How Long was Adam in the Garden?

Stephen P · Jun 27, 2020

coffee4u said:
Genesis 2 does not give a second-order, it is focusing in on the garden of Eden and giving more details about that.

Verse 5 is not really the best English translation, but if you look up the Hebrew you will see the plants here are not the general plants of Genesis 1:11 but rather crops and food plants that God planted in the garden for humans. The cattle and such had grasses and trees outside of the garden. Adam was made outside of the garden and now we are told God moved him into the garden then Eve was made inside the garden.
After the crops it mentions the animals, not being created but being brought to Adam to name.
19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. Had, as in previously made.

Heh you mis-sread that!
I said Give me a second to order, not there is a second order
Ive always used Torah (Mechanical) (Whenever you see the RMT:)

Absolute version
GEN 2: 5 all shrub field before exist land all herb field before spring.up given.that not precepitate YHWH Elohiym upon land human without serve at ground.

Englishified version
"GEN 2: 5 RMT: and all the shrubs of the field before existing in the land, and all the herbs of the field before springing up, given that YHWH the Elohiym did not make it precipitate upon the land and it was without a human to serve the ground,"

Stephen P · Jun 27, 2020

Now placed in here:
Genesis-Beings, Beasts and Leviathan

So it is aside from the general context of the LENGTH OF TIME in Eden.
I still think that addressing this will set the periods vs man's interpretation of History and allow at least an order, if not a measurement of time, since Science is the only way we can measure ancient historical time..
Cheers
s

coffee4u · Jun 27, 2020

Stephen P said:
true, The fruit increased knowledge only.
The Wages of Sin is Death but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So sin IS death, but what was Before Sin? Death or no Death?

G1:28 says "Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and subdue it. Have dominion "
That doesn't give us an answer as it could be both ways, living forever and reproducing WILL fill the world VERY FAST.
Reproducing then dying will also fill the world, just slower.
Mind you,
"The global average fertility rate is just below 2.5 children per woman today. Over the last 50 years the global fertility rate has halved."
But that just means that pregnancy/child survival rates are so much better now that families only need to replace themselves.
s.

I already answered that before. Before sin there was no death.
Romans 5:12
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—

You are trying to use logic and natural laws, these don't work. Creation was a miracle, a supernatural event. Now because God is outside of time and can see the start, middle and end of mankind's history he already knew they would not be there to reproduce before he even created them so overpopulation was never on the table.
The whole point of creating man was so that God could have a people unto himself and to do that man had to choose. The garden was simply to give mankind a taste of the New Heavens and New World outlined in revelations. Like all the Old Testament pictures Eden was only an imperfect shadow. The same way they sacrificed a lamb as a foreshadowing of Christ. That first world was never going to last.

Stephen P · Jun 27, 2020

Now placed in here:
Genesis-Beings, Beasts and Leviathan

So it is aside from the general context of the LENGTH OF TIME in Eden.
I still think that addressing this will set the periods vs man's interpretation of History and allow at least an order, if not a measurement of time, since Science is the only way we can measure ancient historical time..
Cheers
s

Stephen P · Jun 27, 2020

coffee4u said:
I already answered that before. Before sin there was no death.
Romans 5:12
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—

You are trying to use logic and natural laws, these don't work. Creation was a miracle, a supernatural event. Now because God is outside of time and can see the start, middle and end of mankind's history he already knew they would not be there to reproduce before he even created them so overpopulation was never on the table.
The whole point of creating man was so that God could have a people unto himself and to do that man had to choose. The garden was simply to give mankind a taste of the New Heavens and New World outlined in revelations. Like all the Old Testament pictures Eden was only an imperfect shadow. The same way they sacrificed a lamb as a foreshadowing of Christ. That first world was never going to last.

So you are saying that God planned Adam to fail so there would not be an overpopulation?
Predes~ No steve .. dont go there........
God had everything unto himself. God wanted something that was "Part of Himself" like our likeness ie Spirit.

The point I'm making Sin = expulsion from Eden = No access to the tree any more = death.
This is the logic you are missing.

If you are crediting users with Creation, then Satan is a user.. (it needed permission to attack Job, and God limited all Satans attacks) but logically, then are you saying that Satan a Creator?

Stephen P · Jun 27, 2020

coffee4u said:
Genesis 2 does not give a second-order, it is focusing in on the garden of Eden and giving more details about that.

Verse 5 is not really the best English translation, but if you look up the Hebrew you will see the plants here are not the general plants of Genesis 1:11 but rather crops and food plants that God planted in the garden for humans. The cattle and such had grasses and trees outside of the garden. Adam was made outside of the garden and now we are told God moved him into the garden then Eve was made inside the garden.
After the crops it mentions the animals, not being created but being brought to Adam to name.
19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. Had, as in previously made.

G1:19 RMT: and Elohiym said, look, I gave to you all of the herbs sowing seed which are upon the face of all the land, and all of the trees which are in him the produce of a tree sowing seed, he will exist for food for you,
Have a look at the two bit posts re going thru ALL of this bit by bit..
Using the Torah Mechanical.

