How long has man been created.

[Dark_Lite]

Humans tend to populate areas quickly.100,000 years is an extremely long time.Even a quick look at how the US population has exploded in a few hundred years would cast doubt on your claim.My assertion is that from 8 people ,4400 years ago we get the earths population and when you can look at how fast man can spread,the 100 000 years theory becomes very hard to believe.

Erectus is made up of various fossil finds,however once again when you look at each fossil find critically then holes begin to appear.1.4 million years huh.Fossil finds can be explained as human or animal,not some sort of strange mixture.1.4 million years.....

Human population has only really gone up *extremely* fast in the past century or two (Including doubling itself in about 50 years, starting around 1950). For most of human history, it grew at a fairly steady rate. My main guess as to why the human population used to grow at a more steady rate was because of the higher mortality rates. There wasn't as much medicine available, life expectancy was lower, and not as many people even lived past birth. With the advent of modern medicine we are able to stop so many conditions from being life-threatening. Thus, population explosion.

 

[fwwid]

He knows the facts. Its an inconvenient truth that they all know they must distance themselves from now. To do so, they try and make you sound like you are the one who in misinformed. Its all bluff, smoke and mirrors, and posturing. Its easy to do. All they need to do is to treat everyone like they have an IQ of 80. That their knowledge is too advanced for our simple minds. Some must figure that the sort of offense should stun us. But, they have no idea that we have no need to see through them. For what they do is self evident.

Actually, we both know the facts. Whether we're open to them or not is the true question. Are you not precisely trying to describe what you are attempting to do? No claim has been made on my part that you have a simple mind. Trying to play victim is an act of desperation and a common characteristic of Antisocial personality disorder.

Their glory days of dealing with other children in the school yard are over. But, they cling to their old ways of trying to come out on top as a way of life.

Genez, I know this is hard for you to believe but I've never viewed this as a competition or a "schoolyard beating." The fact is that you so vehemently deny the evidence supporting evolution and natural selection leads me to believe that you're scared or something; that if man evolved then this would somehow make God not exist or less powerful - this is not the case.

I just find it interesting and excessively convenient that evolution is your vice, naturally, as it is such a HUGE principle that surely the bible would talk about it if it were true right? With so much emotion wrapped up in your arguments, I question if you are looking into this miracle objectively - and rationally. As I've said, truth is not found exclusively in the bible, nor is the principle of the creation vital to our salvation. Why would it be necessary to describe to man every detail of the creation in scripture? What truly happens to us during and after this life is far more important then the underlying principles on how we got here.

 

[GenemZ]

Go read the speciation article on wikipedia article if you want specific examples. The fossil record has plenty of transitional fossils--horses in particular if I remember correctly.

There are experiments that show how RNA could have arisen from non-life. These are also supported by the Miller-Urey experiments.

The examples were covered earlier in the thread. The reason I told you the entirety of modern biology is because so much of it is built upon the theory of evolution. It's all connected.

That reminds me of the time I walked by a register at a store just to stop for a moments rest. The clerk looked at me and said.."That will be nineteen dollars and fifty cents." I asked him, "what for?" He told me it will be a dollar and thirty five cents to tell me.


I thought so. Thanks for your non-answer.



.

 

[johnd]

Fine.

Ok, so in two posts, we have:

• An apparent acceptance of the omphalos hypothesis.
• A regrouping of something that already exists? Seriously? THAT is what you came up with against the RNA experiment? The entirety of the physical universe is "regrouping what already exists."
• A complete misunderstanding of speciation. Butterflies -> Elephants? Um... right.
• "Oh, it's a bird!" Because when evidence stares you in the face, it's easier to just ignore it.
• Godwin's Law.
• Some random side comment about abiogenesis that has nothing to do with anything.
• Some accusation about slamming the Bible which derives from the inability to decouple literalism and truth.

So, the remaining cogent arguments would be:

• Fossilization argument.

