How Long?

[JonMiller]

But what happens when you've already done this, and the bad stuff keeps piling up? What then???

We're always quick to suggest that people with problems are at fault because they must not be giving everything to God, but so slow to understand that it's not always the people with problems that are the problem.

For example, what about all of those innocent people that get raped, murdered, abused, malested, and beat up..., do these things happen to them because they haven't given everything to God?

That isn't meaning that bad stuff won't happen to you if Christ takes the wheel. It means that bad stuff won't really hurt you. Not in ways that matter.

JM

 

[Telaquapacky]

Woob,
I don't know if this is helpful, but, have you ever noticed that the people who take things the hardest are the ones the obnoxious people in this world love to torment most? The more injured you act, the more they want to injure you, to make sport of you and enjoy your discomfiture. But people who take things in stride, who let insults pass like water off a duck's back, they leave alone. Why? Because tormenting those people is no fun. In fact, it only makes the tormentor feel worse about themselves- You know the verse about pouring hot coals over someone by returning evil with kindness?

Romans 12:20 On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.


Now I'm not saying don't take legal action against these bad actors. Do what you can to recover what is lost and take advantage as far as possible of whatever legal means, however inadequate, to ameliorate your loss.

But I think Satan hits us more when we grouse and complain, and when he sees that he can ruin our joy in life and make us question God. On the other hand, when we react in grace and faith, and it shows that material things are not so important to us, Satan leaves us alone- he doesn't want to give us an opportunity for a good witness!

Faith doesn't always mean trusting that God will dig you out of your ditch. Sometimes Faith means trusting that God is with you in that ditch, and being thankful for His company.

A story I like by Corrie Ten Boom, is when she and her sister were in the concentration camp (I think it was Ravensbruch), and the fleas in the barracks were driving them crazy. They read in the Bible to give thanks for all things, in all circumstances. They had a Bible, which was a miracle and a blessing in itself, because if the guards found it, they would confiscate it, and the women in that barracks would have no Bible. So the women knelt one evening and praised God and thanked Him for the fleas!

Later someone overheard the guards talking. They learned that the guards hated to inspect that barracks because every time they went in, they were attacked by fleas, so they only did cursory and inadequate searches. The women realized that it was because of the fleas that they were able to have the Bible.

Faith counts it that everything that comes into our lives is allowed by God for a purpose- not caused by Him, but allowed. It's only through these discomforts that He is able to bless us with the greatest spiritual blessings. And the greatest blessing any Christian would ever want is the opportunity to glorify God by trusting Him in spite of circumstances.

Your floor will burn some day. But the testimony of your faith, by the way you react to things with grace and faith will last forever. How long will bad actors rip you off and torment you? How long do you want to do you want your life witness to glorify Him by you praising Him in all circumstances? When you give these things a purpose, it makes them easier to take. This isn't a problem. This is an opportunity!

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Woob,
I don't know if this is helpful, but, have you ever noticed that the people who take things the hardest are the ones the obnoxious people in this world love to torment most? The more injured you act, the more they want to injure you, to make sport of you and enjoy your discomfiture. But people who take things in stride, who let insults pass like water off a duck's back, they leave alone. Why? Because tormenting those people is no fun. In fact, it only makes the tormentor feel worse about themselves-

Careful Woob. Notice the trap here? They want to drag you back to the land of muzzling yourself for their convenience. Do NOT be deceived, doing THEIR work for them, to shame and invalidate yourself out of your OWN feelings, will NOT bring you the relief they promise. I learned that lesson at the age of six when I was told to deal with bullies by "ignoring them". How long do you think the attention span of a six year old lasts, Woob? Fifteen minutes maybe? Then they'd likely move on, yeah? WRONG. I would "ignore them" for HOURS on end and it never mattered, they just KEPT at it and KEPT at it until they wore me down.

These words above are a trap Woob. You have emerged from the prison THEY seek to impose, you are speaking TRUTHFULLY about how you feel. They want more than anything to silence you for they fear this above all. You must not be deceived. You must not let them trick you into muzzling yourself for their convenience. Notice how excuses are made for that behavior, too? As if it is something God ordains -- this pack of vultures mentality of singling out those who are in pain to heap further suffering upon them? Notice, not ONE WORD about the wrongness and total, utter, evil corrupt sinful selfishness of that behavior -- NOT ONE!! -- instead, an attempt to portray that as something ordained by God. WRONG!

Do NOT be deceived Woob. Do NOT let them drag you back down to where you were hiding before, in fear. I am with you and I will defend you as long as you remain in My Realm.

