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Women ClergyWe believe that the Holy Spirit continues to lead, revealing Gods will in ways that previous generations may not have discerned as we face new situations and questions of critical import in our time. On some matters we believe that we understand more clearly Gods will than Christians of previous generations.Now, more specifically on the question of the ordination of women. Methodists begin by underscoring the point that all baptized Christians are ministers of the gospel. Our links with the apostolic faith... lead us solemnly to affirm that all who are baptized into Christ are members of Christs ministry.... (Social Principles, 153) Hence, all of us--men and women--in the Methodist fold are called to witness to Jesus as Lord and Savior. Further, we believe that in the sight of God all--men and women--are equal. We affirm with Scripture the common humanity of male and female, both having equal worth in the eyes of God. (Social Principles, 35) If these affirmations are taken seriously, it is only logical that our Church would conclude that ordained ministry should be open to both men and women--regardless of what some texts of Scripture might suggest to the contrary.
Why does the United Methodist Church ordain women, especially when certain passages of Scripture seem to suggest that they not be given ministerial standing? Especially pertinent are statements in the New Testament that women should not teach or have authority over men (1 Tim. 2:8-15) and should not speak in church (I Cor. 14:34-35).
United Methodism and the Ordination of Women
Women Clergy
I really think that slamming my head into my desk repeatedly would be a more
productive use of my time than taking part in this conversation. People who say women cant be in ministry base their entire world view on TWO verses by Paul when the entire
I must point out that the Greek word diakonos, which is translated as deacon or minister for men is translated servant for women. Oh gee
Not a clerical office.I give to you Deborah - a judge and a leader of Israel.
A deaconess, you mean. Also not an ordained minister.I give to you Phoebe a deacon/minister in the church.
Because Paul's beliefs/letters of personal non inspired opinion (which often disagree with Christ) and 50cents will get you a 50cent candy bar at most mom and pop stores
Where did Jesus say women couldn't be bishops?
In fact where did Jesus say he even wanted bishops?
It's a very sad day for the Church of England that a small minority of members managed to block the introduction of women bishops. Very sad.
lol... good questions. That seems to hit to close to the core of institutionalized religious organizations across the world.Because Paul's beliefs/letters of personal non inspired opinion (which often disagree with Christ) and 50cents will get you a 50cent candy bar at most mom and pop stores
Where did Jesus say women couldn't be bishops?
In fact where did Jesus say he even wanted bishops?
Maybe so, it's only human nature to express disappointment....and if the vote had gone the other way, I'd be reading about how we have to accept the outcome because it was a fair and square vote.
Albion said:If it were only a job, it probably wouldn't.
A deaconess, you mean. Also not an ordained minister.
wikipedia said:Several deaconesses are specifically commended who took part in the Jesus movement alongside himself. Two of these women are Priscilla and Phoebe of the church in Cenchreae. He describes both of these women as "helpers of many" and "servants of the church whose business in Rome warranted the support of all the saints" (Rom 16:1–2).[19] When Paul mentions Phoebe, "our sister Phoebe [the] ἀδελφήν which means (sister) of the church of Cenchreae", he adds "she has been a helper of many and of myself as well". In describing her role and his in the congregation, Paul uses the Greek verb meaning "to be at the head of, to rule, to direct". In addition, Paul also speaks of other female ministers such as Mary, Tryphaena, Typhosa and Persis whom he writes "worked hard in the Lord" and "workers in the Lord" (v. 12). The contribution of these women is described by the same verb, χοπιάω, used to describe "toil" and "labour" (Matthew 11.28; John 4.6). Moreover, Paul uses this verb to describe his own work for the Lord and other apostolic labours. In addition, Mary's labour described as "among you" or "for your benefit" (v. 6) suggest a recognized role of ministry within the church .[20] The church at Philippi is another example of early female leadership where women both founded and controlled the church's ministry. In Paul’s letter to the Philippian church, he addresses the three female leaders, Euodia, Syntyche and a third, for which he uses the affectionate term, syzugē to mean "mate" (Phil. 4:1-3).[21] Through the Pauline epistles it is clear that deaconesses and other women exercised important roles identified and recognized as central within the office of the church.
Most of us cannot justify considering part of the Bible to be merely personal opinion, and therefore non-binding, while other parts are considered inspired.
Albion said:If it were only a job, it probably wouldn't.
