Himself.

It's often I don't share the gospel with someone. Does that mean I don't want to see them saved?

 

[Hammster]

None were lost. God, in His mercy, tempers His judgment according to any person responds to Him as He is revealed by creation.

We find this within Jonah 4, where God was unwilling to destroy the Ninevites until they had heard witness of Him.

We find this in Luke 12, where Jesus' parable of the foolish steward tells us that with greater knowledge comes greater accountability.

We find this in John 9, where Jesus equates ignorance to innocence.

We find this in Romans 1, where Paul points out that God reveals His existence and essential virtue clearly enough in nature itself that no man has an excuse not to have acknowledged Him even in ignorance.

We find this in Acts 17, were Paul points out some Gentiles who did, in fact, see God in nature and recognized that He existed, even though they did not have the revelation to known Him.

I believe that Job's understanding of God was through creation alone.

So, no Gentiles who would have accepted the Gospel were lost, because God, in His mercy, tempers His judgment according to any person responds to Him as He is revealed by creation.

Actually, we find none of what you put forth anywhere in those examples.

 

[Hammster]

It's often I don't share the gospel with someone. Does that mean I don't want to see them saved?

I have no idea about what you think. But we can be sure what Jesus thought in Matthew 13 and John 12.

 

[zoidar]

I have no idea about what you think. But we can be sure what Jesus thought in Matthew 13 and John 12.

I'm not sure what you think about in those chapters. But my point is that there may be other reasons to not present the gospel to someone at a certain time than not wanting them saved.

 

[Hammster]

I'm not sure what you think about in those chapters. But my point is that there may be other reasons to not present the gospel to someone at a certain time than not wanting them saved.

Like this?

“He has blinded their eyes and He hardened their heart, so that they would not see with their eyes and perceive with their heart, and be converted and I heal them.”
— John 12:40

 

[John Mullally]

.

 

[John Mullally]

Like this?

“He has blinded their eyes and He hardened their heart, so that they would not see with their eyes and perceive with their heart, and be converted and I heal them.”
— John 12:40

It was not in God's timing that the Jews in Jesus's time receive him in mass, as He had to be crucified.

​

Acts 2:22 Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men,put him to death by nailing him to the cross.​

​

Acts 4:27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. 28 They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.​

​

1 Corinthians 2:8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.​

​

But after His resurrection, we see the following stated also in John 12 portraying the future that once again demonstrates God's love for humanity.

John 12:31-32 ‘Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.​

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Exactly. And we have at least three places in scripture where just the opposite happened, and it was because of Christ Himself.

That was already explained to you multiple times but you did not like the answer...

 

[Hammster]

It was not in God's timing that the Jews in Jesus's time receive him in mass, as He had to be crucified.

​

Acts 2:22 Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men,put him to death by nailing him to the cross.​

​

Acts 4:27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. 28 They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.​

​

1 Corinthians 2:8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.​

​

But after His resurrection, we see the following stated also in John 12 portraying the future that once again demonstrates God's love for humanity.

John 12:31-32 ‘Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.​

You don’t have a cohesive theology that is consistent. You have a theology where God doesn’t want all to be saved, and one where He does. I keep bringing this up, trying to get you to reconcile this obvious flaw. Yet you deftly avoid the argument.

 

[Hammster]

That was already explained to you multiple times but you did not like the answer...

Just because someone may have attempted an explanation doesn’t mean that it’s a good one. I’m longing to interact with one that actually explains how God can on one hand, love everyone equally, and on the other hand not want to save everyone.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Just because someone may have attempted an explanation doesn’t mean that it’s a good one. I’m longing to interact with one that actually explains how God can on one hand, love everyone equally, and on the other hand not want to save everyone.

He does want to save everyone and does love everyone. BUT we were all created in His image but with free will.

 

[Hammster]

It was not in God's timing that the Jews in Jesus's time receive him in mass, as He had to be crucified.

In mass? And you balked and said I put words in your mouth when I said that in your view, Jesus was more concerned with larger numbers as opposed to caring about actual individual. This is what I meant.

And btw, Jesus didn’t need to be crucified prior to the Jews being saved. We have a whole OT to attest to that.

 

[Hammster]

He does want to save everyone and does love everyone. BUT we were all created in His image but with free will.

If He wants to save everyone, why did He specifically tell the disciples not to go to the Gentiles or to Samaria?

 

[Lost4words]

Jesus did act to save the Gentiles. He gave us Paul for a start....

 

[Hammster]

Jesus did act to save the Gentiles. He gave us Paul for a start....

How does that address the OP?