How many Gentiles and Samaritans could have been saved if Jesus would have sent some disciples there?

[Hammster]

I see now why you are a reformed/calvanist

Which is what?

 

[Hammster]

It addresses the OP because Jesus was not striving to get many people (Jews or Gentiles) saved during His ministry. In other words the premise of your question does not make sense. Jesus's ministry dealt with healing (showing God's goodness) and introducing new NT concepts (largely through parables). He poured himself into a limited number of disciples BY DESIGN as they would start the Church. We see in John 6 that Jesus worked to drive away many would-be followers.

Exactly.

Preaching to get people saved on a large-scale started on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2 where Peter promised salvation (remission of sins & receipt of the Holy Spirit) to those who would repent and be baptized in response to His preaching. That day started as a believers meeting with just 120 (in the Upper room) and added 3000 new believers.

This means that Jesus is more interested in numbers than actual people.

 

[Hammster]

Wasn't his priority also God's chosen people first? Isn't that why Jesus says it is not good to give the children's bread to the dogs? It was just showing Jesus's priority in what order He wanted to reach people, because later we see Jesus sending the Apostles to the Gentiles when Jesus rises from the grave

I know that eventually He sent them to the Gentiles. But I’ve been repeatedly told that Jesus loves everyone the same and wants everyone saved. This shows that to not be true.

 

[Hammster]

This is a question that begs more questions. What about all the gentiles who died while Jesus was working as a carpenter? What about all the gentiles who didn't live in Palestine? Like the ones throughout Africa, Asia and Europe? What about all the gentiles who died between the Mosaic Covenant and the arrival of Christ?

Excellent questions.

 

[ozso]

Excellent questions.

Perhaps the salvation Chirst brought is more inclusive than we give it credit for. Also the one thing that stands out between Jew and Gentile is the Jews were the ones who were under the Law. So perhaps they needed a level of salvation that the Gentiles didn't. It seems that those who were under the Law and knew the most about it, were under the greater level of wrath. While Jesus only sent his disciples to the Jews, the Jews were also the only ones whom Jesus was condemning. What Gentiles did Jesus ever call sons of the devil or a brood of vipers etc? I don't recall Jesus ever expressing wrath towards any Gentile. I just remember encounters like Him praising the faith of the Roman centurion, while at the same time admonishing the Jews for their lack of faith.

10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:10-12

 

[Soyeong]

Was it perfectly normal to pick a group for exclusion?

It's not odd for him to pick a location for them to go, and going to any location location means not going to an of the other locations that they could have gone to.

 

[Hammster]

It's not odd for him to pick a location for them to go, and going to any location location means not going to an of the other locations that they could have gone to.

Was it fair, then, to have the gospel delivered to the Jews and not the Gentiles that day?

 

[YeshuaFollower]

These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: “Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
— Matthew 10:5-6

So here we have Jesus deliberately telling His disciples to not go to the Gentiles nor the Samaritans. How many Gentiles and Samaritans could have been saved if Jesus would have sent some disciples there?

Hello Hammster,

In LUKE 24:47 Jesus did ask that the gospel be preached first to Jerusalem, then to all nations;

"And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." (Luk 24:47, KJV)

also in mark;
Mar 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Scriptures demonstrate they, the disciples preached to all peoples and all nations, it is still a work in progress.

Blessings,

JFF

 

[Hammster]

Hello Hammster,

In LUKE 24:47 Jesus did ask that the gospel be preached first to Jerusalem, then to all nations;

"And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." (Luk 24:47, KJV)

also in mark;
Mar 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Scriptures demonstrate they, the disciples preached to all peoples and all nations, it is still a work in progress.

Blessings,

JFF

That really doesn’t address the question, though.

 

[YeshuaFollower]

That really doesn’t address the question, though.

For me it does answer the question, Jesus did act by asking that the gospel be preached to all nations, it includes the gentiles.
Jesus preached to israel first, then asked the disciples to preach to all nations, certainly also to the samaritains after his ascention. Jesus did act and this work continues today.

Also there is John 4 about the samaritan woman.

Blessings and Peace,

Jff

 

[PloverWing]

Because God has no intention of saving everyone.

Or, perhaps, the salvation of humankind was accomplished through the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Jesus, rather than through preaching; and the purpose of the preaching was to announce that the Kingdom of God had come, with some people hearing that announcement before others.

 

[Hammster]

For me it does answer the question, Jesus did act by asking that the gospel be preached to all nations, it includes the gentiles.
Jesus preached to israel first, then asked the disciples to preach to all nations, certainly also to the samaritains after his ascention. Jesus did act and this work continues today.

Also there is John 4 about the samaritan woman.

