How important is it to be baptized by water?

[The Fire Rises]

So today, my little sister was baptized and I could not be more proud of her. My mother, father and I were all baptized by water some years ago at our old church, nearly a decade ago now.

At the time, I don't think I was fully aware of the magnitude of baptism. I believed in God, certainly. And I believed Jesus died to save me of my sins. And I believed that accepting Him as your personal savior was how one got to Heaven.

Today, our pastor talked about how, when one gets baptized, they are made "new". That the old self is dead. But looking back, that was not true for me.

After my baptism, as the years went on, I fell deeper and deeper into sin. I drifted so far away from God, I almost never thought about Him, or prayed. When I did pray, it was always a half-hearted "wish list". My mindset became increasingly sinful and selfish.

It was not until, taking a step back and looking at what my 'faith' had become did I truly commit myself to knowing Jesus. Thus started a long, dark process with many up's and down's. But here after months of searching, I am a new man. Certainly not perfect, by any stretch of the imagination. My desires have been changed, my mindset is now more focused on God and I am no longer addicted to sin and can now look temptation in the face and say "No"

So here's my question. Based on the fact that the baptism by water didn't really "do" anything for me, of what use is it? I realize Jesus did it and advocated it, which is certainly of importance. But is it nessary to be saved? Is not the baptism of the Holy Spirit (which is what I believe changed me) what really matters?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I have a habit of asking those. All I ask is an honest (and preferably polite) answer.

Thanks

 

[K2K]

Excellent question and point. I was baptized when I was about 10, making a decision for myself at that time. Yet I spent the next thrirty years without knowing the Lord. I lead a very normal life, not getting into any major trouble, but not going to church either. Mostly I worked hard, went through school, had a family and such.

Then when I was about 40, the Lord came into my life in a big way. I've gotten to know Him and have conversations with Him everyday.

So was my was my baptism when I was ten important? Perhaps it was the reason the Lord came back into my life when I was 40. I didn't seek Him then, but rather He came looking for me. So I suspect that my decision made early in life was important. Not because it caused me to start seeking Him, but because He honored that commitment to Him and came looking for me. At least that is what I think.

 

[New_Wineskin]

So here's my question. Based on the fact that the baptism by water didn't really "do" anything for me, of what use is it?

It is of less use than circumcism - another Jewish ritual .

But is it nessary to be saved?

Absolutely not .

Is not the baptism of the Holy Spirit (which is what I believe changed me) what really matters?

The baptism by Jesus is the only one that matters .

 

[Denisa Tharsos]

I think that is like a sealing of your salvation...of course, I don't think that you are not saved until you get baptized in water. But it is a command that is the the NT.
I don't know if it the same everywhere, but in my country usually people have the impression that if they get baptized in a certain church, than they belong to that church and religion. Some get baptized in water when they change religion. I don't thnik the same. It is a public confession of your faith and of the fact you are following Jesus.

Personally, I loved being baptized and I would do it again anytime, if I could

 

[greatdivide46]

Yes, baptism is important. Jesus commanded His disciples to baptized people in the process of making disciples (Matthew 28:19-20). This passage tells us that baptism has a unique importance, that we are baptized into the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and that baptism is a new condition for becoming a disciple.

In Mark 16:16 Jesus tells us that baptism and faith and baptism and salvation are intimately linked together and that baptism is more like a promise than a command.

In John 3:3-5 we learn that baptism always includes water unless context indicates otherwise, that baptism is the entrance to the kingdom, and that as a result of baptism we are born again. This passage also indicates that baptism and salvation are intimately linked together.

In Acts 2:38-39 we learn that baptism and forgiveness are intimately linked together and that the gift of the Holy Spirit is given when we are baptized.

In Acts 22:16 we learn that baptism is washing away one's sins and that baptism is calling on the name of the Lord.

These are just a few of the passages that address baptism and what God does for us when we are baptized.

 

[Qnts2]

Water Baptism does not save. But it is important.

First, water baptism is a command, and we might not know why some commands are given, there are many things about water baptism we do know.

Water baptism is done by another believer, for the new believer. It is often done in front of other believers. Often, along with water baptism, the baptisee give a statement of faith.

