How many days did creation take?

[Keachian]

Do you believe the tower of Babel?

The tower of Babel is a good story to talk about the diversity of Language and God's sovereignty over even that, the Pentecost account from Acts 2 also helps to reinforce this by making language no longer a barrier to the communion of the Saints

 

[mark kennedy]

The tower of Babel is a good story to talk about the diversity of Language and God's sovereignty over even that, the Pentecost account from Acts 2 also helps to reinforce this by making language no longer a barrier to the communion of the Saints

Studied that for a while, found out something kind of interesting. Of the thirteen nations mentioned there were eleven languages spoken. Some scholars think that indicates that each of the Apostles came out speaking a different language, the language of the people they were speaking to.

The thing is they could have spoken Aramaic (conversational Hebrew) and all the Jews there would have understood it. It probably has some thematic connection to Babel, what exactly is hard to say. It seems more likely that it was related to the inclusion of the Gentiles.

 

[mark kennedy]

You posing the question can be deceptive, especially when you bring it up in opposition to Theistic Evolution because it often seems as if you are limiting the term "Creationism/Creationist" to YEC, whereas TE is a creationist stance in the wider definition that talks about whether a God created.

I've never been comfortable with being called a Creationist, literalist, fundamentalist, Calvanist, evangelical. It's all true but sometimes I don't think all the flattering titles are healthy for me spiritually. With all those honors and emulations it's so hard to be humble.

From my understanding of the Hebrew word Bara it is a literal creation, but the Nicene creed makes no statement one way or the other about the literalness of Gen1, preferring instead to just make the statement that God created.

They no doubt had Genesis 1 in mind and certainly would never have regarded it as a parable. So maybe you know, what is the incarnation doing sandwiched in between two confessions of the Creation?

 

[Keachian]

Studied that for a while, found out something kind of interesting. Of the thirteen nations mentioned there were eleven languages spoken. Some scholars think that indicates that each of the Apostles came out speaking a different language, the language of the people they were speaking to.

The thing is they could have spoken Aramaic (conversational Hebrew) and all the Jews there would have understood it. It probably has some thematic connection to Babel, what exactly is hard to say. It seems more likely that it was related to the inclusion of the Gentiles.

I don't really see inclusion of the Gentiles until Peter's vision of the unclean animals, Acts 2 also has parallels to Mt. Sinai simply due to the relationship between Pentecost and Shauvot. The thirteen nations is also quite significant in light of this thirteen nations to thirteen tribes of Israel (counting Levi and the two tribes of Joseph)

 

[samaus12345]

And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for mortar.
4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city, and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
5 And the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8 So the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

Do you believe it Progmonk?

Mark where do you reckon the tower of Babel was?

 

[Keachian]

I've never been comfortable with being called a Creationist, literalist, fundamentalist, Calvanist, evangelical. It's all true but sometimes I don't think all the flattering titles are healthy for me spiritually. With all those honors and emulations it's so hard to be humble.

You consider them honours? I'd consider it somewhat insulting that people would identify me with anyone/thing above Christ.

They no doubt had Genesis 1 in mind and certainly would never have regarded it as a parable. So maybe you know, what is the incarnation doing sandwiched in between two confessions of the Creation?

There isn't any mention of 6 days in the Nicene creed, while I do agree that they are referencing Gen 1 among other places in the Bible (seriously if the Bible did not have Gen 1-2 there would still be the doctrine of creation) not being explicit about 6 days makes it possible to have the figurative interpretation that Augustine used in the 4th/5th century. The incarnation is not sandwiched between the two creation confessions, in fact the incarnation comes after the second creation confessions. What is sandwiched between the two is the description of the Son's oneness with the Father, which historically is what they were writing the creed for; in opposition to the Aryan heresy. Taking two statements that the Aryans agree with (that is that both the Father and the Son were involved in creation) and tying that into the oneness of those two persons of the Trinity.

 

[Keachian]

And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for mortar.
4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city, and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
5 And the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8 So the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

Do you believe it Progmonk?

It also, (reading it again) talks to God not liking people justifying themselves before God which is a true statement. I think the fact that us trying to justify ourselves only leads to separation from each other and even exclusion from God is a very powerful message and further shows why we need Christ.

 

[samaus12345]

So you put a pseudo-interpretation on it? (again).

 

[Keachian]

So you put a pseudo-interpretation on it? (again).

