how koran knew that?

[PastorFreud]

In the Book of Job there's also some fairly accurate scientific principles we see in our world everyday.

The Book of Job also has some fairly metaphorical, allegorical, and nonsense ideas. I love the creation account in Job. It is very poetic. Most Christians immediately recognize this creation story as poetic, while insisting the 2 in Genesis are literal history. With words and their ever evolving meanings, you can find a way to explain how plants existed before sunlight, but it makes more sense to understand the genre of creation myths as distinct from historical accounts.

 

[Al T]

Of course Job is full of poetic material and plenty of metaphors.
I never said that either Genesis or Job were 100% accurate and scientifically valid. Of course there are folk on here that believe that, but I happen to not be one of them.
To be fair (and I didn't really make myself clear) I was thinking about how the water-cycle was described, not the creation of the Earth.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The Book of Job also has some fairly metaphorical, allegorical, and nonsense ideas. I love the creation account in Job. It is very poetic. Most Christians immediately recognize this creation story as poetic, while insisting the 2 in Genesis are literal history. With words and their ever evolving meanings, you can find a way to explain how plants existed before sunlight, but it makes more sense to understand the genre of creation myths as distinct from historical accounts.

3 "And God said, Let there be (sun)light: and there was light.
5 And God called the (sun)light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so."

Looks right to me.

 

[DogmaHunter]

3 "And God said, Let there be (sun)light: and there was light.
5 And God called the (sun)light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so."

Looks right to me.

You missed a few things there.

The part where he creates a "dome" or "vault" with water above it and then calls the "dome" or "vault" the "sky".

Not to mention that it's only on the third "day" (you know, after it was evening and morning) that he creates the sun, the moon and the stars.

Doesn't sound that right to me.
There's more off course, but we only need 1 nonsense example to demonstrate the nonsense. I gave you two.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Not to mention that it's only on the third "day" (you know, after it was evening and morning) that he creates the sun, the moon and the stars.

Doesn't sound that right to me.
There's more off course, but we only need 1 nonsense example to demonstrate the nonsense. I gave you two.

Genesis 1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
This is the very beginning, not 4.6 billion years later.

2 And the earth was (became) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (This is 4.6 billion years later.)

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. (God removes the 'darkness' revealing the preexisting sun.)

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. (A day is composed of the 360 degree rotation of the earth during which it is exposed to the sun.......the light.)

On the fourth day God recaps and adds to the first day's events, making appointments of duties for the sun and moon.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Oafman]

Genesis 1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
This is the very beginning, not 4.6 billion years later.

2 And the earth was (became) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (This is 4.6 billion years later.)

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. (God removes the 'darkness' revealing the preexisting sun.)

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. (A day is composed of the 360 degree rotation of the earth during which it is exposed to the sun.......the light.)

On the fourth day God recaps and adds to the first day's events, making appointments of duties for the sun and moon.

I'm not sure you have this right. I was always taught that 'let there be light' was on day one, and "he called the light day and the dark night" was also day one.

The he created the sun and other stars on day 3 or 4 or something.

So what was producing the light before there was a sun or other stars? I mean, really you would have to do the stars right after you did the heavens. You would need the stars before the planets, because orbital mechanics.

Oh yeah, and the universe existed for about 9 billion years before our sun formed.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I'm not sure you have this right. I was always taught that 'let there be light' was on day one, and "he called the light day and the dark night" was also day one.

The he created the sun and other stars on day 3 or 4 or something.

So what was producing the light before there was a sun or other stars? I mean, really you would have to do the stars right after you did the heavens. You would need the stars before the planets, because orbital mechanics.

Oh yeah, and the universe existed for about 9 billion years before our sun formed.

No, no, no... cuz' magic.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'm not sure you have this right. I was always taught that 'let there be light' was on day one, and "he called the light day and the dark night" was also day one.

It is the light and absence of light from the sun that makes day and night. On day one God removed the darkness, revealing the preexisting sun.

 

[Oafman]

It is the light and absence of light from the sun that makes day and night. On day one God removed the darkness, revealing the preexisting sun.

I'm pretty sure you have this wrong.

This is from Day 4:
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness
So the sun was not 'preexisting', according to Genesis God made it on day 4, along with the Moon and all of the other stars.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'm pretty sure you have this wrong.

This is from Day 4:
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness
So the sun was not 'preexisting', according to Genesis God made it on day 4, along with the Moon and all of the other stars.

If the sun didn't appear until the fourth day, that would be the first day. You can't have day without the sun.

If the sun didn't exist (at all) until day 4 how do you explain plant and animal life on earth prior to this time?

 

[DogmaHunter]

If the sun didn't appear until the fourth day, that would be the first day. You can't have day without the sun.

If the sun didn't exist (at all) until day 4 how do you explain plant and animal life on earth prior to this time?

Exactly. Genesis obviously has the order all mixed up.
It's clearly stated the sun, stars and moon weren't created until the 4th "day".

That's exactly our point.

 

[Oafman]

If the sun didn't appear until the fourth day, that would be the first day. You can't have day without the sun.

If the sun didn't exist (at all) until day 4 how do you explain plant and animal life on earth prior to this time?

The particular days on which things happened aren't really up for discussion. Genesis is unusually unambiguous about this.

"5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
....
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
.......
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day."

Day & night on day one. Sun, moon and stars on day four

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Exactly. Genesis obviously has the order all mixed up.
It's clearly stated the sun, stars and moon weren't created until the 4th "day".

That's exactly our point.

Verses 14-18 are just a recapitulation, with added information, of verses 3-5.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Verses 14-18 are just a recapitulation, with added information, of verses 3-5.

Adding to the bible, are we?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Adding to the bible, are we?

Just reading it so it makes more sense.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Just reading it so it makes more sense.

So...yes.

Basically, you just said the following "the way it's written down is obviously nonsense, so I'll imagine they really meant something else - that way I can still continue to say that the book is truth".

In other words, the book is right - even when it's wrong.

No further comments.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So...yes.

Basically, you just said the following "the way it's written down is obviously nonsense, so I'll imagine they really meant something else - that way I can still continue to say that the book is truth".

In other words, the book is right - even when it's wrong.

No further comments.

The bible is like a map, and the map is always right even if you are lost.

 

[Oafman]

The bible is like a map, and the map is always right even if you are lost.

Some maps turned out to be wrong. Especially those created by people whose knowledge was very limited:

 

[DogmaHunter]

The bible is like a map, and the map is always right even if you are lost.

If the map swaps north america with australia, then the map is wrong.
And "reading it so it makes more sense" by imagining that america is where it is supposed to be, will not change the fact that it's in the wrong place on the map.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Some maps turned out to be wrong. Especially those created by people whose knowledge was very limited:

Let's assume that modern maps are accurate, and that the lost person is in the mapped area. The map won't help it he or she can't read it.