Alrighty. Fossilization happens when there is sediment covering the organism, as well as a host of other conditions. Permineralization is a type where it must be covered by sediment quickly. It does not necessarily have to form quickly however. Then there's all the other types of fossilization.

And even if it did have to form quickly, that does not necessitate a young earth, given the remaining 82 billion pieces of evidence for an old universe.

This is why I don't usually bother digging up links, because of weird "arguments" like the ones presented in your post. This is, in general, how I see the content of your previous post:

----------Discussion--------->
          \
           \  your post
            \
             V

 

[An Arch Angel]

What I have always wondered about evolution is if God started it that way, or if it just happened randomly? Some evolutionists would answer the former and others would answer the latter. In fact, not all evolutionists believe the same way.

Originally evolution explained that species evolved to make themselves better, now after reading these posts I have heard one say that it is not all about upward improvement, or whatever the term was. Now its suddenly about whatever is best at the time so they may actually go backwards. So, if that is the case why dont we have birds changing back to dinosaurs in some areas, oh wait the dinosaurs were destroyed in a mass extinction, oh wait no actually they all changed to birds, but we do have alligators, hmmmm....so confusing!!!!!!!!

They love to point out that science makes the silly idea of creation absurd. But Moses, who was chosen by God, writes it in the Bible. Obviously he has some intelligence, so why wouldnt God just tell him about evolution? Did he think Moses would have a stroke and die? Did God think the Jewish people would all fall into fetal positions because God told them this? Or did Moses write what he wanted without Gods hand in it? What is the answer?

Nice post.

Just one minor point, do not confuse science with scientist.

Science is only a tool, like the bible. It is the scientist that makes claims, not science. This is sort of the same as people (priest/pastor)making claims about what the bible means.

 

[An Arch Angel]

That's non answer. Are you comparing what has been categorized as prehistoric species with what is currently inhabiting the earth? Sounds like that is what you might be getting at.

One more time: Here is what you said...




So far, you gave a non-answer.

What references do you have to actually show that a species has become a new species? That was what you were claiming. Right?

I asked for evidence, and all I got was...



That is not an answer at all. There is nothing specific in what you said.

It was not a non-answer at all.

The answer he gave was what we know about chemistry, biology, and physics. These disciplines seem to suggest that the universe is operating in a predictable (probable) manor, remember, god is hiding nothing from us.

Have you heard of “punctuated equilibrium”? Simply put, slow steady change with intermitted “fast” change periods. Today, most of the niches are filled. You would not see large scale species change until most niches do not contain a life form. We are in a steady decline in species types. When this extinction stops and over time, maybe thousands of years, but probably 10’s of thousands, you would see large scale new species production. Thousands of years probably would not be recorded in the rock history. Why can he say this?

Because of:

Biology
Chemistry
Physics.

It is not a non-answer at all.

Is it unreasonable to state that this slow steady change could reach a point where the “changed” individual could not mate with the original one? Remember, if this changed happens to fast then neither the parent species or daughter species will be able to breed. Both go extinct.

What is your evidence that it all happened at once?

If all the “children” born this year could bread with each other and they could not bread with the “parent” species, we would both be right… God did it through evolution.

 

[praisejahupeople]

Human population has only really gone up *extremely* fast in the past century or two (Including doubling itself in about 50 years, starting around 1950). For most of human history, it grew at a fairly steady rate. My main guess as to why the human population used to grow at a more steady rate was because of the higher mortality rates. There wasn't as much medicine available, life expectancy was lower, and not as many people even lived past birth. With the advent of modern medicine we are able to stop so many conditions from being life-threatening. Thus, population explosion.

I agree with population having exploded in the last 100 years or so due to technological advancements however even before this skyrocketing population ,mankind has as you said grown at a steady rate.This includes devastating diseases that would of killed a lot of people.I would say it seems strange that mankinds population according to wiki stayed at under a thousand for such a long long time.
Also i note they seem to have the worlds population at a rather low figure before Christ.The exodus alone would of numbered into the millions.The city of nineveh in jonahs time was 120,000 people.
Cliffs=dont always trust what wiki has to say.