 

[djconklin]

Originally Posted by Telaquapacky
Woob,
I don't know if this is helpful, but, have you ever noticed that the people who take things the hardest are the ones the obnoxious people in this world love to torment most? The more injured you act, the more they want to injure you, to make sport of you and enjoy your discomfiture. But people who take things in stride, who let insults pass like water off a duck's back, they leave alone. Why? Because tormenting those people is no fun. In fact, it only makes the tormentor feel worse about themselves-

Careful Woob. Notice the trap here? They want to drag you back to the land of muzzling yourself for their convenience. Do NOT be deceived, doing THEIR work for them, to shame and invalidate yourself out of your OWN feelings, will NOT bring you the relief they promise. I learned that lesson at the age of six when I was told to deal with bullies by "ignoring them". How long do you think the attention span of a six year old lasts, Woob? Fifteen minutes maybe? Then they'd likely move on, yeah? WRONG. I would "ignore them" for HOURS on end and it never mattered, they just KEPT at it and KEPT at it until they wore me down.

I'd say that both of you gave good advice. The problem you had was that you had to face the bully all on your own. Now if good people band together and tell the bullies "Knock it off!" they'd be less likely (they'll never muzzle themselves 'cause their not that smart.) to keep dishing it out.

Do NOT let them drag you back down to where you were hiding before, in fear. I am with you and I will defend you as long as you remain in My Realm.

Same here! Those of us who still believe the Bible is the Word of God to man have to stick together.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Now if good people band together and tell the bullies "Knock it off!" they'd be less likely (they'll never muzzle themselves 'cause their not that smart.) to keep dishing it out.

My color is black to the blind, but the blue and the gold are seen of the Seeing.

Excellent Sight, you hit the nail right on the head. YES. This is precisely what is needed: for good people to NOT do nothing. And to not shame/blame/invalidate the victim/target, nor fuss at them for complaining of ill treatment with words designed to hurt/shame/blame them (e.g. "whiner", "victim mentality", "you need to FORGIVE", whatever) but to give them SUPPORT and ENDURE them to share their REAL feelings. The only way OUT of pain is THROUGH.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Woob,
I don't know if this is helpful, but, have you ever noticed that the people who take things the hardest are the ones the obnoxious people in this world love to torment most? The more injured you act, the more they want to injure you, to make sport of you and enjoy your discomfiture. But people who take things in stride, who let insults pass like water off a duck's back, they leave alone. Why? Because tormenting those people is no fun. In fact, it only makes the tormentor feel worse about themselves- You know the verse about pouring hot coals over someone by returning evil with kindness?

Romans 12:20 On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.


Now I'm not saying don't take legal action against these bad actors. Do what you can to recover what is lost and take advantage as far as possible of whatever legal means, however inadequate, to ameliorate your loss.

But I think Satan hits us more when we grouse and complain, and when he sees that he can ruin our joy in life and make us question God. On the other hand, when we react in grace and faith, and it shows that material things are not so important to us, Satan leaves us alone- he doesn't want to give us an opportunity for a good witness!

Faith doesn't always mean trusting that God will dig you out of your ditch. Sometimes Faith means trusting that God is with you in that ditch, and being thankful for His company.

A story I like by Corrie Ten Boom, is when she and her sister were in the concentration camp (I think it was Ravensbruch), and the fleas in the barracks were driving them crazy. They read in the Bible to give thanks for all things, in all circumstances. They had a Bible, which was a miracle and a blessing in itself, because if the guards found it, they would confiscate it, and the women in that barracks would have no Bible. So the women knelt one evening and praised God and thanked Him for the fleas!

Later someone overheard the guards talking. They learned that the guards hated to inspect that barracks because every time they went in, they were attacked by fleas, so they only did cursory and inadequate searches. The women realized that it was because of the fleas that they were able to have the Bible.

Faith counts it that everything that comes into our lives is allowed by God for a purpose- not caused by Him, but allowed. It's only through these discomforts that He is able to bless us with the greatest spiritual blessings. And the greatest blessing any Christian would ever want is the opportunity to glorify God by trusting Him in spite of circumstances.

Your floor will burn some day. But the testimony of your faith, by the way you react to things with grace and faith will last forever. How long will bad actors rip you off and torment you? How long do you want to do you want your life witness to glorify Him by you praising Him in all circumstances? When you give these things a purpose, it makes them easier to take. This isn't a problem. This is an opportunity!

Amen! You're absolutely right.

Woob, if you were to make a list of every person you truly admire, what kind of people would be on your list?

Do you think it would be filled with people that were really lucky and won the lottery or always had everything handed to them? No way. I know for a fact your list wouldn't look like that.

The people we admire are the ones that have had to face terrible tribulations, tribulations we cannot even begin to imagine experiencing ourselves, and they overcame. They remained strong and faithful, and against all odds they not only survived, but they thrived even.

They were so strong they gave other people encouragement to be strong as well...THOSE are the type of people that we admire.