So apples, banannas, etc and Wheat etc.
Bananas aren't really a fruit. ... The yellow thing you peel and eat is, in fact, a fruit because it contains the seeds of the plant. Although since bananas have been commercially grown, the plants are sterile, and the seeds have gradually been reduced to little specs

-57 · Jun 27, 2020

mmksparbud said:
If it isn't needed---why would God have it there and promise to give it back to us?

What dos it mean to have the right to eat from the tree of life?

-57 · Jun 27, 2020

Stephen P said:
Yep. from Noah's 950 years to average of what?
Either the world was spinning faster in those days (ie days were only say, 18 hours - Check Earth : The making of a planet)
OR like some people who live higher up, live longer.

Or man was created with flawless DNA...that due to the fall eventually corrupted all of Adams progeny.

-57 · Jun 27, 2020

coffee4u said:
The fruit itself didn't cause them to die, disobedience did.

If they were in the garden for a great length of time they would have filled the order to 'be fruitful and multiply'

Quite possible, we are not told.

I would have to agree.

-57 · Jun 27, 2020

Stephen P said:
And another view.

GEN 3:22. RMT: and YHWH the Elohiym said, though the human had existed like one of us, knowing function and dysfunction, and now otherwise, he will send his hand and he will take also from the tree of life, and he will eat and he will live to a distant time,
Gen 3:23 RMT: and YHWH the Elohiym sent him from the garden of Eden to serve the ground which from there he was taken,

> God's fix was to cast out Adam, not to destroy the Tree.

GEN3:24 RMT: and he cast out the human, and the keruvs and the blazing one dwelt from the east to the garden of Eden, the sword overturning herself to safeguard the road of the tree of life,

> The Tree was NOT destroyed, but hidden... Why?

If we are going to Heaven, why keep the physical tree?
Heaven already has a River of Life.

So Logically we are going to Earth, And Earth where we need the tree of Life.

Earth is where New Jerusalem lands.

-57 · Jun 27, 2020

Stephen P said:
The point I'm making Sin = expulsion from Eden = No access to the tree any more = death.
This is the logic you are missing.

What that means if there was no fall...and if some of A&E progeny left the garden...far away from the tree...they would die. I'm not really buying that.

mmksparbud · Jun 27, 2020

-57 said:
What dos it mean to have the right to eat from the tree of life?

As sinful beings we do not have the right to eat of the tree of life, it would perpetuate evil, that is why A+E were driven out of the garden. Having now chosen to serve Christ forever, and accepting His cleansing blood as atonement for our sins, we are once again given ..permission to eat of it....having the right means having been given permission. The whole of the New Jerusalem in heaven will be brought down to this earth. Jesus has been building our "city" dwellings in heaven for us to live in during the 1000 years. After the cleansing of the earth from all sin---the city descends, it is about the size of Colorado, but a perfect square and as tall as it is long. It will be the center of God's universe then. We get to build our own "country" dwellings outside the city if we want.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

The tree and River of life are in that city.

mmksparbud · Jun 27, 2020

-57 said:
What that means if there was no fall...and if some of A&E progeny left the garden...far away from the tree...they would die. I'm not really buying that.

There is not one word of A + E having had children in the garden. Adam did not "know" Eve until after the fall. Another reason to believe that they were not in the garden very long. Their first male child was Cain. She could have had many female children before Cain---only the males, in the bible, are actually counted for they were the inheritors and every male was considered to be the hoped for Messiah. Women are only mentioned if they are important to the narrative. Genealogy is from 1st male to first male.

mmksparbud · Jun 27, 2020

-57 said:
Or man was created with flawless DNA...that due to the fall eventually corrupted all of Adams progeny.

God would not have created anything less than perfect. They had no diseases to pass on---that is why they marriied brothers and sisters back then.

mmksparbud · Jun 27, 2020

Stephen P said:
Agreed, and it goes back to paraphrase "what was got corrupted, and will be again."
Rev. 21:1;4 "There will be a new Heaven and a new Earth."
If we are going to Heaven with God why bother with the new Earth?

Rev 22: The River of Life Comes from the Lamb on the Throne / Heaven.
Is that confusing things?
[EDIT]
[Gen2:10 has RMT: and a river was going out from Eden"
So for heaven AND Earth, there is a Tree and a River.]

A few points to support this.
Going back to What Was Will be again, I feel that we were always meant to be EARTHLY, not HEAVENLY beings.
"That heaven is a place where God resides.
Note: The Saints under God's altar are in Heaven, so, yes there is some "Human storage" in Heaven at the moment. Described in Revelation 11:12 “they went to Heaven, wrapped in a cloud..”"
I believe that we will be back on Earth, where we belonged with a New Resurrected body (a real one).
Because we were designed to be the caretakers of Earth, not of Heaven. God has all those multi eyed beasts, wheeled lion and eagle things to do all that Spiritual stuff.
This is physical, not Spiritual, If we were designed for Heaven we cannot have a physical body.
To support this, Jesus was Physically resurrected, not suddenly appearing as a ghost/spirit, (walking thru walls is only the same Solid-to-Liquid element manipulation as the Liquid-to-Solid walking on water?) and The Bible deliberately points that out with the Thomas incident.

