• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

How long will Christians wait for the "second coming"

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics' started by Dave RP, Jul 3, 2017.

  1. CrystalDragon

    CrystalDragon Well-Known Member

    +1,603
    Catholic
    Single

    Jesus outright said that the generation of those standing before him wouldn't pass away until the second coming happened, and some would still be alive. People have made excuses for why it didn't happen to admit that Jesus's supposed words written by other people who weren't Jesus (or in that group of Apostles he spoke to) decades after may have been wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  2. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

    +2,601
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
  3. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

    +19,716
    United States
    Lutheran
    In Relationship
    US-Others
    Some of us are of the opinion that looking for "the end times" is contrary to the basic teaching of Jesus which He gives in the Olivet Discourse, namely when He speaks of "wars and rumors of wars" and things people might look for as "signs" He says these aren't signs, these are not indications that the end is near, they're just what happen. The only clear teaching He gives concerning His coming is that nobody can know when, and so trying to figure it out is a fool's errand. That hasn't stopped Christians from trying to figure it out, even some of the better minds of Christianity's past have fallen into the temptation of trying to figure out someway to guess at dates or claim that the end is near because of events X, Y, and/or Z.

    I don't believe Jesus, or Scripture for that matter, give us a timetable, or some way of making determinations about these things. The Parousia could happen in ten minutes from now, or it could happen in ten thousand years from now.

    The point isn't to say, "Ah! everything's lining up, it must happen in a couple years!" but that we have no way of knowing, and Jesus told us as much. We aren't supposed to be sitting around idly twiddling our thumbs, but going about the work Christ gave us--preaching the Gospel, loving our neighbor, feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, and caring about all that are in the world.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  4. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

    +19,716
    United States
    Lutheran
    In Relationship
    US-Others
    Jesus uses this language in reference to two things, the destruction of Jerusalem and the "coming of the Son of Man into His kingdom"; neither of which are the second coming.

    It's common to read the statement about the Son of Man on the clouds and entering His kingdom and to assume this means the Parousia, though the language seems like a pretty explicit allusion to the book of Daniel,

    "I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed." - Daniel 7:13-14

    In Daniel's vision the son of man is going up, being taken up, before the Ancient of Days to receive kingdom and power. Compare this with Jesus' statement about the Son of Man coming into His kingdom on clouds, and then also compare the language used by the Evangelists concerning Jesus' ascension, where He is taken on clouds up into the heavens; and the language used throughout the New Testament where Jesus is seated at the right hand of God the Father, having been given all dominion and authority, etc.

    When in Matthew's Gospel it says "this generation will not pass away" it is reference to all the things Jesus has said concerning the destruction of Jerusalem, the same is true in Luke 21's version of the Olivet Discourse.

    The confusion arises by conflating the things being spoken about in the Olivet Discourse as though they are all talking about the same thing. But Jesus specifically talks about the destruction of Jersualem and its temple, which He associates with signs, such as armies being encamped around the city; when He talks about His return He says just the opposite--there are no signs for this, it comes without warning, it happens when nobody expects it to happen.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  5. Silmarien

    Silmarien Existentialist

    +5,127
    United States
    Anglican
    Single
    US-Democrat
    Uh... actually, yes. I find it hard to conceptualize how a victory over the forces of entropy can really be finalized until they've run their course with the collapse of the universe. Or maybe when it stops expanding? Assuming our astronomy is correct. Either way, I guess I simultaneously will wait forever and think that the pre-modern context for dealing with this question doesn't really work anymore.

    Eh, what can I say. I really like cosmic theology.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  6. John 1720

    John 1720 Harvest Worker Supporter

    +441
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Constitution
    Hello CD,
    With real estate it is location, location, location but with the Bible it is always context, context, context - although location of the text, in this particular instance, is also quite key for thee.
    So yes, the "some" in this instance were called Peter, James and John, which is why the transfiguration immediately follows Jesus saying this in the Gospels. And yes they did see Christ in all His Glory and hear the Father attest to whom He was completely transcendent from their three dimensional perception of time/space - a glimpse into the Day of the Lord; which, as I told you previously today, does "not" come until His Gospel is proclaimed as a witness to all nations - 'ethne' people groups. Erchomai Kyrios!
    Pope Francis Appoints a Universalist


