How In Good Conscience Can A Christian Vote Democrat?

[Albion]

Very well said. So much comes back to some Christians being a one or two issue voter--for example abortion and LGBTQ rights. They ignore things like health care, environmental issues such as global warming, gun violence, etc.

There isn't any basis for saying that, you know.

 

[Archivist]

There isn't any basis for saying that, you know.

Wrong.

I know Christians who vote entirely based on a candidate's view on abortion. They don’t care about providing health care for the pregnant woman or baby, they don’t care what kind of environment we will have in 50 years.

 

[RDKirk]

If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. -- 1 John 4

People who claim they're concerned about the unborn--whom they cannot see--and yet show disdain for the lives of those already born--whom they can see--can't be taken seriously. They are, in fact, liars. And that category contains a huge number of people who proclaim themselves Christians.

One cannot claim to be concerned about the unborn and yet be cold on issues such as war, poverty, healthcare, prison reform, the environment, or even wearing a mask without being a liar.

A person can't claim to be concerned about the unborn and yet unconcerned about the conditions that lead a woman to that decision point. That person--concerned about those he can't see but unconcerned about those he can see--is a liar. There are a whole lot of lying Christians.

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. -- Matthew 10

Who, in fact, is at true risk in the abortion room? The baby? The woman? The doctor? If fear more the destruction of both soul and body than we fear destruction of only the body, then the baby is actually at the least risk. Pretty much all of us believe the baby will go to heaven. It's the adults who are at risk of losing their souls, and that's what we're supposed to be most concerned about.

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. -- Matthew 5

If the woman desires an abortion for whatever reason, the desire itself is the sin that condemns her. Abortion laws do not address the desire. For those who are concerned about her soul, abortion laws do nothing for the person who is most at risk of eternal condemnation.

How do we reach her and change her mind to keep her off that path from the beginning?

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. -- Matthew 28

This is the mission that Jesus commanded His Body to execute. Jesus did not direct His disciples to go out and force pagans to act like Christians. He commanded us to go out and make disciples from every nation, and when people become disciples and obey everything Jesus has commanded, then....

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will. -- Romans 12

But we have the mind of Christ. -- 1 Corinthians 2

And a woman with the mind of Christ will stay off the path that leads to abortion.

 

[Albion]

Wrong.

I know Christians who vote entirely based on a candidate's view on abortion.

Well, the unnecessary deaths of innocents ought to be a headline concern, don't you think?? We often throw most of our energies behind one or another big crisis issue as they arrive. That's what the Climate Change people do, and you approve of them, I take it. That's what the people who are concerned first and foremost with achieving world peace do, and so forth.

The only reason for scorning people who think thirty million abortions in one country alone is not major would be that the observer doesn't share their concern. That's exactly what you did in your post when criticizing pro-life people.

They don’t care about providing health care for the pregnant woman or baby, they don’t care what kind of environment we will have in 50 years.

That's nonsense. While I cannot deny that you might have met some people who fit that bill, the generalization you've made here is unfair. Indeed, I would guess that the Christians who are opposed to abortion on demand are even more willing to help the pregnant women during and afterwards than are the pro-choice people who are mainly concerned with getting them the abortion.

 

[Arcangl86]

What issue can be more important than life?

I agree 100% This is why I am voting the party that supports gun control, extending health care to all people, granting refugee to people fleeing violent countries, promoting comprehensive sexual education and easy to access birth control to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies and other issues related to life. As I whole the Democratic Party is closer to my Christian values then the GOP which seems to limit it's Christianity to being anti-abortion and being anti same gender marriage.

 

[Charlie24]

I agree 100% This is why I am voting the party that supports gun control, extending health care to all people, granting refugee to people fleeing violent countries, promoting comprehensive sexual education and easy to access birth control to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies and other issues related to life. As I whole the Democratic Party is closer to my Christian values then the GOP which seems to limit it's Christianity to being anti-abortion and being anti same gender marriage.

OK, we can both present our cases before God when we meet Him.

 

[Albion]

Jesus didn’t even mention abortion, and it was not uncommon in his time. It’s only in very recent modern times that abortion has been seen as wrong.

It's only in modern times that science has proven that the "fetus" is a child and, at a certain point, capable of living outside the womb.

In centuries past, when this was not known and the idea of the fetus was that it is just a clump of cells or something else in that vein, of course abortions were less subject to criticism. That was also an era in which cats were thrown into fires with the explanation that they can't feel pain, so no problem.

But what did Jesus talk of the most? How we treat the least among us. For many of us, that is at the center of our faith and practice.

And getting back to the Bible as you are doing there, don't forget that the Scriptures also state that the fetus is a child and that God knows each of them.

 

[Archivist]

Well, the unnecessary deaths of innocents ought to be a headline concern, don't you think?? We often throw most of our energies behind one or another big crisis issue as they arrive. That's what the Climate Change people do, and you approve of them, I take it. That's what the people who are concerned first and foremost with achieving world peace do, and so forth.

At no time in this thread have I criticized pro-life people as you have falsely claimed. I have criticized those who vote on a single issue. With the exception of a few green voters, that almost always seems to be those who oppose abortion.

I have many friends who oppose abortion, but they are not single issue voters. When they go to the polls it is only one of many issues that they look at when choosing a candidate. One pro-life friend who has already voted cast his vote for Biden. He made a list of where he agreed with each candidate. He was certainly with Trump on abortion, but against Trump on health care, on the environment, on cuts to Social Security, on military spending.

The only reason for scorning people who think thirty million abortions in one country alone is not major would be that the observer doesn't share their concern. That's exactly what you did in your post when criticizing pro-life people.

