How Long is an Hour?

[Luke17:37]

Just to be clear, I'm not rejecting anything. The entire chapter of Revelation 20 fits perfectly with all the other verses I've shown you, including 1 Corinthians 15. The key to making it all fit, is understanding the resurrections.

I call it rejection and it seems like to you, it's all allegory.

 

[LastSeven]

God is just saying that all will be resurrected. It doesn't mean they are resurrected at the same time. There can be a thousand years or so between the resurrection of the righteous and the resurrection of the rest. There's nothing in those verses precluding that.

Actually, if you'll look at these two verses again, you'll see that they refer to a single resurrection event.

John 5:28-29
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Notice it says "the hour". That's the hour that "all" that are in the graves will hear his voice.

Acts 24:15
having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

And in Acts 24:15 it says there will be "a" resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. Not two resurrections. A resurrection.

Besides, you said so yourself. If the righteous die during the thousand years they will be resurrected, so why are you now changing your mind?

I don't understand how you can take two verses and cling to your one view of them and summarily reject an entire chapter (Revelation 20) which says Jesus has a thousand year reign on this earth.

Let's at least try to establish this one simple thing. Revelation 20 does not say that Jesus will reign on earth.

If I'm wrong, then please quote the scripture in your response and highlight the part where it says "on earth". If you can do that, then I'll concede that point. If you can't, then please stop making this claim. It only muddies the waters.

 

[LastSeven]

I call it rejection and it seems like to you, it's all allegory.

No, it's not all allegory, but if you'll humour me I can walk you through it and you'll see how I can make all the pieces fit together perfectly.

 

[Luke17:37]

Actually, if you'll look at these two verses again, you'll see that they refer to a single resurrection event.

John 5:28-29
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Notice it says "the hour". That's the hour that "all" that are in the graves will hear his voice.

Acts 24:15
having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

And in Acts 24:15 it says there will be "a" resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. Not two resurrections. A resurrection.

Besides, you said so yourself. If the righteous die during the thousand years they will be resurrected, so why are you now changing your mind?


Let's at least try to establish this one simple thing. Revelation 20 does not say that Jesus will reign on earth.

If I'm wrong, then please quote the scripture in your response and highlight the part where it says "on earth". If you can do that, then I'll concede that point. If you can't, then please stop making this claim. It only muddies the waters.

Revelation 20:6-8
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.

Please ask yourself why you are so intent on not believing in a literal thousand year reign of Jesus on the earth. It is going to be an awesome time. I myself am looking forward to it. I want to pet the animals that now run away from me or are dangerous to me (animals I am presently allergic to), to enjoy the visible presence and peace of Jesus, to swim in the healing waters (Ezekiel 47)--but not in that order.

 

[Luke17:37]

No, it's not all allegory, but if you'll humour me I can walk you through it and you'll see how I can make all the pieces fit together perfectly.

Na, that's okay, you and I are just not going to agree. We've already sent dozens of messages back and forth. I have other things to do.

 

[LastSeven]

Revelation 20:6-8
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.

Please ask yourself why you are so intent on not believing in a literal thousand year reign of Jesus on the earth. It is going to be an awesome time. I myself am looking forward to it. I want to pet the animals that now run away from me or are dangerous to me (animals I am presently allergic to), to enjoy the visible presence and peace of Jesus, to swim in the healing waters (Ezekiel 47)--but not in that order.

Wishing for Jesus to reign on earth with us is not going to make it happen. I also look forward to making my first million one day but that doesn't mean it's going to happen. Of course it would be awesome to see Jesus ruling the earth rather than Obama or Putin, but we have to go with God's plan, not our plan.

I am intent on not believing in a literal thousand year reign on earth because the Bible says it's not going to happen. I have to go with what the Bible says, not with what my parents and my friends say. All that stuff you look forward to however, will happen on the new earth when God will live among us, so we can both look forward to that.

Remember how Jesus chastised the Jews for not recognizing his kingship for what it is? They too were expecting a king to lead them into battle and sit on a throne in Jerusalem, but Jesus' kingship was and still is spiritual. He even said "My kingdom is not of this world". It doesn't get much clearer than that. So don't make the same mistake the Jews made by failing to recognize God's plan and the type of power Jesus rules with.

Now as for ruling on earth, as you can see from the verses you quoted above, it does not say that Jesus rules on earth during the thousand years. I see that you highlighted the word earth there but obviously that is explaining where the nations are. It does not describe where Jesus rules. Agreed?

 

[LastSeven]

Na, that's okay, you and I are just not going to agree. We've already sent dozens of messages back and forth. I have other things to do.

But what if you're wrong. Wouldn't you like to know that? I know that if I'm wrong, I would definitely want to know that.

We have to be humble enough to be willing to test all our beliefs against scripture and be willing to let scripture lead us, rather than lead the scripture. Personally I welcome these types of debates because every one of them brings me closer to the truth by showing me new things I hadn't noticed before.

I don't care about being "right" so that I can say "you're wrong". I would gladly be wrong if it means I get closer to the truth. I'm certainly not so arrogant that I think I have nothing to learn.

 

[Luke17:37]

Wishing for Jesus to reign on earth with us is not going to make it happen. I also look forward to making my first million one day but that doesn't mean it's going to happen. Of course it would be awesome to see Jesus ruling the earth rather than Obama or Putin, but we have to go with God's plan, not our plan.

I am intent on not believing in a literal thousand year reign on earth because the Bible says it's not going to happen. I have to go with what the Bible says, not with what my parents and my friends say. All that stuff you look forward to however, will happen on the new earth when God will live among us, so we can both look forward to that.

