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How important is it to be baptized by water?

Qnts2

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Jan 31, 2012
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I was using Ambrose's statements regarding confession of mortal vs venial sins to cite the beliefs I am referring to. The timing is at the beginning of the Constantine changes, which really begin what most people consider as the Roman era of the Church. No doubt about it though, once the Temple was detroyed in 70 AD and the Church scattered, it began the shift to Roman centered due to the size of that Church (30,000), the infuence of the Roman culture in the world, and the fact that both Peter and Paul travelled to Rome at the end of their lives to provide leadership for the entire Church from that base of operations. But let's not lose cite that the maturing of the Church from those formative years migrating away from Jewish centric was not necessarily a bad thing. Paul's theology and oral traditions paved the way there. The liturgical nature of the Church, with bishops, priests and deacons, the liturgy of the Eucharistic service (the Mass), etc were all birthed while the apostles were presiding over the Church and were modelled from Jewish practices (the Passover, Temple priests, etc), as well as the visions that John experienced of Heaven (Revelation). John was known to be the first to have worn the bishop's mitre and his teachings and influence were a tremendous influence of bringing some uniformity across East and West in the form the liturgy of the Eucharistic Mass. So much of what people think of as "Catholic" actually had it's root right there with the Apostles.

Honestly, this history is from the view of the liturgical church, and in my view has flaws. The Catholic church claims apostolic succession to substantiate the authority of the pope, but I consider that seriously flawed also.

From my perspective, the Eurcharist/mass is actually a corrupted imitation of Jewish practices. What is done in the mass would be strictly forbidden in the Temple, and at Passover.

We are definitely coming from far ends with extremely different views.
 
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Veritas238

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Romans 6, one of the most important chapters in the NT, was not about water, we actually literally were placed, planted KJV, into Christ, we literally died and rose spiritually IN HIM, there is no room for symbolism in 6, and the born again experience described in 6, can happen, and does happen without a body of water.

3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

How can you really say Romans 6 is not about water baptism when linked with other scripture... such as Colossians 2:12 -- Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Its even the same language of being buries AND risen.
 
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