I have not scorned anyone, nor have I criticized pro-life people as you have falsely claimed. I have only criticized single-issue voters. As i said, my experience is that most of them are anti-abortion voters.

That's nonsense.

No, only nonsense here is what you are typing.

While I cannot deny that you might have met some people who fit that bill, the generalization you've made here is unfair. Indeed, I would guess that the Christians who are opposed to abortion on demand are even more willing to help the pregnant women during and afterwards than are the pro-choice people who are mainly concerned with getting them the abortion.

And as I have said, I know pro-life individuals who consider that as one factor in making their determination. I NEVER said that everyone who is pro-life voter is a single issue voter. However, I have known more one-issue voters on that issue than any other.

 

[Archivist]

OK, we can both present our cases before God when we meet Him.

And God will forgive whoever made the incorrect choice, if either choice can be said to be incorrect. The US is not a Christian nation, and my experience is that neither party is the "Christian party."

 

[Arcangl86]

Exactly. Neither party lines up completely with Christian values, and all that can be expected of any American Christian I think is that we examine both parties and pray, and then vote for the party we think is closer to our values. I'm against abortion, but i also don't think a ban will stop it or even reduce the numbers. I believe a number of policies promoted by the Democrats will reduce the amounts of abortions, and also individually support those same policies for other reasons.

 

[Sistrin]

How In Good Conscience Can A Christian Vote Democrat?

Because as a general rule they are Democrats first and Christians a far distant second.

 

[Sistrin]

Jesus didn’t even mention abortion...

So? You state that as if the phrase constitutes a de facto endorsement of abortion, as if the fact the Bible does not quote Jesus utilizing the word abortion progresses logically to support for abortion on demand. Please.

...and it was not uncommon in his time.

Again, so? Again your...logic...is seriously flawed. People murdered each other during those times as well. Does that fact justify murder today?

It’s only in very recent modern times that abortion has been seen as wrong.

Because Science. You know, that word the liberal left tosses around whenever they want to justify destroying the economy or the nation or individual freedom or just make themselves feel superior.

But what did Jesus talk of the most? How we treat the least among us. For many of us, that is at the center of our faith and practice.

Would not the unborn, the most vulnerable and defenseless by definition, qualify as within that group of the least among us?

 

[dqhall]

Very well said. So much comes back to some Christians being a one or two issue voter--for example abortion and LGBTQ rights. They ignore things like health care, environmental issues such as global warming, gun violence, etc.

When they had laws against abortion, women were aborting pregnancies using a coat hanger. There is not enough peer pressure against premarital sex. Some states banned abortion, others did not.

Homosexuality is a sin, but legal. People may preach against it. Some Muslims executed LGBT people.
Matthew 7:1 “Judge not lest you be judged.”

 

[Albion]

At no time in this thread have I criticized pro-life people as you have falsely claimed.

Well, you've done it three times in only a few posts.

 

[jgarden]

Joe Biden promises he will make Roe v. Wade the law of the land if a conservative SCOTUS overturn it | Daily Mail Online

I'm sure that is one campaign promise he will keep if elected.

Conservative Christians supporting the Republicans and this President are operating under the assumprion that once they have enough Sumpreme Court Justices, Roe v Wade will be ouerturned and the abortion problem will be solved!

The reality is that its impoosible to force a women to have a full term pregnancy against her will - as has been demonstrated repeatedly in those jurisdictions around the world where abortion is already illegal!

There are a wide ramge of government policies that could influence a woman's decision when it comes to abortion, but despite their pious rhetoric ProLife hasn't shown much interest in making children and families a priority in America!

 

[Albion]

Conservative Christians supporting the Republicans and this President are operating under the assumprion that once they have enough Sumpreme Court Justices, Roe v Wade will be ouerturned and the abortion problem will be solved!

That is probably the POV of some of them, but it would be a mistake to think that the typical "Conservative Christian" only cares about that one issue or thinks it's the only reason for voting to re-elect the President.

I also doubt very much that whoever does think along those lines also supposes that, with a favorable Supreme Court ruling, the "problem will be solved".

 

[jgarden]

Because as a general rule they are Democrats first and Christians a far distant second.

Could it be that those Christians who refuse to vote Republican prefer not to support what they consider to be a "false prophet?"

The threat posed by the "false prophet" is a reoccurring theme throughout the Old and New Testaments and warns Christians not to be deceived by ambitious leaders just because they claim to be fulfilling God's "Plan!"

 

[Archivist]

Well, you've done it three times in only a few posts.

No, but if you want to keep making things up I'm sure you can add to that number. According to Gallop 24% of pro-choice adults will only vote for candidates who share their views on abortion. Those are single-issue voters.

I have not criticized those who oppose abortion. I am only criticizing those who are single-issue voters. You can't seem to figure that out although you said in your post 36 "that whoever does think along those lines also supposes that, with a favorable Supreme Court ruling, the ‘problem will be solved.’”Obviously you agree with me that there are single issue voters out there on the abortion issue, so I don't know why your arguing with me.

 

[Archivist]

When they had laws against abortion, women were aborting pregnancies using a coat hanger. There is not enough peer pressure against premarital sex. Some states banned abortion, others did not.

Homosexuality is a sin, but legal. People may preach against it. Some Muslims executed LGBT people.
Matthew 7:1 “Judge not lest you be judged.”

Agreed.

 

[tulc]

How In Good Conscience Can A Christian Vote Democrat?

I haven't had any problem with it so far. I suspect it's because I answer to the Lord for who I vote for and not the Republican Party. And He doesn't appear to have any problem with me doing so.
tulc(wishes all questions were this easy to answer)