• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

How is it consistent to criticize the left for hating America AND not having an objective morality ?

Hammster

Carpe Chaos
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
144,404
27,057
57
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,962,858.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

Ken-1122

Newbie
Jan 30, 2011
13,574
1,792
✟233,210.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
It’s good for all of life.
Assuming that to be true, to be good for all of life does not make you a moral authority. I could make the same claim for myself as being the moral authority for all of mankind; anybody can make such a claim.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Carpe Chaos
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
144,404
27,057
57
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,962,858.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Assuming that to be true, to be good for all of life does not make you a moral authority. I could make the same claim for myself as being the moral authority for all of mankind; anybody can make such a claim.
I never claimed to be a moral authority.
 
Upvote 0

gaara4158

Gen Alpha Dad
Aug 18, 2007
6,441
2,688
United States
✟216,414.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Then you are amoral, by your own standard. If anyone rejects your arbitrary and indemonstrable standard of morality, you declare their standard invalid. I do the same to you.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Carpe Chaos
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
144,404
27,057
57
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,962,858.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Then you are amoral, by your own standard. If anyone rejects your arbitrary and indemonstrable standard of morality, you declare their standard invalid. I do the same to you.
Okay.
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,651
4,679
Hudson
✟345,865.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
If you are using evil as a theistic concept then I have no problem with you denying it exists if you lose your faith. I don't think it exists in that sense. But if you simply mean doing something immoral, then obviously it always exists. And labelling something as immoral means that you have already decided that it shouldn't be done. People don't stop doing things because they are immoral. They decide what should not be done - based on the facts of the matter, their own intelligence, social expectations, conscience, empathy etc and then call it immoral.

Morality doesn't require theism. It doesn't require religion. It doesn't require a belief in God. It doesn't require one to be Christian. You don't own the concept. You don't steal your neighbours lawnmower because you know it's wrong. Same as me. Same as most everyone else. In fact, anyone who would steal it also knows it's wrong. But if you want to say that you also don't do it because it would offend God, then go for it.
It is strange that you have no problem with me denying that evil exists if I lost my faith, however, denying that evil exists is synonymous with denying that immorality exists, yet you don't want to say the same for immorality. It is one thing for you to assert that it obvious that immorality has always existed or that a particular act like stealing is immoral, but it is quite another for you to demonstrate that is the case without being able to appeal to theism. You have no source for having moral obligations and there is nothing else that happens regardless of whether someone meets or doesn't meet it. You can assert that morality doesn't require theism, doesn't require religion, and doesn't require a believe in God, but your claims remain unsubstantiated without anything to support them.
 
Upvote 0

Neutral Observer

Active Member
Nov 25, 2022
318
121
North America
✟42,625.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The standard that God wants us to live by.

And what standard is that?

You might as well call it 'Bob's Standard' for all the good that does me.

Like I said, calling it 'God's Standard' is meaningless to me, and therefore useless. I want to know what the standard is, not what it's called.
 
Upvote 0

Bradskii

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Aug 19, 2018
23,284
15,957
72
Bondi
✟376,432.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
It is strange that you have no problem with me denying that evil exists if I lost my faith, however, denying that evil exists is synonymous with denying that immorality exists, yet you don't want to say the same for immorality. It is one thing for you to assert that it obvious that immorality has always existed or that a particular act like stealing is immoral, but it is quite another for you to demonstrate that is the case without being able to appeal to theism. You have no source for having moral obligations and there is nothing else that happens regardless of whether someone meets or doesn't meet it. You can assert that morality doesn't require theism, doesn't require religion, and doesn't require a believe in God, but your claims remain unsubstantiated without anything to support them.

What sort of argument is that? Morality is quite simply the concept of what we, individually and as a society, consider to be right and wrong. Religion will govern what a lot of people decide on that matter but to suggest that the concept itself and the decisions we make don't or can't exist outside of religion is the weirdest statement I've heard for quite some time.

But maybe you can find a definition that says that morality requires religion. But I won't be holding my breath because I know one doesn't exist.
 
Upvote 0