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there are numerous ways to date things; c-14 dating is only one of them.
so, no, neanderthals never saw the tower of babel...if it really existed.
Well it has been an interesting discussion......not much on my original question....but still interesting.
I have a question for those who propose evolution over 100,000's of years....one posed a while ago but no satisfactory answer given.
If man evolved.....why do we not see a variety of living species of the evolution of man. If evolution from a tadpole to a prince were true.....there should be living evidence of these evolved species.....somewhere.
Where are these living species.....how is it possible, that in all the earth....there is no living connection between the tadpole....ape ...man?
Man cannot breed with an ape.....so for a start....where is the living connection.
Right here...evolution falls apart.....they must rely on fossils for evidence.
Thanks for your time.
Why cant we have both?
___ my Original question to you_____
No true scientist would claim evolution as a fact. We do in fact say that the evidence seems to point more strongly to evolution than the bibles 7 days creation story. All the bible says is that God created things. It does not offer any description of the mechanism used. Why does it have to be a wave of his hand?
Let me ask you this.
Why must the earth been created in 7 days?
Why are you so afraid of evolution?
Can you explain rock strata that are much older than 10,000 years old? Only, for simplicity sake, look at sedimentary rock, the Deposition rates alone suggest a longer time frame then 7 days. I didnt even bring up Metamorphic Rock. How long was a day?
Why cant we have both evolution and the bible? We have math books and the bible? Or does the bible teach math too, and if so at what grade level?
Why cant we have both evolution and the bible? We have math books and the bible? Or does the bible teach math too, and if so at what grade level?
The apparent evolving of man from primates has nothing to do with maths.
Thats a common mistake made by darwinists when there faith is called into question.Next you will be telling me the computer im typing on is a result of science so therefore my opposition to darwinism is unscientific.Non sequitur.
Hello,firstly ill reemphasise that im not a YEC.That still fits in with the genesis account.
Secondly evolution does indeed have some truth to it.Things do evolve,theres variation and adaptation.
Im not afraid of evolution,my problem is with the extent of it that
people claim.
If you look up what equivocation means that is used extensively by darwinists.
The danger here in my eyes that Gods account given to moses is being called lies.Someone here has got it very very wrong.Or been decieved.
But the bible says nothing about a mechanism, why do we need a wave of the hand said in a very low voice.
Ok,Yes, it does speak about the mechanics. In the Hebrew text, not the English translations we all commonly find.
Genesis 2:7
"Then the LORD God formed man of dust
from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils
the breath of life; and man became a living being."
God would have said he took a chimp, blessed him, and transformed him into a man. That is what we would read in the Bible if the evolution model that evolutionists cling to was used by God. But, God's Word does not do that.
God could have easily have conveyed the concept to fit the evolutionist's paradigm. But he makes it clear that it was not the way he used in bringing man into being. He shows the evolutionist's that he could have brought man into being by means of evolution. He does so in the following passage.
Genesis 3:14
"The LORD God said to the serpent,
"Because you have done this,
Cursed are you more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you will go,
And dust you will eat
All the days of your life."
God took this creature with legs (which was created to be the most crafty by nature - quick and subtle) and instantly transformed the biological function of the serpent into a creature that now crawled on his belly. This notion Creationists often times hear from Evolutionists, that God could not have conveyed to ancient men the concept of transforming a chimp into a man, is patently false.
Now... more mechanics.
What did the Lord breath into the nostrils of the body that He had formed and molded [Hebrew = yatsar] from the dust/elements of the earth?
That formed body had flesh and bones, but was lifeless as it lay there. No soul was yet in that body. It was simply a biological vehicle that did not yet have its engine turned on. The driver (the human soul) of that biological vehicle was yet to enter and have God turn on the ignition.
Adam's soul? Where did that soul come from?
In Genesis 2:7, the Hebrew says the the Lord took existing material, material that was already created, and it says God yatsar ... molded and formed it from elements the Lord had extracted from the dirt. The Lord as a potter made it into the form of the first human body. Yet, it was yet a lifeless body.
If we look back to Genesis 1:27, we find different Hebrew words being used for the creation of man. Man that was created in the image of God. Image = the SOUL.
The human body is not the man. The soul is. The body is only the means for the soul to connect to the created life within the sphere of what we commonly refer to as. "time and space." God lives outside of the realm of time and space in an uncreated (eternal) sphere.
Lets look at Genesis 1:27 in the Hebrew.
"So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them."
We do not see God 'forming' man here. The word for molding and forming, yatsar is not used in the Hebrew in 1:27. Instead, we see a Hebrew word, bara. "Bara" can have a unique meaning that can only be manifested when spoken of in direct reference to God.
The Hebrew word "Bara." Its the same word used when speaking in reference to God creating the Heavens and Earth. IN THE BEGINNING. God, and only God can create something 'out from nothing.' Man's soul was created 'out from nothing.' His body? Was formed and molded out from what had already been created in the material world, 'from the elements of the dirt.'
In Genesis 1:27 we can not see man. It says he was created. Its says that God saw, not us. In contrast. In Genesis 2:7, we are placed in a scene where we can see the body that had been formed and molded by God.
In Genesis 1:27, God created the male and female souls, out from nothing. The soul has never ending life. The soul is invisible to the human eye. The soul is immaterial substance that God created in His image. Like God is invisible and immaterial, having Eternal life.
So, God first created man - the human soul (Genesis 1:27).
Then God provided a home for that soul, so it can become a living soul while being placed into the spheres of time and space. That home was the material human body.
Now? If God wanted to say we came from a chimp? He could have!
It would have been easy.
A reversed example of such a transformation is recorded in the Bible. Where a man is transformed into a lower state, that of an animal.