Right. We were, from the beginning, created to be earthly humans. The only time we will live in heaven is during the 1000 years---but then, in God's timing---that is only for one day!
Though Adam and Eve lived to over 900 years---not one of them, or their children, lived to 1000---which is one day---in the day that you eat of it you will die---they did. God just generously6 counted their days according to His timing!

We will have a glorified body---just like the body of Jesus for He retains His humanity. We do not know the qualities of those bodies---Jesus suddenly appeared and disappeared at will---as when He vanished before the disciples after breaking bread on the road to Emmaus, and when He suddenly appeared in the locked room with the disciples.

-57 · Jun 27, 2020

mmksparbud said:
There is not one word of A + E having had children in the garden. Adam did not "know" Eve until after the fall. Another reason to believe that they were not in the garden very long. Their first male child was Cain. She could have had many female children before Cain---only the males, in the bible, are actually counted for they were the inheritors and every male was considered to be the hoped for Messiah. Women are only mentioned if they are important to the narrative. Genealogy is from 1st male to first male.

I said "if". A scenario where mankind didn't fall.

-57 · Jun 27, 2020

mmksparbud said:
Though Adam and Eve lived to over 900 years---not one of them, or their children, lived to 1000---which is one day---in the day that you eat of it you will die---they did. God just generously6 counted their days according to His timing!

We will have a

I think you took that out of context.

mmksparbud · Jun 27, 2020

-57 said:
I said "if". A scenario where mankind didn't fall.

If they did not fall, then they would have continued to have access to the tree of Life. All future children would have been born sinless and they would have populated the whole earth. They would have always remained sinless and without death. Even in the New Earth, we will all come together once a week and once a month, so access to the tree would and will be no problem.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

mmksparbud · Jun 27, 2020

-57 said:
I think you took that out of context.

Perhaps---however, it certainly does add up---besides, in the original Hebrew, the word for day is different in the Gen 1 and in the Gen 2 accounts.

5 and~he~will~CALL.OUT(V) (וַיִּקְרָא / wai'yiq'ra) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) to~LIGHT (לָאוֹר / la'or) DAY (יוֹם / yom) and~to~DARKNESS (וְלַחֹשֶׁךְ / wê'la'hho'shekh) he~did~CALL.OUT(V) (קָרָא / qa'ra) NIGHT (לָיְלָה / lai'lah) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) EVENING (עֶרֶב / e'rev) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) MORNING (בֹקֶר / vo'qer) DAY (יוֹם / yom) UNIT (אֶחָד / e'hhad)
RMT: and Elohiym called out to the light, day, and to the darkness he called out, night, and evening existed and morning existed, a day unit,
17 and~from~TREE (וּמֵעֵץ / u'mey'eyts) the~DISCERNMENT (הַדַּעַת / ha'da'at) FUNCTIONAL (טוֹב / tov) and~DYSFUNCTIONAL (וָרָע / wa'ra) NOT (לֹא / lo) you(ms)~will~EAT(V) (תֹאכַל / to'khal) FROM~him (מִמֶּנּוּ / mi'me'nu) GIVEN.THAT (כִּי / ki) in~DAY (בְּיוֹם / bê'yom) you(ms)~>~EAT(V) (אֲכָלְךָ / a'khal'kha) FROM~him (מִמֶּנּוּ / mi'me'nu) >~DIE(V) (מוֹת / mot) you(ms)~will~DIE(V) (תָּמוּת / ta'mut)

Yom, when used with a number---day one and so forth---is always a dark and light period of 24 hours.

Beyom is translated to eon, or unspecified period of time/ age.

coffee4u · Jun 27, 2020

Stephen P said:
So you are saying that God planned Adam to fail so there would not be an overpopulation?
Predes~ No steve .. dont go there........
God had everything unto himself. God wanted something that was "Part of Himself" like our likeness ie Spirit.

The point I'm making Sin = expulsion from Eden = No access to the tree any more = death.
This is the logic you are missing.

If you are crediting users with Creation, then Satan is a user.. (it needed permission to attack Job, and God limited all Satans attacks) but logically, then are you saying that Satan a Creator?

Again you are misrepresenting things.
God didn't plan for Adam to fall; he saw him fall, he knew he would fall, that if he gave him free will that there was no way to stop him from falling.
Free will = falling
No free will = robotic minions.
God wanted people to choose of their own free will.

Sin = death. Death is why they were expelled.

I've never credited creation to anyone but God, not sure where you got that idea from.

Honestly, I don't read most of your posts. I am sorry but you go on confusing rabbit holes that I do not see any sense in.

How Long was Adam in the Garden?

What have you?

I have no ability to reason.

I have no knowledge of the Bible.

I have no credibility.

I have no idea.

I have irrefutable evidence. (specify)

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