    Luke 9:27-36
    • But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God.” Now it came to pass, about eight days after these sayings, that He took Peter, John, and James and went up on the mountain to pray. As He prayed, the appearance of His face was altered, and His robe became white and glistening. And behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of His decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. But Peter and those with him were heavy with sleep; and when they were fully awake, they saw His glory and the two men who stood with Him. Then it happened, as they were parting from Him, that Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is good for us to be here; and let us make three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah”—not knowing what he said.
    • While he was saying this, a cloud came and overshadowed them; and they were fearful as they entered the cloud. And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!” When the voice had ceased, Jesus was found alone. But they kept quiet, and told no one in those days any of the things they had seen.
    It of course made a lasting impression as a seminal event as Peter spoke of it afterward in his letter just before Nero had him crucified as his final testimony to the churches.

    2 Peter 1:16-18
    • For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
    In Christ, John 17:20

     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  7. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid Life is lived in the shape of a "?" Supporter

    +6,685
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    At a personal level, I suppose I'll be 'waiting' for Christ to return as long as I need to.... :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  8. John 1720

    John 1720 Harvest Worker Supporter

    +441
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Constitution
    Aye!!!
    And even whether I be pushing up daisies, oaks or sequoia trees I know my redeemer liveth and that I shall see Him coming on the clouds of Glory to call me!!!

    John 5:28
    • “Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
    Job 19:23-27
    • “Oh, that my words were written! Oh, that they were inscribed in a book! (they are Job) That they were engraved on a rock with an iron pen and lead, forever! (in His nail pierced hands they are Job) For I know that my Redeemer lives, and He shall stand at last on the earth; and after my skin is destroyed, this I know, that in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another. How my heart yearns within me!!!

    Amen John!
    Amen Job!
    Amen BDW!

     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  9. Dave RP

    Dave RP Well-Known Member

    985
    +551
    United Kingdom
    Atheist
    Divorced
    UK-Liberal-Democrats
    I understand Muslims are also waiting for the return of Jesus to bring in the "end times", does that mean they will also be joining Christians in heaven once judgement is made?
     
  10. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

    +19,716
    United States
    Lutheran
    In Relationship
    US-Others
    Well, I'd state firstly the historic teaching of the Christian faith isn't that we get to go to a place called "heaven", but is instead resurrection and the life to come, it's the renewal of creation that Christianity historically hopes for. The penultimate vision in the Apocalypse describes not us going up to God, but God coming down to us.

    Secondly, whether those who are Muslims in this life will have a place in that future life is the sort of thing that Christians are inevitably going to disagree on; chiefly that there are some Christians who believe that if one isn't a Christian in this life then they are irrevocably damned, that certainly isn't a universal Christian belief however. For many, perhaps arguably most, Christians the only thing we're really willing to say with any certainty is that God alone can know these things.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  11. Dave RP

    Dave RP Well-Known Member

    985
    +551
    United Kingdom
    Atheist
    Divorced
    UK-Liberal-Democrats
    Thanks, interesting because I was quoted many times "No one comes to the Father except through me." and the Christians I met told me that Christianity categorically teaches that unless you embrace Jesus as your saviour, you will be eternally damned. Hence ALL Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists etc. are in the "lake of fire" for eternity. It's one of the main reasons I couldn't accept Christian teaching.
     
  12. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

    +19,716
    United States
    Lutheran
    In Relationship
    US-Others
    What is often missed when that passage is quoted is its context. The thesis of the Gospel of John can be found in the prologue (the first chapter), wherein it begins, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God" a bit later saying, "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us" and a few verses after, "No one has ever seen God, the only begotten Son* who is at the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known." (*many manuscripts read "only-begotten God"). That is to say, the thesis is that Jesus Christ is the Word of God, the One God the Father has sent, the One who makes God known to us. In the immediate context, this is in the same discussion where Jesus is asked, "Show us the Father", and He responds, "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father", Jesus response of "I am the way..." is in response to being asked, "Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?"

    What Jesus' statement doesn't say is, "Believing the right things about me is how you get to heaven." Further, Jesus can be the only way to be saved without the implication that one must subscribe to the right theological propositions in order to be saved. For example, it is my earnest hope and prayer that ultimately all will be saved, this is the ancient and pious hope of the Christian Church; and I am hopeful that there will be many, kingdom come, will be there who were not practicing Christians in this life. That hope is not that there will be people who are saved without Jesus, but that are saved because of Jesus even if they never confessed His name or knew Him in this life.