So using bible chronology from the flood , millions of people came from 4 couples in just 800 or so years.This can be backed up by looking at what we can observe today.Man breeds fast.
My point?I dont think mankind has been around as long as darwinists claim.

 

[praisejahupeople]

you forgot to give an answer to this as well.ill ask you this,i know of a lady who never married never had children and probably will die a spinster.
it is possible to take her skull after shes deceased and tell whether she has had children or not,plus be able to tell if her children were more intelligent than she was?
Im not sure if evolutionists will understand what im getting at here....

 

[An Arch Angel]

you forgot to give an answer to this as well.ill ask you this,i know of a lady who never married never had children and probably will die a spinster.
it is possible to take her skull after shes deceased and tell whether she has had children or not,plus be able to tell if her children were more intelligent than she was?
Im not sure if evolutionists will understand what im getting at here....

NO, And Yes to your last one.

but that is not what is done.

And remember, do not confuse science with scientist. They are diffrent. Science and religion are but tools. It is us that use them.

 

[Dark_Lite]

it is possible to take her skull after shes deceased and tell whether she has had children or not,plus be able to tell if her children were more intelligent than she was?

I told you I was looking for the name of the scientist who discovered how to do things like that. Whether it's possible in the way you describe I don't know. It is possible to identify facial structure and some skeletal structure off of teeth I believe. I may start a thread on who he is in the Physical & Life Sciences forum, people over there would know who he is.

 

[praisejahupeople]

I told you I was looking for the name of the scientist who discovered how to do things like that. Whether it's possible in the way you describe I don't know. It is possible to identify facial structure and some skeletal structure off of teeth I believe. I may start a thread on who he is in the Physical & Life Sciences forum, people over there would know who he is.

You can compare the skull with living specimens and deduce certain things.Certainly if her skeleton was found in the proximity of a family of other skeletons you would probably guess and say that she reproduced.
She might not of though.

Remember this is a human skull we are speaking of here,im trying to figure out how darwinists can read skulls of animals that dont exist in the natural world,and in some cases it seems they are just teeth and jawbones.
You have nothing to base your assumptions off.
Until some sort of mid primate mid human is discovered,its purely guesswork to try and place human like intelligence upon something that looks animal.
Not only that,they are almost as rare as hens teeth.You could easily say they are just freaks of nature not the norm.

 

[praisejahupeople]

This is difficult for darwinists to accept.We are force fed with that man evolving from primates is fact,that to attempt to counter it is unscientific and people like me belong in the dark ages.

 

[mpok1519]

they have MANY mid-primate mid-human fossils. Proanthropus Bosiei is a good example; looks like an ape but behaves human. Very mid-ape, mid-human-like. Many fossils of many different species such as australapithicus afarensis and africanus. Lucy is very mid-ape mid human. But, thats not convincing nearly enough, is it for the creationists?

But, the thing is, humans ARE primates! lol Yes, we are classified under primates. So, really, theres no such thing as mid-human/primate because human are primates.

But, we're in luck

they discovered the missing link just recently that links anteaters, cows, and primates.

-------------

You might not belong in the dark ages, but your percepions certainly might.

 

[An Arch Angel]

This is difficult for darwinists to accept.We are force fed with that man evolving from primates is fact,that to attempt to counter it is unscientific and people like me belong in the dark ages.

No true scientist would claim evolution as a “fact”. We do in “fact” say that the evidence seems to point more strongly to evolution than the bible’s 7 days creation story. All the bible says is that God created things. It does not offer any description of the mechanism used. Why does it have to be a wave of his hand?

What we do say is that it is funny how bible literalists hold so tightly to this story. It would be like a scientist holding on to the plum pudding model of the atom.

Let me ask you this.

Why must the earth been created in 7 days?
Why are you so afraid of evolution?

Can you explain rock strata that are much older than 10,000 years old?
Only, for simplicity sake, look at sedimentary rock, the Deposition rates alone suggest a longer time frame then 7 days. I didn’t even bring up Metamorphic Rock. How long was a day?

