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Um.. that verse says that Jesus reigns. The words "physical" and "bodily" you're putting those in from your own imagination. You guys really have to stop doing that.
That's a good start but I recommend you look up "progressive parallelism" and how it's used in Revelation. You'll find that chapter 20 is actually a summary of the preceding chapters.
It doesn't matter what it means? Really?Doesn't matter what
It doesn’t matter what I think it means, it doesn’t say “he stays in heaven until the new earth”.
That’s how you interpret it. Remember your it doesn’t say He returns before the millennium argument.
Listen. I never said he doesn't return to earth. I said he doesn't return to earth to reign for 1000 years.Come on, that's the context.
Do you not believe in a bodily return of Jesus Christ? If so, you're called a scoffer by 2 Peter 3:3-9.
Context? Really?That is the clear context of the passage.
sigh. It doesn't say that.No, He's already been there for a thousand years in Revelation 20:9.
It doesn't matter what it means? Really?
It says he stays in heaven until the time of the restoration of all things. So what is the restoration of all things if not the restoration of creation?
Listen. I never said he doesn't return to earth. I said he doesn't return to earth to reign for 1000 years.
Clearly, when he comes, we are resurrected, and he hands over the kingdom to God the father. This is what it says in 1 Corinthians 15. If you can't see that, then you don't want to see that. There is no interpretation required. No context required. No assumptions required. It just says it plain as day.
Context? Really?
You can use context to discern meaning, not insert it. There's a big difference. You are inserting words and you know it. You just think it makes sense to do so because you're convinced he reigns on earth. I know why you do it. I just wish you'd admit that you're doing it.
You can bring out scriptures from Psalms and Isaiah and Zechariah and wherever else you can find them that talk about paradise on earth, and you say it sounds like the thousand years for whatever reason, but since they don't specifically say they are referencing the thousand year reign you can't use such nebulous evidence to contradict clear scripture such as Acts 3:21. Acts 3:21 clearly tells us when Jesus returns to earth and it's not at the start of the thousand years.
You must always interpret less clear scripture in light of more clear scripture, and if scripture "A" says "1 + 2 = 3" then you can't say "well actually I think it means 4 because scripture "B" says 4 is the sum of two other numbers and scripture "C" mentions 1 and 2 together in the same verse and it seems to make sense to me so therefore 1 + 2 = 4".
You could do that if there was nothing contradictory in scripture (although even then you'd have to include a disclaimer) but in this case there clearly is.
Don't you know that both the righteous and the wicked are resurrected together?It's plain as day that there's a thousand years between the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the resurrection of the rest of the dead. You'd rather reject a whole chapter because of your assumption that the handing over of the kingdom to full removal of the curse (death) is immediate.
I'm sorry that you feel it's a waste of time.It looks like we're wasting each other's time. There's no point in continuing back and forth. What you think is "proof" I don't and what I think is clear, you call allegory. Good day.
Not according to Revelation chapter 20.
Actually, even Revelation 20, although it says there are two resurrections, it doesn't give us any information about the second resurrection. Revelation 20 says "the rest of the dead", regarding the second resurrection, but that does not require that the righteous can't be resurrected along with the rest of the dead.
The first resurrection is for the righteous, and the righteous only. I think we can agree on that.
But the Bible talks about a resurrection that includes both the righteous and the wicked. By process of elimination we know that this must be the second resurrection.
Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
John 5:28-29
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Acts 24:15
having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
(This is present tense at the time of the 7th trumpet.)
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
One group rewarded and another group destroyed at the time of the judgment of the dead.
.
o.k. so that gives us a starting point. Now let's put the rest of the pieces together.Yes, of course, if any righteous die in the thousand years, they will be included in the second resurrection. But the entire Church of the complete history up until Jesus return will be raised in the first resurrection, when Jesus comes.
Actually, even Revelation 20, although it says there are two resurrections, it doesn't give us any information about the second resurrection. Revelation 20 says "the rest of the dead", regarding the second resurrection, but that does not require that the righteous can't be resurrected along with the rest of the dead.
The first resurrection is for the righteous, and the righteous only. I think we can agree on that.
But the Bible talks about a resurrection that includes both the righteous and the wicked. By process of elimination we know that this must be the second resurrection.
Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
John 5:28-29
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Acts 24:15
having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
It's plain as day that there's a thousand years between the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the resurrection of the rest of the dead. You'd rather reject a whole chapter because of your assumption that the handing over of the kingdom to full removal of the curse (death) is immediate.
o.k. so that gives us a starting point. Now let's put the rest of the pieces together.
Daniel 12
As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”
Notice that Daniel is told he will rest and not rise until the end of days.
Now, do you think this resurrection he's been promised is at the start of the thousand years, or at the end?
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