    This gets to a very different way of talking about salvation however. One that doesn't treat salvation as a ticket to paradise through having the right set of beliefs; but instead one that places the locus on what Jesus has done already, namely that the work of Christ is universal. I don't mean "Universalism" so much as I mean that Christ's atoning work--dying and rising from the dead--are not about the subjective experience of the individual, but rather the objective reality of what Jesus did. That is, we'd say, that Christ died for the sins of the whole world, not just in theory, but in fact. God doesn't forgive our sins because we do X, Y, or Z--God forgives our sins at the Cross of Jesus Christ, all sin is forgiven already by Christ, and the preaching of the Gospel is the preaching that our sins are forgiven, and the victory has been achieved over the powers of sin, death, hell, the devil, and the world by Jesus already. The appropriation of this to us, here and now, through the preaching of the Gospel and the Sacraments is our being brought into the objective reality of what Jesus has done already for the whole world. The ancient father of the Church, St. Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 190 AD) wrote of Christ as bringing complete healing to what it means to be human, that includes death because all humans die--thus in dying Christ bears the reality of all human death in Himself; we can say that when Christ died everyone died. It is in light of this that Christ's resurrection means not only that He Himself has ceased to be dead, but that there is resurrection for all--because Christ is risen, we shall rise; Christ's victory is our victory.

    It's a common notion among lots of Christians, usually of a certain type or theological disposition; but this has absolutely never been the universal consensus of the Christian faith, whether in antiquity, historically, or today. The reality is that at no point in the history of the Church has there ever been anything resembling a definitive statement about such matters. The Church (by which I mean the historic, orthodox community of faith) confesses as dogma that salvation is found in Christ alone; but what it has never confessed as dogma is that those who are not Christians are entirely without hope whatsoever; because we simply can't say such a thing, because we aren't God.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  13. Dave RP

    Dave RP Well-Known Member

    985
    +551
    United Kingdom
    Atheist
    Divorced
    UK-Liberal-Democrats
    Thank you, that is the most lucid and easily understood response to a very complex question I have ever seen.
     
  14. Motherofkittens

    Motherofkittens Active Member

    455
    +424
    United States
    Humanist
    Married
    US-Democrat
    It's going to be once again another failed prediction/prophesy.
     
  15. PaaKne

    PaaKne Member

    127
    +112
    Christian
    Single
    This is opposite to what the Word quoted actually says: "... for THE SON OF MAN cometh at an hour ye THINK NOT"!

    The Son of Man "...which is taken up from you into heaven,..." (Acts, 1 11) "...shall so come in like manner as ye [Galilean men - His disiples] have seen him go into heaven " (Acts 1,11). Which manner was that? a) Jesus and His disiples were alone, this was no "public show" and no other men than his diciples seems to have been present.b) It happened "when He beheld" (Acts 1,9) or "straight after He has spoken this" as the Norwegian translation reads. Does the heaven and world pass away with no-one exept His diciples present and as soon as He again start talking?

    Yes, we are commanded to learn a lesson from the fig tree and yes, we are commanded to be aware of the heavenly signals given before his second (and third!) coming. However, knowing the time isn't His command, in fact this isn't at all for us (Acts 1, 7, The Norwegian translation is "shaper" than KJV and says about "doesn't consern you (at all) to know"). Everyone trying have so far broken their back, as the Bible isn't a book in advanced mathematichs to be solved before his second comping (like he left in front of the apostles) or third coming (with all his saints (1st Thessalonians 3,13, the Norwegian translation use the expression "togheter with all his holy persons, the last words reflecting his bought and cleanced property).

    As Christians, we have never been commanded (or asked) to do any meteriously calculations, we have been commanded to be prepared. Stay prepared until He has prepared our mansions in his Father's house (John 14,2), returns and the sound of the truphet is calling - be it in the morning light, in the day, in the afternoon or at midnight. (In fact it will be in all those times of the the day, as He has "his holy persons" all around our earth and in diffenrent time zones!) Ready for the heavenly wedding, while (det som nå holder igje) - his Bride, his property, the Christians - are "(ryddet av veien") on earth and the wrath of God poured out upon it.