Remember how Jesus chastised the Jews for not recognizing his kingship for what it is? They too were expecting a king to lead them into battle and sit on a throne in Jerusalem, but Jesus' kingship was and still is spiritual. He even said "My kingdom is not of this world". It doesn't get much clearer than that. So don't make the same mistake the Jews made by failing to recognize God's plan and the type of power Jesus rules with.

Now as for ruling on earth, as you can see from the verses you quoted above, it does not say that Jesus rules on earth during the thousand years. I see that you highlighted the word earth there but obviously that is explaining where the nations are. It does not describe where Jesus rules. Agreed?

Of course I don't agree. And I believe I'll go through much suffering before I am raised to see those days. Jesus' kingdom is spiritual but it's physical, too. Let's just stop talking. There's no point. Please don't respond.

 

[pgp_protector]

33093474372000 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom

 

[parousia70]

If you want to know what a "prophetic" HOUR is.. All you have to do is divide 1,000 years by 24 hours (one day. The answer is 41.6, or forty one and a half years.

Any other questions ?!

Yes.
So when John said this:
(1 John 2:18) "Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

Your claim is that John meant:
"Little children, it is the last 41.6 years; and as you have heard that Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last 41.6 years.

Do I have that correct?

 

[BABerean2]

I actually believe Revelation 20.

Haven't you read Revelation 19:21 and Zechariah 14:12-15? The wicked are killed by Jesus when He returns (Isaiah 26:21)... especially those gathered in His land (Isaiah 27:12). This is a form of judgment, even though it isn't the final judgment (the Great White Throne Judgment) which culminates in the wicked being thrown into the Lake of Fire.

I also believe Revelation 20.

The problem is that if our interpretation of Revelation 11:15-18 conflicts with Revelation chapter 20, then our interpretation cannot be correct.

We cannot say that we believe one and not the other, nor can we ignore one and focus on the other...
.

 

[LastSeven]

Of course I don't agree. And I believe I'll go through much suffering before I am raised to see those days. Jesus' kingdom is spiritual but it's physical, too. Let's just stop talking. There's no point. Please don't respond.

No, of course you don't agree. The power of the mind never ceases to amaze me. You don't see the words, but yet you believe they exist. I don't think that's what Jesus was talking about when he said "blessed are those...".

 

[Luke17:37]

I also believe Revelation 20.

The problem is that if our interpretation of Revelation 11:15-18 conflicts with Revelation chapter 20, then our interpretation cannot be correct.

We cannot say that we believe one and not the other, nor can we ignore one and focus on the other...
.

My interpretation doesn't have a problem with either passage.
I believe Jesus returns at the seventh trumpet/7th bowl, kills the armies gathered against Him, raises the dead in Christ and gathers the living in Christ. He reigns with the saints for a thousand years, basically removing the curse (except death), and after the final rebellion He brings about the second resurrection, the white throne judgment, and subsequently the casting of those outside of Christ into the Lake of Fire.

 

[BABerean2]

33093474372000 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom

Producing equal time intervals for those within the same inertial frame of reference.

Producing significantly different elapsed times otherwise, if one is at a velocity over 90% C.
.

 

[Luke17:37]

No, of course you don't agree. The power of the mind never ceases to amaze me. You don't see the words, but yet you believe they exist. I don't think that's what Jesus was talking about when he said "blessed are those...".

Condescension isn't fitting in the body of Christ.

 

[pgp_protector]

Producing equal time intervals for those within the same inertial frame of reference.

Producing significantly different elapsed times otherwise, if one is at a velocity over 90% C.
.

For the one traveling at 90% C or above, an hour will still be
33093474372000 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom
(If that caesium 133 atom is also traveling with them at the same speed)

 

[BABerean2]

basically removing the curse (except death)

Death is part of the curse.
.

 

[BABerean2]

For the one traveling at 90% C or above, an hour will still be
33093474372000 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom
(If that caesium 133 atom is also traveling with them at the same speed)

Most certainly correct in that inertial system.

But as Einstein's "Twin Paradox" reveals, not the same interval as those of a differing velocity.

Old but good...

 

[Luke17:37]

Death is part of the curse.
.

Absolutely. But things He removes during the thousand years includes pain in childbirth, animals' fear of men, animals' carnivorous diets. People are capable of living long lives again (dying at 100 is considered a curse). He also removes the training for war and heals the seas and the rest of the earth. People have the opportunity to enjoy a visible relationship with God and peace with each other (no more training for war). While humans would still have a sin nature, during those thousand years Satan won't be permitted to attempt to deceive them (only afterwards).

See Psalms 2, Psalms 72, Isaiah 2, Isaiah 11, Isaiah 65, Ezekiel 47, Ezekiel 48, Zechariah 14.

Death is completely gone only by Revelation chapter 21, when there's the new heavens and the new earth (the first heavens and the first earth having passed away) and the enemies of God are in the Lake of Fire. There is no more sea, and in the resurrection there's no more marriage either (thus, no childbirth) (Matthew 22:23-33).

 

[LastSeven]

Condescension isn't fitting in the body of Christ.

I'm sorry but you're driving me to the edge.

You say your interpretation fits with scripture but you insert words where they don't exists, you can't explain Acts 3:21, nor do you accept 1 Corinthians 15 as it is written, or the fact that we're all resurrected on the last day. Perhaps it's your lack of humility that isn't fitting in the body of Christ, because a humble person wouldn't put up their hand in the face of contradicting arguments but rather try to understand them to make sure she's not off track.