Blessings and Peace,

Jff

How does that help the Gentiles who may have died before the gospel was preached to them?

 

[Hammster]

Or, perhaps, the salvation of humankind was accomplished through the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Jesus, rather than through preaching; and the purpose of the preaching was to announce that the Kingdom of God had come, with some people hearing that announcement before others.

Faith comes by hearing.

 

[godisagardener]

How does that help the Gentiles who may have died before the gospel was preached to them?

The bottom line is that God has a plan. He has always had a plan. It's not ours to question the why or how of it.

Romans 1:18-20 tells us that God has revealed Himself to mankind through His creation of the world. Paul tells us that what may be known of God is manifest in man "for God has shown it to them. For since the beginning of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse..." He also said in verse 17 that "The just shall live by faith".

The existence of God is manifest in man. Those Gentiles who might have died before the gospel was preached to them should have already known about God and if they had faith in God they would have been justified by grace through faith. The harlot Rahab was a Gentile yet is mentioned in the faith chapter of Hebrews. The people of Nineveh who Jonah preached to were Gentiles. As long as the knowledge of God was manifest in them, and they had faith, they were saved. Why should it be any different for those Gentiles who died before receiving the gospel?

 

[Hammster]

The bottom line is that God has a plan. He has always had a plan. It's not ours to question the why or how of it.

Romans 1:18-20 tells us that God has revealed Himself to mankind through His creation of the world. Paul tells us that what may be known of God is manifest in man "for God has shown it to them. For since the beginning of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse..." He also said in verse 17 that "The just shall live by faith".

The existence of God is manifest in man. Those Gentiles who might have died before the gospel was preached to them should have already known about God and if they had faith in God they would have been justified by grace through faith. The harlot Rahab was a Gentile yet is mentioned in the faith chapter of Hebrews. The people of Nineveh who Jonah preached to were Gentiles. As long as the knowledge of God was manifest in them, and they had faith, they were saved. Why should it be any different for those Gentiles who died before receiving the gospel?

You make it sound like we don’t even need to proclaim the gospel.

 

[John Mullally]

Preaching to get people saved on a large-scale started on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2 where Peter promised salvation (remission of sins & receipt of the Holy Spirit) to those who would repent and be baptized in response to His preaching. That day started as a believers meeting with just 120 (in the Upper room) and added 3000 new believers.

This means that Jesus is more interested in numbers than actual people.

Christ died for the purpose of providing payment for the sin of all people making it possible for any and all to be saved.

1. God loves all and wants all to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 4:10).
2. In His love for all, He sent Christ to provide payment for the sin of all (1 Timothy 2:6, 1 John 2:2) .
3. Belief in Christ is necessary, however, to receive the benefits of Christ’s death and be saved (John 3:14-15).
4. The gospel should be preached to all, and, upon hearing the gospel, any can come because Christ died for the sins of all people in the world (Mark 16:15-16, John 3:36).

 

[Soyeong]

Was it fair, then, to have the gospel delivered to the Jews and not the Gentiles that day?

It is absurd to suggest that it is unfair to spread the Gospel unless we do so in a way that presents it to everyone on the planet at the same time.

 

[Hammster]

Christ died for the purpose of providing payment for the sin of all people making it possible for any and all to be saved.

1. God loves all and wants all to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 4:10).
2. In His love for all, He sent Christ to provide payment for the sin of all (1 Timothy 2:6, 1 John 2:2) .
3. Belief in Christ is necessary, however, to receive the benefits of Christ’s death and be saved (John 3:14-15).
4. The gospel should be preached to all, and, upon hearing the gospel, any can come because Christ died for the sins of all people in the world (Mark 16:15-16, John 3:36).

How does that address my post?

 

[Hammster]

It is absurd to suggest that it is unfair to spread the Gospel unless we do so in a way that presents it to everyone on the planet at the same time.

Why is it absurd? It God wants all to be saved, should He not provide the same opportunity to all?

 

[bling]

No, I’m asking why, if Jesus loves everyone and wants everyone saved (as I’ve been told), did He forbid the disciples to go to the Gentiles and Samaritans.

By doing it the way He did more Gentiles would be saved sooner. If the twelve wasted time going to the Gentiles there would be less time spent converting the Jews. The Jews were prepared for the Messiah, had the OT, strict moral tradition, and lots of knowledge about God, so you really only had to convince they that Jesus was the Messiah and you had a convert. The gentiles at that time would need lots of education. The Samaritans could be easy converts, but going to the Samaritans first would be a huge stumbling block for the Jews to even listen to the apostles teaching. The kingdom needed the prepared Jews first to have the quick strong converts who could than go after the Gentiles and Samaritans.