A deaconess, you mean. Also not an ordained minister.
wikipedia said:Several deaconesses are specifically commended who took part in the Jesus movement alongside himself. Two of these women are Priscilla and Phoebe of the church in Cenchreae. He describes both of these women as "helpers of many" and "servants of the church whose business in Rome warranted the support of all the saints" (Rom 16:12).[19] When Paul mentions Phoebe, "our sister Phoebe [the] ἀδελφήν which means (sister) of the church of Cenchreae", he adds "she has been a helper of many and of myself as well". In describing her role and his in the congregation, Paul uses the Greek verb meaning "to be at the head of, to rule, to direct". In addition, Paul also speaks of other female ministers such as Mary, Tryphaena, Typhosa and Persis whom he writes "worked hard in the Lord" and "workers in the Lord" (v. 12). The contribution of these women is described by the same verb, χοπιάω, used to describe "toil" and "labour" (Matthew 11.28; John 4.6). Moreover, Paul uses this verb to describe his own work for the Lord and other apostolic labours. In addition, Mary's labour described as "among you" or "for your benefit" (v. 6) suggest a recognized role of ministry within the church .[20] The church at Philippi is another example of early female leadership where women both founded and controlled the church's ministry. In Pauls letter to the Philippian church, he addresses the three female leaders, Euodia, Syntyche and a third, for which he uses the affectionate term, syzugē to mean "mate" (Phil. 4:1-3).[21] Through the Pauline epistles it is clear that deaconesses and other women exercised important roles identified and recognized as central within the office of the church.
Most of us cannot justify considering part of the Bible to be merely personal opinion, and therefore non-binding, while other parts are considered inspired.
Albion said:If it were only a job, it probably wouldn't.
A deaconess, you mean. Also not an ordained minister.
wikipedia said:Several deaconesses are specifically commended who took part in the Jesus movement alongside himself. Two of these women are Priscilla and Phoebe of the church in Cenchreae. He describes both of these women as "helpers of many" and "servants of the church whose business in Rome warranted the support of all the saints" (Rom 16:12).[19] When Paul mentions Phoebe, "our sister Phoebe [the] ἀδελφήν which means (sister) of the church of Cenchreae", he adds "she has been a helper of many and of myself as well". In describing her role and his in the congregation, Paul uses the Greek verb meaning "to be at the head of, to rule, to direct". In addition, Paul also speaks of other female ministers such as Mary, Tryphaena, Typhosa and Persis whom he writes "worked hard in the Lord" and "workers in the Lord" (v. 12). The contribution of these women is described by the same verb, χοπιάω, used to describe "toil" and "labour" (Matthew 11.28; John 4.6). Moreover, Paul uses this verb to describe his own work for the Lord and other apostolic labours. In addition, Mary's labour described as "among you" or "for your benefit" (v. 6) suggest a recognized role of ministry within the church .[20] The church at Philippi is another example of early female leadership where women both founded and controlled the church's ministry. In Pauls letter to the Philippian church, he addresses the three female leaders, Euodia, Syntyche and a third, for which he uses the affectionate term, syzugē to mean "mate" (Phil. 4:1-3).[21] Through the Pauline epistles it is clear that deaconesses and other women exercised important roles identified and recognized as central within the office of the church.
Most of us cannot justify considering part of the Bible to be merely personal opinion, and therefore non-binding, while other parts are considered inspired.
The Lord teaches us through His Word that women are not
given the responsibility of serving the church as pastors.We
read the following statements:
“As in all the churches of the saints, the women should
keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to
speak,but should be subordinate,as even the law says …what
I am writing to you is a command of the Lord” (1 Cor.
14:33–34,37).[/quote]
I don't believe that verse says anything about women being unable to preach or hold office in the church...just that "I do not permit a woman to speak".
“The saying is sure: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer,
he desires a noble task.Now an overseer must be above
reproach,the husband of one wife…”(1 Tim.3:1–2).
“This is why I left you in Crete …that you might appoint
elders in every town as I directed you,if any man is blameless,
the husband of one wife…”(Titus 1:5–6).
These verses refer to elders and "overseers" - not pastors.
Various social reformers in our culture would have us
believe that men and women are totally interchangeable and
that their God-given differences simply have no bearing on life
in this world. Not only does this run contrary to the clear testimony
of nature,it also contradicts the Bible.The Bible teaches
us a different view of God’s creation.
I don't believe that anyone is making that particular argument. Only that there doesn't seem to be any practical reason that dictates women's inability to preach.
Ringo
Only that there doesn't seem to be any practical reason that dictates women's inability to preach.
A deaconess had many of the same roles as an ordained minister
You didn't address this passage:
Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I
permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she
is to keep silent(1 Tim.2:1112)
Of course they did (and do). So do lay ministers, Church administrators, Sunday School educators, and nuns.
I agree with you that they had "many" of the same roles or responsibilities as deacons, and I appreciate that you kmow it isn't "all." Deaconesses still exist, you know.
Yes I did. I said that verse doesn't seem to say that women can't preach or hold office - only that "I do not permit a woman to teach".
What are the rationales for women "remaining silent"?
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