    Also remember: While some things need to happen before his third coming (with all his saints, 1st Thessalonians 3,13), e.g the revelation of Anti-Christ, absolutely nothing more needs to happen before his second coming (like when he left his apostles) and the Christian's call to the heavenly wedding. The fig tree IS already blossoming (Mark 13, 28-29), the dead bones ARE living (Ezekiel 37), and the time of the gentiles are passed, as Jerusalem again (and for sure not planned by man!) in 1967 - 50 years ago - was returned in the hands of his eartly people (Luke 21,24) - at for sure nothing of that planned by man! Also, a lot of what seemed like nonsence for generation after generation , is today clearer than ever. The Beast e.g will require a payment system without money - completely nonsense for all those generations where money and payments were equals, today this is prepared (and people also prepared for/trained in such use, except in parts of "3rd, world", but more and more here as well). One-way-TV - unimaginable for hundrets for years - is "old news", now TV with cameras ase coming. Together with a more and more widely known English this is making Revelation 13,8 practially possible. Not much left to be handled before The Beast and Anti-Christ can be revealed, and BEFORE that his Bride - his disiples - has followed the same order as given to John: "Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter." (Revelation 4,1).

    Why all this is trustable? Beacuse everything in his Word that has happened in the past has happened EXACTLY - to the tiniest details - like He told before. (Just think about all details for his earthly birth and his crucifixion, and compare with the prophets living 1000+ years before!) Why should His Word be less reliable when talking about what is the future in OUR view then when talking about the the future in e.g Isaiah's or Mika's view? Dawinists consider their theories reliable because they are possible science, given spesific circumstances, but can't show to any experience, they just "assume" this or that. Christians also build upon the EXPERIENCE persons they trust have testimoned about after this was made visible straight before their eyes, and today viewable in the reverse mirror!

    So yes, CHRISTIANS will (with more or less patience) wait until He arrives, Those only having a christian label will not, they'll continue to buy and sell just like they did until Noah and his familiy went into the ark and "the LORD (not Noah!) shut him in" (Genesis 7,16).

    About post #9: "There were indications in the Bible they thought the end times were 2000 years ago. The Apostles thought it, Jesus implied it, etc." Can you give a spesific REFERENCE FROM THE BIBLE to that the apostle thougt this and that Jesus implied this? If not, this is only an imagination of absolutely NO value (btw not the one and only of these in the Catholic Church..) Some of the apostle HOPED it immidiately after their (earthly) Jesus had left them, but this isn't at all equal to "thought it". They were also "child of their time" until Heaven had educated them.

    About post #14: "Did Jesus really say that? Did they just misinterpret what he said? Was Jesus wrong?" Well what was the question in ?
    Jesus was not wrong - he is GOD and he was present when God created the world (Proverbs 8,30). Also, Jesu disiple John was a user of parts of this material, By not correcting it, he - knowing Jesus excellent - has staded this. And finally (2. Tim 3,16)

    About post #29: "I understand Muslims are also waiting for the return of Jesus to bring in the "end times", does that mean they will also be joining Christians in heaven once judgement is made?" No, the Lake of Fire is waiting them, just like it is awaiting all others not seeking Jesus as their savior. Why? Because they are judged (etter sine gjerningr) - and the conclution here is found in (for deres gjerninger var onde). The Lake of Fire wasn't at all prepared for man (beredt Djevelen...). However, a man neighter seeking Jesus as his Savior nor by his own work fulfilling the law of God to the last comma has choosen the Lake of Fire, and his end of his earthly life will be just like in (kopperormen). None of those hurted by (kopperormen) needed to die, some choosed it.

    About post #31: This is a bit TO easy (read: dangourus easy) answered - but it's a typical (neo)-Lutheran view when forgetting "Sola Scriptura". The Word of God is clear: "I am THE way", not "a way" or "one way") This doesn't give as any implicatian than one must belive in the right thelogial propositions", but it does give as an implication that one must belive in Jesus as Son of God (if not one is making him a liar!) What is "my feelings" and "my earnest hope" has no validation - it's sola SCRIPTURA! Trying to make the LORD a more "nice granddad" than the Bible descrie him is humanly understandable - but it is NOT Sola Scriptura. Christ died for ALL sin and no person will get to the Lake of Fire due to his sin, but due to his own refusal of Jesus as his Savior and trying to get saved another (humanly seen "more acceptable") way.
     