Why can’t we have both evolution and the bible? We have math books and the bible? Or does the bible teach math too, and if so at what grade level?

 

[GenemZ]

2 Thessalonians 2:6-8
"And now you know what is holding him back,
so that he may be revealed at the proper time.
For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work;
but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so
till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one
will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow
with the breath of his mouth and destroy
by the splendor of his coming."
​

The power system of the Antichrist has been around for a long time. Its always in waiting, awaiting for the removal of the Church from this earth. In more recent years its putting into motion the propagandizing of the world by means of the excellent communications that the world now has at its disposal.



Christianity will be removed from the earth just before the AntiChrist takes control. Pagan religions are too weak to unite the world today. Therefore, the AntiChrist can not resort to religion as a means to unify and lead the people of the world when he takes power. Right now the world power system working in his behalf is putting into play belief systems that the world can unite around.



Evolution will no longer be seen as a theory once the Christians are removed from the earth. It will be a system used to vindicate the survival of the fittest as those try to resist the AC are hunted down to be killed.

Another clever move that the antichrist system has already been preparing the world for, is with the global warming theory that no one can prove. The Global Warming scare will be needed for the future power grabbers to give an excuse for what the Bible says must take place.

Revelation 16:7-9
"And I heard the altar respond:
"Yes, Lord God Almighty,
true and just are your judgments."

The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun,

and the sun was given power to scorch people with fire.
They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed

the name of God, who had control over these plagues,

but they refused to repent and glorify him."



​

What seems as being unreasonable and illogical thinking today, will be used to make sense of the realities of the tribulation that is soon to be on this earth.



Lies will be used to cover the eyes of those who are to be kept from faith in Christ. Those lies will have been conditioned and ingrained in the minds of men when it comes. The only ones now who can see the truth are those whom the Holy Spirit can have fellowship with and guide into all Truth. All Truth that we need to know to have stability and peace in our given generation.






Grace and peace, GeneZ








.
​

 

[mpok1519]

and all of that dogma has absolutely nothing to do with the reality of evolution, im sorry

Its not good to try and derail the discussion.

Christians arent going to be hunted down and killed for their beliefs. This is radical paranoia of the highest degree, beyond rational thought.

 

[Blue sapphire]

Well it has been an interesting discussion......not much on my original question....but still interesting.

I have a question for those who propose evolution over 100,000's of years....one posed a while ago but no satisfactory answer given.

If man evolved.....why do we not see a variety of living species of the evolution of man. If evolution from a tadpole to a prince were true.....there should be living evidence of these evolved species.....somewhere.

Where are these living species.....how is it possible, that in all the earth....there is no living connection between the tadpole....ape ...man?

Man cannot breed with an ape.....so for a start....where is the living connection.

Right here...evolution falls apart.....they must rely on fossils for evidence.

 

[GenemZ]

and all of that dogma has absolutely nothing to do with the reality of evolution, im sorry

Its not good to try and derail the discussion.

Christians arent going to be hunted down and killed for their beliefs. This is radical paranoia of the highest degree, beyond rational thought.

I did not say Christians will be hunted down and killed off. I said that Christians will be removed before he can appear. I guess you never read the Bible?

Revelation 13:14-16
"Because of the signs he was given power to do on
behalf of the first beast, he deceived the
inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set
up an image in honor of the beast who was
wounded by the sword and yet lived.

He was given power to give breath to the image of
the first beast, so that it could speak and cause
all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
He also forced everyone, small and great,
rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a
mark on his right hand or on his forehead."
​

But, that's besides the point.

Its not so much that you think I wanted to derail this discussion. I was giving the reason why we are having this discussion. The reason it continues is because no one will except the truth. Those who claim to be defending Creationism are not properly understanding what is contained in the Bible, and the evolutionists refuse to acknowledge that the Bible reveals that there were prior creations to this one. This Biblical insight was discovered by scholars many years before the concept of evolution was conceived of. They were not defending Creationism as a motive.