Daniel 4:30-33
"The king reflected and said, 'Is this not Babylon
the great, which I myself have built as a royal
residence by the might of my power and for the
glory of my majesty?'
"While the word was in the king's mouth, a voice
came from heaven, saying, 'King Nebuchadnezzar,
to you it is declared: sovereignty has been removed
from you, and you will be driven away from mankind,
and your dwelling place will be with the beasts of
the field. You will be given grass to eat like cattle,
and seven periods of time will pass over you until
you recognize that the Most High is ruler over the
realm of mankind and bestows it on
whomever He wishes.'
"Immediately the word concerning Nebuchadnezzar
was fulfilled; and he was driven away from mankind
and began eating grass like cattle, and his body was
drenched with the dew of heaven until his hair had grown
like eagles' feathers and his nails like birds' claws."
The notion that we can not see evolution mentioned in the Bible was because man was too primitive to grasp the concept? As we can read right there, in Daniel? Is a big lie. God could have shown how some good chimp was blessed and transformed into the first man!
God could have very easily taken some good chimp and caused just the opposite that He had to King Nebuchadnezzar. That way, men reading the Bible would have easily accepted a notion of evolutionary change. A notion which later generations with its scientific understanding could explain to men how God did it.
Yet? What the Bible does state is that man having evolved from a chimp is a lie. Worse yet. That the Bible is a lie. Your choice!
In Christ, GeneZ
.
Ok,
I see one data set here, all from a single source. I am ok with this.
Do have any experimental evidence to support this and/or compliment this data set? If you have them are they from different labs around the world by people that are not Christian? I asked this because in science there needs to be neutral scientist or even scientists that want to prove you wrong coming up with similar conclusions.
How is different to Greek, American Indian’s, or aborigine’s claims? And do you have other evidence than the one provided that supports your claim over their’s.
If possible, can you give me 3 or more pieces of evidence that could help me defend your cause?
thanks Gee.
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.If possible, can you give me 3 or more pieces of evidence that could help me defend your cause?
We will never see someone saved by irrefutable scientific data if their hearts are set against God to begin with. In the world of what must be accepted by faith there is nothing that can not be in some way refuted. That is why God is only pleased by faith. Because faith reveals that God personally has gotten through to that soul. Not some data to make someone turn to God.
If a scientist finds data that turns him to God? Its not the data that did it. It was God Himself. If God can reach a scientist with Himself? That scientist will keep on seeking until he finds how the data lines up with God's Word. For, if God has reached his soul? The scientist will know that God can not lie.
John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me
draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day."
No so called irrefutable data will produce faith. God produces the faith needed to see that the Word of God must be true. That if the Word as we know it appears to be in contradiction with reality, it would mean its back to the drawing board to discover what was lost in translation. It does not mean that the Word is a distortion of reality.
There is no irrefutable data when what is to be believed requires deduction and insight. To have a correct deduction concerning God, one which leads to insight; requires that God enable our souls which are in themselves blind without his grace.
John 6:65
"He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one
can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
John 3:18
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever
does not believe stands condemned already because
he has not believed in the name of
God's one and only Son."
What does "condemned already" mean? It means that the one who does not believe is not believing in Christ because he was never given irrefutable evidence. It means that when the Father drew him, this person rejected the invisible pull by God in his mind to knowing God, which was given by God Himself.
The person is condemned already because in his soul he was was arrogant before God. While being drawn he refused to want to know God as he is. He is not condemned after he refuses to believe in Christ. His unbelief is a sign of his having been already condemned. He rejected the drawing of God.
Romans 1:18-20
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven
against all the godlessness and wickedness of men
who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what
may be known about God is plain to them, because God
has made it plain to them. For since the creation of
the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power
and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that
men are without excuse.
At bare minimum... Men who do accept the initial drawing phase of God, are left walking away with knowing by the very nature of how the creation exists that there has to be an Intelligent Designer behind it all.
For those rejecting God's drawing? There is no winning them over with the imaginary elusive "irrefutable data." It does not exist.
Men can always find some area to cause doubt as to secure themselves a hiding place from the true God. It may even be in the form of clinging to false gods .. American Indians, Aborigines, etc. Or, some human discipline that demands God be kept out of their worldview.
this is all very nice scripture and all....
but....
Its not in any shape way or form scientifically objective evidence to support the claims warranted here by the "anti-darwinists". heh. Not that darwinist is an accurate term. =P
Please, check that link. It shows how the Bible was always harmonizing information in regards to the prehistoric ages with the fact that the planet earth itself was not created only thousands of years ago. But, that the earth had its surface life replaced with a new creation thousands of years ago.
The fossil records are in accord with what the Bible states. This reality has been realized by those who study Scripture on a level that requires as strong a discipline as the one's scientist follow. The greatest Bible scholars use interpretative tools that must abide by laws and rules that equal that of science when its at its best. Some refer to it as the science of Biblical interpretation. Not what you'll find in the typical church these days. The dedicated are always a minority count.
In Christ, GeneZ
no; the fossil record and the Bible DO NOT say the same thing.
The Bible says the earth was created 6000 years ago.
The fossil record says the Earth was created more like a couple billion years ago.
The two DO NOT say the same thing.
well, people are going to translate and interpret it a billion different ways.
no two people on this planet interpret the Bible identically, meaning, there is no one true rtanslation/interpretation, because EVERYONE has a different one.
This is what makes life unique, varied and different, which is a good thing.
I interpret the Bible as metaphorical; its not a true narrative historical account, or science book, or history lesson. Its a story with a certainmeaning and message behind it, but, how you determine that message is all up to the individual.
But, lets stick with the science and the facts.
Modern man, modern homo sapiens, have been around for about 150,000 years. The site with the oldest homo sapien remains date to around 160,000 years ago.
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