So, other then simply obedience to a command, what does water baptism accomplish?

1. It is a recognition by a member of the church, that the person being baptised is saved, and a recognized member of the body of believers. (You are now recognized as a member of the assembly, having been made clean by the death, and resurrection of Jesus).

2. Scripture says we must confess with our mouths. Water Baptism is often the public announcement of our own faith in Jesus.

Romans 10:10
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Some people hide their faith, but this public confession is a committment to the Lord, and a bold declaration. Especially in light of the view of water baptism taken by non-Christians, and some churches as a conversion to another system of belief. It is taking the step of a 100% commitment to faith in Jesus alone.

 

[Optimax]

When one is lowered into the water during the "Water Baptizing Process".

By symbol of going under the water we are buried with Christ.

When we are raised up out of the water.

By symbol of being raised out of the water we are raised with Christ.

When one meditates on this, water baptism becomes a powerful event because of what it symbolizes.

It is an event remembered because of the actual experience of being "buried" and "raised" with Christ!

 

[jamadan]

As has been mentioned, Jesus didn't "advocate" water baptism, he commanded it. And we know that faith without works is dead. If we can't obey a simple command like that, then are we really saved?

 

[Qnts2]

As has been mentioned, Jesus didn't "advocate" water baptism, he commanded it. And we know that faith without works is dead. If we can't obey a simple command like that, then are we really saved?

We can be saved without obeying a simple command like water baptism. That is the very unique thing about salvation. We don't have to be perfect to be saved. Some of us are downright thorny and ornery.

I am somewhat interested in the fact that many people somewhat bristle at water baptism. That includes me. When the idea first was presented to me, my thought was I had been a believer for almost 2 years. Why be water baptised. In the end, I decided to go ahead and do it, simply because scripture said to. For me, it did effect many other things, in that my former religion rejected Jesus, and immersion to them is a formal conversion to belief in Jesus. It was a statement of commitment to Jesus, to be baptised in the face of rejection.

 

[jamadan]

We can be saved without obeying a simple command like water baptism. That is the very unique thing about salvation. We don't have to be perfect to be saved. Some of us are downright thorny and ornery.

Can we? Really? If we refuse the Lord this simple command, have we truly accepted Him as Lord? I don't think many understand the nature of salvation as being one of a Covenant which requires both faith and obedience. Faith without works is dead, in that it does not accomplish eternal life. If we can't obey something like the command to be baptized, then are we not demonstrating that our faith is dead as we're unwilling to submit to the Lord? Seems to me this is like the young rich man that Jesus sent away because he refused to obey Jesus' instruction to sell all he had and give to the poor. Jesus said he wouldn't inherit the Kingdom of Heaven because of his refusal to let go of his money. I think this is one of the root causes of why Christians are often no different than the world - same rate of depression, divorce, etc. We tend to come to Him for salvation , but are unwilling to surrender our lives to Him as Lord. We then fool ourselves into thinking we're saved. I don't recall thorney and ornery as being fruit of the Spirit.

 

[Yitzchak]

This passage should put to rest the idea that we do not need to be baptized because we are righteous without baptism. Jesus was without sin and perfectly righteous and yet felt a need to be baptized. If Jesus need to be baptized , then we cannot use as an excuse the fact that we are already righteous without baptism.

Mat 3:13 Jesus left Galilee and went to the Jordan River to be baptized by John.
Mat 3:14 But John kept objecting and said, "I ought to be baptized by you. Why have you come to me?"
Mat 3:15 Jesus answered, "For now this is how it should be, because we must do all that God wants us to do." Then John agreed.
Mat 3:16 So Jesus was baptized. And as soon as he came out of the water, the sky opened, and he saw the Spirit of God coming down on him like a dove.
Mat 3:17 Then a voice from heaven said, "This is my own dear Son, and I am pleased with him."

The phrase we should do all that God wants us to do settles the issue.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

This passage should put to rest the idea that we do not need to be baptized because we are righteous without baptism. Jesus was without sin and perfectly righteous and yet felt a need to be baptized. If Jesus need to be baptized , then we cannot use as an excuse the fact that we are already righteous without baptism.