Continue on. Fear not. Evolutionary theory in the future will be accepted as being fact. The truth will not get in its way. The truth is a gentleman.





In Christ, GeneZ

 

[mpok1519]

If man evolved.....why do we not see a variety of living species of the evolution of man. If evolution from a tadpole to a prince were true.....there should be living evidence of these evolved species.....somewhere.

There is. I keep saying it, but people keep ignoring what I am saying. Pronthropus Bosiei. Australapithics Afarensis and Africanus. Homo Ergaster. Homo Erectus. Theres fossils, skeletons, entire camps of these species living together in Africa, Asia, and Europe. No, they aren't living anymore, they went extinct, like how many animals go extinct. Some of their lineages evolved and adapted to a changing enviornment, eventually evolving into different speces.

We DO SEE a variety of living species of the evolution ofman.

They once lived, but, the evidence of their lives is certainly present. Why do people act as if this evidence doesnt exist when it clearly does.

Where are these living species.....how is it possible, that in all the earth....there is no living connection between the tadpole....ape ...man?

Living? What do you mean "living connection". Thats not a scientific term used within the study of the evolution of man.

Man cannot breed with an ape.....so for a start....where is the living connection.

Theres much speculation to infer that neanderthals bred with homo sapiens; two different species, but close enough to genetic compatibility to breed successfully. Coyotes and dogs can breed; theyre separate species, but they can breed successfully with reproductively viable offspring.

Right here...evolution falls apart.....they must rely on fossils for evidence.

lol no it doesnt fall apart. Man and chimpanzee share much genetic material between each other. Bonobos share even more, and share more behavioral characteristics.

No, evolution does not fall apart because theres no 'living conneciton', whatever the heck that means. I've taken the classes, and I've never heard an anthropologist or paleontologist use such a term to describe what you are inferring.

Tell me, have you ever taken a rigorous course in physical anthropology that comprehensively studies evolution of man? No? Then, why should we listen to your argument when it is fundamentally flawed d fallacious, and if I do dare to say, misleading and riddled with deception.

Why dont you do that first, THEN, come back here with your expertise. Okay? Okay. =)


----------

heres my take; if the devil is the father of all deception lies and whats not true, how come so many Christians spread and perpetuate misleading fallacious ideas when it comes to science? I mean, if Satan is responsible for telling lies, how come so many Christians tell and spread lies about science and evolution?

Its, baffeling. Almost as if "true" Christianity follows in the same line as Satanism.

I mean, seriously, if what is not true, is from the devil, and since evolution is true, wouldnt that mean that the Bible was written by the devil?

just a thought. =)

 

[mpok1519]

I did not say Christians will be hunted down and killed off. I said that Christians will be removed before he can appear. I guess you never read the Bible?

I have front and back. But, I take it less literally.

Its not so much that you think I wanted to derail this discussion. I was giving the reason why we are having this discussion. The reason it continues is because no one will except the truth. Those who claim to be defending Creationism are not properly understanding what is contained in the Bible, and the evolutionists refuse to acknowledge that the Bible reveals that there were prior creations to this one. This Biblical insight was discovered by scholars many years before the concept of evolution was conceived of. They were not defending Creationism as a motive.

Evolution was a concept before Christ even appeared on earth my friend. Aristotle and greek philosophers theorized certain biological taxonomies, chains of speciation, adaptation, etc. Evolution was an idea that existed beore Christianity existed; it was just in its infant stage.

Continue on. Fear not. Evolutionary theory in the future will be accepted as being fact. The truth will not get in its way. The truth is a gentleman.


In Christ, GeneZ

But, evolution is true, and accepted as fact today, my friend. Evolution is the gentleman you describe. What is false and lies is the product of Satan, correct? And if evolution is true, and creationism is a lie, by that same token (the Bible says what are lies are the creation of the devil, correct?) then that means, oh wow, that God is really the devil, right? I mean, if whats true is the product of God, and if God's word, the Bible, lies, then, well, woulnt that mean that the Bible was written by the devil? Just a thought, jut an idea.