And Woob...my parents have built three houses in their 40+ years of marriage. With every house they have under their belt, they have memories of coming "this close" to a divorce.

It is a VERY stressful thing to build or remodel a home. Not just because a couple's tastes differ on things, but because you are put in a position to trust other people to do things for you that you don't know how to do yourself.

If you're on a budget you have to compromise and get things you don't necessarily WANT, and that's stressful. I think especially for the husband because he doesn't just want to provide, he wants to please his wife.

But any house and any faith that is worth having is built on a strong FOUNDATION.

If the foundation is good, you can add nice things later, and eventually it will be exactly like what you want it to be.

Those guys did a very bad thing, there's no doubt about it, but you'll get to the point where my dad is now where a contractor can walk in and KNOW that he is not someone they can push around or extort. He'll stand over them if necessary to get exactly what he wants.

Tel is right, they only try to get by with stuff like that when they think they CAN. They'll only bully you if you let them.

I'd stop the reputation right now and let any worker walking into your house know that it's going to be done RIGHT.

 

[sentipente]

For example, what about all of those innocent people that get raped, murdered, abused, malested, and beat up..., do these things happen to them because they haven't given everything to God?

Maybe it is time for you to realize that the theology you hold on to is the primary reason why all these awful things continue to exist in this world. You can't have your cake and eat it as well.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

that is a vicious and vile thing to say to someone being pushed around by life. how dare you attempt spiritual molestation in My presence. you will NOT opportunistically seize upon your brother's suffering as an occasion to press your theological gripe NOR shall you attempt to manipulate his conscience by taking advantage of his pain. SHAME on you. DESPICABLE. DISGRACEFUL.

 

[sentipente]

Do you realize how often the truth rubs us the wrong way? Think about that. If you are being pushed around by life maybe you should consider to what extent you are contributing to that "life."

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

vile. that line of thought is vicious poison. someone forced you to swallow it at some point and now you ameliorate the memory of that horrible time by trying to force another to swallow. you will not accomplish this in My presence.

authentic truth does not "rub the wrong way"; it liberates. the falsehood of rubbing the wrong way is invented by poisoners to peddle poison as truth.

 

[SpeakNow]

Vicious is the perfect word for that post.

 

[sentipente]

Moriah, Woob has presented himself here as a tough guy who is perfectly capable of dealing with the harsh truth. This won't break him. He does expect the internet to change the people who have made his life difficult. Now, if you want to discuss the truth of what I have posted let's have the discussion, but please stick to what you know. You do not know what I have swallowed or under what circumstances I swallowed it. Keep your emotions in check.

 

[SpeakNow]

He's going through a tough time right now and you want to tell him that it's because his theology is wrong. That is a horrible thing to say to another Christian.

Bad things happen to good people.

He loves the same God you do, but you're telling him that he's doing it wrong, which I guess implies that you know how to do it right.

This is inexcusable. You should be very ashamed of yourself.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I am sticking to what I know. I know that no one willingly imbibes what you threw out there. It is forced upon them. Some assimilate the poison and become poisoners. Others reject it and fight. I rejected it and continue to reject it and will reject it forever, for the Spirit of the Living God is NOT in it. I don't need to know you personally to know you were forced to swallow it like anyone else who ever did.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

He's going through a tough time right now and you want to tell him that it's because his theology is wrong. That is a horrible thing to say to another Christian.

Bad things happen to good people.

He loves the same God you do, but you're telling him that he's doing it wrong, which I guess implies that you know how to do it right.

This is inexcusable. You should be very ashamed of yourself.

^^ Thank you. The voice of reason, if you will not hear Mine. ^^

 

[sentipente]

He's going through a tough time right now and you want to tell him that it's because his theology is wrong. That is a horrible thing to say to another Christian.

Bad things happen to good people.

I guess you would also be opposed to the physician informing the cancer patient that his cigarettes have something to do with his cancer. I suggest you read the entire thread and read my other posts in this thread.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Moriah, I see you've met Sentipente.

Please do not let his views influence your overall perception of the Adventist church or the people in it.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I guess you would also be opposed to the physician informing the cancer patient that his cigarettes have something to do with his cancer. I suggest you read the entire thread and read my other posts in this thread.

Bad analogy. Cigarettes are scientifically linked to cancer. Your theological contentions are subjective, as are his, as are mine, as are anyone's.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Moriah, I see you've met Sentipente.

Please do not let his views influence your overall perception of the Adventist church or the people in it.

There is little risk of that happening. My overall perception thereof is based entirely upon my own experiences therewith.

 

[sentipente]

Moriah, are you suggesting that life has nothing to do with theology? Theology is not just a discussion of ideas. It influences how we relate to the world. I do wish you would abandon the false assertion that I have blamed Woob's misfortune on his theology. Read all my posts in the thread.