Getting back to God is not in itself justice.
One of the products of getting back to God is being justified to the Lord through Jesus.
That's not true. You have also claimed that Christians are special because they are more loving, have more integrity, make better lawyers and judges, are less greedy, less susceptible to evil, sin less, and are more humble. Oh wait, definitely not the last one, eh? So with all these claims of how Christians are better and non-Christians are worse, in what way are Christians not just better, superior human beings?
I never said Christians are more loving or have more integrity, nor are they less greedy, nor that they sin less (whether they sin less or not is irrelevant anyways as they will still sin, and all sin falls short of God's glory). What I said was that Christians may access God's word and allow themselves to be guided by that and by the Holy Spirit to use better judgement and therefore less likely or less susceptible to the temptations of the world and their own sinful nature. I also made it quite clear that any fruitful works we produce or wisdom we demonstrate are not done by our own power, but by the power of Christ. Therefore, we are not superior to non-Christians, rather Christ is superior to all.
You want to keep twisting my words and say I am calling Christians "superior", go right ahead. I will just keep calling you out.
An eye for an eye is not justice, it's vengeance. It's not a matter whether I like it, it's whether we can explain why it is just. Can you explain how God is just without relying on "because God says He is?" I'm not the kind of person who simply accepts assertion, I need to understand, I need explanation. If we cannot rationalize how God is just then how can we claim that He is? Alternatively, if God is just and we can't explain why then we should not have a justice system. Afterall, if we are ignorant of justice, how can we ever try to enforce it? How can we claim a law to be just or unjust? How can we claim any action to be unjust? We can't.
That is your personal definition of vengeance. Many people around the world would disagree with you and say that an eye for an eye is in fact justice. It absolutely is a matter of whether you like it or not, because that's what God has stated and God is Lord of all. I already gave my explanation, if that's not enough for you then do your own research into this. There is plenty available on the internet and in libraries. But it does come down to whether you like it or not. Because once you have an explanation you can understand, you will either like it and accept it, or you won't like it and refuse to accept it. That's how everything is with man and God. Understanding is always available to those who seek it out.
No. I'm asking a simple question: how is God just? If the only answer is "because I said so", then that's a non-explanation.
Research it yourself then. Seek other sources. Or you can stop with what I said and continue to live without understanding. God favors those who seek him out diligently.
Are laws that allow abortion handled? How about gay marriage? When blacks were slaves or segregated, were those laws, okay
God judges us for our sins. All of it falls short of his glory. All of it was paid by Jesus' blood, and He justifies us back to God.
If a Christian is convicted of a crime, has justice been done?
Depends what you mean by crime. A Christian convicted by the courts for a crime they committed has been justly convicted. No Christian is convicted by God, because they are made blameless by Christ's blood. To convict them for their sin would be unjust, because Jesus died to pay that price for them. It's an affront to God to claim anybody who faithes in Christ should be judged for their sins. For that very reason Satan was cast out of heaven after Jesus' resurrection, and he can no longer stand before God and accuse us like he used to.
It's enough to know that you believe what happens. Why it happens is incidental.
That's the third ignorant statement of the week and it demonstrates your stubbornness. It also demonstrates your willful ignorance, because you are not even interested in understanding. You've already made up your mind that there is no way you are going to accept Christ's sacrifice as justifying us back to God regardless of the explanation given. But like it or not, that's how it is, and that's what you'll have to face if you don't wise up and turn to Jesus.
Yes. That's my point. Except that justice cannot differ. So let's turn it around: if we are ignorant of justice, how can we create laws? How can we punish people when those laws are broken? We do these things in the name of justice, and you're saying we're all wrong.
Justice absolutely can differ, because they are dealing with two different perspectives and hierarchies. Worldly justice concerns with our life on earth. God's eternal justice concerns our eternal fate. Someone may live a law-abiding life on earth, but to God they have committed sins and never faithed in Jesus. They will be put to justice for that. Conversely, somebody may commit crimes in this world and be sentenced to death. But if they faithe in Jesus, their *sins* are covered by Christ's sacrifice and be made blameless before God. They justly enter the kingdom of heaven.
Are Christians changed? Is a Christian better (superior) to his former self?
Yes, Jesus works in our hearts to continuously improve us into the person he wants us to be. But it is only by the power of Jesus, and nothing can be improved on our own. We cannot brag of anything ourselves, we thank Christ for what he has done for us.
Really? Westboro Baptist Church ? What abour that pastor who says to beat the gay out if your children? Or all of Uganda
Those examples prove my point that Christians can still fall back into sin. The Bible states this, this isn't anything new. Men of God have made thousands of mistakes, it's all over Scripture. Doesn't change the fact that they still faithed in the Lord and that's what got them favor with God. All of mankind falls short of God. He is looking for those who recognize this and recognize that they need the Lord in their lives.
No, I'm saying that because they believe themselves superior. Not that they actually are.
Semantics. Either way my statement stands.
Right. How is that justice?
It's justice because Jesus' blood pays for our sins. Jesus, as a sinless man, willingly offering himself as a perfect sacrifice in our place, is counted by God as payment for our sins. Like if we are charged a fine in court so high that we could never pay, then Jesus offers to pay it for us, because he's the only one who can. God accepts it, in fact he wants it because he loves us and doesn't want us to suffer. But justice must be paid and if Jesus does not pay for our sins because we reject him, then we will pay.
For anyone to insist that we alone must pay the fine and nobody is allowed to pay it for us is evil. Think about that, if a person can't pay the fine, the punishment for that is death (hell). Here is Jesus, who can pay the fine and willingly did for us, so that our charge is fulfilled and we can walk free (eternal life). Only a person with evil in their heart would wish that the one charged with the fine cannot allow anyone to pay it for them, thus being irrevocably condemned to death (hell). Basically to call God's plan unjust is to wish for all of mankind including yourself to suffer eternal damnation. To wish that is evil, no way around it. There is no sound reason in the world to argue that Jesus is wrong for both being *allowed* to pay the fine, and for *willingly offering* to pay the fine. Because this is the happy ending outcome. The fine is paid (justice), and we get to walk free (everlasting life). Hallelujah.
JGG...did you read the passage I mentioned? If so, what consequences does Paul warn the Corinthians about? Does this passage imply that Christians get a 'free-ticket' if they sin?
These people want to understand us, and it is right to grant that. Whether it is attractive, not necessarily our fault or theirs.