The phrase we should do all that God wants us to do settles the issue.

Yes!

 

[The Fire Rises]

Thank you everyone for your opinions; I read through each of them and appreciate the responses.

I noticed a debate about works and faith which I found very interesting, but I won't comment on that since this is supposed to be about baptism (although I'm planning on creating a thread on that subject in the near future)

Basically, this answered my question. My pastor said that it's not necessary to be baptized more than once, but he never said whether or not being baptized is necessary in of itself. It's a beatiful thing in that it symbolizes being "buried and rising with Christ." And frankly I suppose this is irrelevant to me now anyways since I've already been baptized.

I just hope that others who are struggling with this quesiton can find some answers.

 

[K2K]

Can we? Really? If we refuse the Lord this simple command, have we truly accepted Him as Lord? I don't think many understand the nature of salvation as being one of a Covenant which requires both faith and obedience. Faith without works is dead, in that it does not accomplish eternal life. If we can't obey something like the command to be baptized, then are we not demonstrating that our faith is dead as we're unwilling to submit to the Lord? Seems to me this is like the young rich man that Jesus sent away because he refused to obey Jesus' instruction to sell all he had and give to the poor. Jesus said he wouldn't inherit the Kingdom of Heaven because of his refusal to let go of his money. I think this is one of the root causes of why Christians are often no different than the world - same rate of depression, divorce, etc. We tend to come to Him for salvation , but are unwilling to surrender our lives to Him as Lord. We then fool ourselves into thinking we're saved. I don't recall thorney and ornery as being fruit of the Spirit.

Jn 12:47 If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

We are saved by faith!! If we have faith we listen to Him and believe He is God. That was what was counted to Abram as righteousness, that is what is counted as righteousness to us, and not perfection. If we hear from Him and believe we will do what He says, but will we do it perfectly?

He came to save the world, so He came to get us to act and believe like Abram. Abramham did not do everything perfectly, but Abramham did hear from God, believe, and he did do things God asked him to do. So hearing the Lord by faith and with faith is enough. That is counted to you as righteousness, and whether you did everything He said or not does not come under judgement!!

 

[SilenceInMotion]

Baptism is best described as a signature to be a child of God. It does not determine your fate alone.
However, there is a bit of complexity to that. If you are aware of what baptism is, then it is in your best interest to get baptized. Otherwise, you are knowingly NOT signing that agreement.

 

[ServantJohn]

Jn 12:47 If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

We are saved by faith!! If we have faith we listen to Him and believe He is God. That was what was counted to Abram as righteousness, that is what is counted as righteousness to us, and not perfection. If we hear from Him and believe we will do what He says, but will we do it perfectly?

He came to save the world, so He came to get us to act and believe like Abram. Abramham did not do everything perfectly, but Abramham did hear from God, believe, and he did do things God asked him to do. So hearing the Lord by faith and with faith is enough. That is counted to you as righteousness, and whether you did everything He said or not does not come under judgement!!

"If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment--what to say and what to speak. And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me."
(Joh 12:47-50 ESV)

"Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge."
(Joh 8:50 ESV)

 

[Optimax]

Baptism is best described as a signature to be a child of God. It does not determine your fate alone.
However, there is a bit of complexity to that. If you are aware of what baptism is, then it is in your best interest to get baptized. Otherwise, you are knowingly NOT signing that agreement.

What scripture is used to back the "signing an agreement" statement?

 

[Qnts2]

For a different kind of discussion, I often put in my own description of the new covenant. I don't know if this will add anything but I'll see if this is any addition to the discussion.

In scripture, there are many different covenants. The first being the covenant with Adam, where the single condition for Adam was that he was not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. There were two covenants of Noahs time. And then there are three covenants with Abraham. Of course the Mosaic covenant, and the New Covenant.

To start, there are basically two kinds of covenants. One would be unilateral. One covenant with Abraham was that God would give Abraham and his descendents, thru Isaac, a piece of land.