Whether it is historic or parabolic, what we get out of it to apply to our spiritual walk with God is what is most important.

 

[samaus12345]

It Is A Historical Event. I Expect A Reply To This. Where Did Our Languages Come From?

 

[Keachian]

It Is A Historical Event. I Expect A Reply To This. Where Did Our Languages Come From?

God

 

[samaus12345]

How? and which 'god'? A 'god'? that used death disease and suffering to bring about "let us make man in our image" over 'millions and millions' of years? and then L I E D when he said everything was 'very good'? and omitted it from his word? is that the 'god' your talking about? Which God please?

 

[Keachian]

How? and which 'god'? A 'god'? that used death disease and suffering to bring about "let us make man in our image" over 'millions and millions' of years? and then L I E D when he said everything was 'very good'? and omitted it from his word? is that the 'god' your talking about? Which God please?

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man; he was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried, and the third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father; from thence he shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.
And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets.
In one holy catholic and apostolic Church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

[Metal Minister]

I always find this stance strange, especially when you realise that Adam and Eve would have needed to have some point of reference for what their punishment for eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is. I can totally see it:

God: Don't eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, or you will die.
Adam: Sure thing God, but what exactly is 'die'?
God: Well it's something evil...
Adam: Oh, so now I have some form of knowledge of what is good (following your commandments) and what is evil (dying).

It seems so materialistic.

Not quite Prog. Lol. Remember, Adam would have no need to question God about why he should or shouldnt do something.

May God Richly Bless You! MM

 

[Keachian]

Not quite Prog. Lol. Remember, Adam would have no need to question God about why he should or shouldnt do something.

May God Richly Bless You! MM

I agree, I was just commenting on the point that the consequence was given wilfully by God and so from that there may have been some basis of understanding what the consequence would have been.

The apostle Paul also wrote that to live was Christ and to die was gain, but then that hope is founded in Christ.

 

[Metal Minister]

Genesis 2:4 "This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created..."

this narrative opens explaining they are about to give an account of when the heavens and earth where created. Genesis 1-2:3 seems to have already given an account so the text says in itself it is retelling the story.

Genesis 2:5 "Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground."

ok we have an earth with dry land but there is no vegetation. If we are to assume this follows the creation account in Genesis 1 then this must mean it is part way in day 3 since on day 3 God made both dry land and vegetation. but as we read on day 4, 5 are skipped and it seems to jump right into day 6. Remember the OP when I said day 3 and 6 can be paired together well Genesis 2 happens to confirm this as well.

In 2:5 the text says there was no vegetation because there was no rain or anyone to cultivate the earth. In verse 6 it shows us how a mist would rise from the earth to water the ground and then verse 7 man is created. After man is created in verse 8 God plants the Garden of Eden. There seems to be this back and forth motion here that is inconsistent with the literal days presented in Genesis 1. God creates dry land, then he creates man, then he plants vegetation which are examples of day 3 and day 6 being completely overlapped.

If you want to believe the account in Genesis 2 all took place on day 6 then you are ignoring the command God gave on day 3 saying "let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them" This is what I mean by reconciling the two accounts.

No, actually when you see this is the account of or these are the generations of, its actually the previous author signing off if you will.

May God Richly Bless You! MM

 

[Keachian]

No, actually when you see this is the account of or these are the generations of, its actually the previous author signing off if you will.

May God Richly Bless You! MM

It's a contention within academic circles as to whether those verses start or finish the accounts, I personally lean towards them being redactor headings.

 

[samaus12345]

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."


Hadean - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The name "Hadean" derives from Hades, Greek for "Underworld", referring to the "hellish" conditions on Earth at the time

It is unlikely that life could have formed and established itself in the extreme, volatile conditions of the Hadean. If life had begun to form at this time, it most likely would have been destroyed several times, being forced to start over again

"And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters"

"And the earth was ' hellish' and a hot molten blob'

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

"non living matter gave life into itself and turned into a cell"

"the tree of life also in the midst of the garden"

Darwins 'tree of life' /phylogenetic tree

Filearwin tree of life.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Phylogenetic tree - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Keachian]

<snip>

God is in control, I put my trust in him...

 

[samaus12345]

Which god? Some pseudo god of mixing multiple incompatible 100% diametrically opposed doctrines together and that of cult leaders?