  16. CrystalDragon

    CrystalDragon Well-Known Member

    +1,603
    Catholic
    Single
    I stopped waiting for the "second coming" several years ago. I don't think it's ever going to happen.
     
  17. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

    +1,014
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    US-Republican
    "END TIMES" TIME-LINE ...2017!

    Here's my best guess at a "time-line"...
    Based primarily on Jesus' Prophecy of the "end of the ages" ....Matthew 24

    1. "birth pangs"...increasing intensity and frequency of world problems...NOW!

    2. Time unknown: BEGIN 7 years of Tribulation / GREAT Tribulation

    3. During the First 3.5 years...persecutions, apostasy's (CHURCH grows cold), rise of anti-christ

    4. God the Holy Spirit is removed with believers / "Second Coming" of Christ / "rapturo" event ...I Thess. 4

    5. During the Last 3.5 years...approach Armegeddon, near "world annihilation"

    6. War stops, satan bound, Jesus rules for 1000 years, (Millenial Kingdom),144,000 Jewish evangelists point to Messiah in Jerusalem on His Throne

    7. satan and "friends"/followers released (Revelation), earth destroyed by fire...(1 Peter 3)

    8. New Heavens + New Earth + New Jerusalem...Rev 21-22
     
  18. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

    +1,014
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    US-Republican
    The TRUMPETS!?!?

    Hmmm..."Second Coming"?..."Rapturo"?.... all are FUTURE "trumpets"??

    Matthew 24:31
    And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet
    and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

    1 Thessalonians 4:16
    For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God,
    and the dead in Christ will rise first.

    1 Corinthians 15...
    51 Behold, I tell you a mystery;
    we will not all sleep,
    but we will all be changed,
    52 in a moment,
    in the twinkling of an eye,
    at the last trumpet;
    for the trumpet will sound,

    and the dead will be raised imperishable,
    and we will be changed.

    Revelation 11:15 [ The Seventh Trumpet — Christ’s Reign Foreseen ]
    Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,
    “The kingdom of the world has become
    the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ;
    and He will reign forever and ever.”

    Revelation 19: The Second Coming of Christ
    11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called "Faithful and True", and in righteousness He JUDGES and "Wages War. "
    12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.
    13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and
    His name is called "The Word of God".
    14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.
    15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword,
    so that with it He may strike down the nations,
    and He will rule them with a rod of iron;
    and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
    16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

    Revelation 20: the Millenium Reign of Jesus on HIs Throne in Jerusalem
    5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.
    This is the first resurrection.
    6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the "first resurrection";
    over these the "second death" ("lake of fire") has no power,
    but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
     
  19. Hawkins

    Hawkins Member Supporter

    +285
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    You don't have to listen to what Christianity said. You can listen to what Stephen Hawking said. And he said that human better make their run within 100 years.
     
  20. StTruth

    StTruth Well-Known Member

    501
    +196
    Christian
    Single
    The early Christians believed Jesus would come in their lifetimes. Even the Synoptic Gospels made it very clear that Jesus promised in at least five different places that he would return in their lifetimes. It can be seen quite clearly in St John's Gospel that that promise is no longer featured. Serious scholars believe St John was written after all the early Christians who had seen Jesus had died. That explains a verse in St John in which the writer tried to say that many misunderstood what Jesus said and they thought St John would not die but be bodily translated to heaven.

    The Epistles of St Paul which were written even earlier made it clear that St Paul who claims to have been taken up to the Seventh heaven to listen to heavenly things that he couldn't even divulge to human ears actually thought Jesus would return during when many of them were still living. Many Christians misread Thessalonians as if St Paul was addressing them but no, he was addressing the believers in Thessalonica.

    In the second century, some scribes attempted to remove promises by our Lord that he would return during his listeners' lifetime. There is textual evidence of this in some manuscripts.

    But religion is highly resilient and today, the verses where Jesus clearly foretells his early second coming and where St Paul blatantly speaks of the Second Coming as if it would happen while the early Christians were still alive are all read without shame or discomfort. We simply take them to apply to us and our lifetimes, whatever century we may be living in.

    Cheers,

    St Truth
     
Loading...