Genesis 15:7 And He said to him, “I am the Lord who brought you out of (J)Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land to possess it.” 8 He said, “O Lord God, how may I know that I will possess it?” 9 So He said to him, “Bring Me a three year old heifer, and a three year old female goat, and a three year old ram, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.” 10 Then he brought all these to Him and cut them in two, and laid each half opposite the other; but he did not cut the birds.

The term is cutting a covenant as the Hebrew word, brit(bris) means to cut. In a covenant at that time, the parties coming into a covenant relationship would cut animals in two, and would walk together thru the animals, stating the conditions of their covenant. It is like saying, if I do not fulfill my obligations to this covenant/contract, let me be cut as these animals are cut. A bilateral covenant has obligations for all parties entering the covenant.

Genesis 15:
12 Now when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, terror and great darkness fell upon him. 13 God said to Abram, “Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, where they will be enslaved and oppressed four hundred years. 14 But I will also judge the nation whom they will serve, and afterward they will come out with many possessions. 15 As for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you will be buried at a good old age. 16 Then in the fourth generation they will return here, for the iniquity of the Amorite is not yet complete.”
17 It came about when the sun had set, that it was very dark, and behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a flaming torch which passed between these pieces. 18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying,
“To your descendants I have given this land,
From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates:


So, God alone passed thru the parts. That is a unilateral covenant, meaning only one 'person' is bound to complete the conditions of the covenant. Abraham had asked how he would know his descendents would possess the land. God alone was the guarantor, and if God failed, he would be cut. Of course, with God as the sole guarantor, it is as good as done. (Prophesies in the OT are often said in past tense or completed tense even though they were future events. That is like saying God said it and it is as good as done).

On the other hand, the Mosaic covenant was a bi-lateral covenant, with God committing to do certain things based on the actions of the children of Israel, and the people of Israel accepting the covenant by responding, 'we will do all that you say'.

Now, what about the New Covenant? It is a unilateral covenant, with Jesus commiting to do all that was needed.

What is works? The definition can best be found in the OT as the Mosaic covenant defines works based on the Sabbath, when work was to cease. Works are outward actions. Making money, starting a fire, gathering food, carrying a burden. But, they are allowed to have faith, pray, read... Is Baptism as work? Yes. Baptism is a part of the Mosaic law and is considered a work. No person was to go to the Baptism (mikvah) on the Sabbath. So Jesus did all of the work to make the New Covenant and it's benefits available, and all we need is believe (faith) which is not a work.

 

[jamadan]

Now, what about the New Covenant? It is a unilateral covenant, with Jesus commiting to do all that was needed.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Just look at this topic: water baptism. It demonstrates and fulfills our Covenant in which we are lowered into the water as death to self, and lifted from the water as living for Christ. What does that really mean? Dying to self and allowing Christ to live through us is our part of the Covenant. Jesus atoned for our sins paying the price we couldn't pay, but the price we pay is our lives. Anything short of that is rejected. Again, look at the rich young man. He was rejected. Think about it. Why was he rejected? He had faith. Isn't that all that's needed? Apparently not, as Jesus demonstrated. Our faith has to be matched by laying down our lives and being willing to obey the Lord in all things.

What if you have someone come to you and say he's a contract killer, but he put his faith in Jesus. When you tell him he needs to stop killing, he says he's not willing to stop killing. Even after you show him Scripture saying 'thou shall not commit murder', he says he won't stop. Is his faith real and backed by his actions (works/obedience) and yielded will and therefore able to save him? Or is his faith without works and thus unable to save him?

This should not be hard. The Holy Spirit is telling you this is true, but a lifetime of false teachings on God's grace and salvation are making your mind resist the truth.

 

[JimB]

As has been mentioned, Jesus didn't "advocate" water baptism, he commanded it. And we know that faith without works is dead. If we can't obey a simple command like that, then are we really saved?

Hmmm. Are there exceptions? Does this command include the water baptism of paraplegics, people suffering from aquagenic urticaria (allergy to water) or aguaphobia (fear of water) or mental illness, or people who are saved but live in the desert or the frozen arctic where there is not enough water to baptize them? If there is no one around to baptize you, can you baptize yourself? Can a pagan baptize you? Etc. Etc. This can get complicated (as works always is).