daneel said:
No. You need to look through the perspective of God.
1. Jesus fulfilled it.
2. Jesus said, "It is finished".
3. Jesus completed the Fathers will.
I AM looking at it throught the perspective of God. It was Jesus that said that not one jot or tittle of the law would pass away until ALL was fulfilled. Then He said that the time of punishment was to fulfill ALL that had been written. How can you interpret that any other way. What do you think the ALL was? He said "ALL THAT'S BEEN WRITTEN". Doesn't that mean the OT scriptures?
Yes, the LAW commanded them to go there. They also had the Scriptures that foretold of the Christ. They had the Christ in front of them and totally rejected Him.
What you're not getting is that as long as the law was in effect for those UNBELIEVING Jews, they had the command of God to go and offer sacrifices. God had to show them that the LAW was GONE. They had no reason to believe Jesus was the true sacrifice of God if the temple still stood. Stop and look at this through Jewish eyes.
The jews had obvious proof that the Messiah had come. It is with such hardness of heart they rejected Him.
It is obvious proof to US....but not to a 1st century Jew. They had the LAW that commanded them to go to the TEMPLE. They weren't going to just abandon the law without some kind of proof that Jesus was really the sacrifice of God. Lots of Jewish zealots of that time died on Roman crosses. That didn't make Him special. Even Him rising from the dead didn't do it for them.....since the bible records that many OT saints rose from the dead when Jesus was on the cross. It took something MORE for those Jews to see. The Day of Pentecost opened alot of eyes...but still the nation as a whole rejected Him. BUt when Jesus destroyed the temple and nation in 70AD....THAT was God's final word to the JEWS that there was ANOTHER WAY to forgiveness besides the temple sacrifices. That was the FULFILLMENT of ALL THAT HAD BEEN WRITTEN.....therefore the law (old covenant) could now pass away
Grace would now abound, and the Law was done away. The new covenant for Israel.
The Old covenant was done away.
Can you show me where it says that the old covenant was done away with when Jesus died on the cross. In Hebrews (which was written AFTER the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Jesus) it says in chapter 8 in regards to the old covenant...
7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8But God found fault with the people and said:
"The time is coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a
new covenant
with the
house of Israel
and with the
house of Judah.
9It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.
10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12
For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."
13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging
will soon disappear.
Notice Paul doesn't say it HAS disappeared, but that it will SOON disappear. He was talking about the Old Covenant. He says that God has made it obsolete and since it is obsolete it will SOON DISAPPEAR. So at that point it had not yet disappeared.....and this was written after Jesus had already ascended to heaven.
You're going to need to differentiate between what Jesus fulfilled and what prophecy regarding the wrath of God is fulfilled. It does'nt add validity to temple worship and sacrifice there.
Jesus said the time of punishment was IN FULFILLMENT OF ALL THAT'S BEEN WRITTEN. He didn't say some, or most, or certain prophecies or only prophecies regarding the wrath of God....He said that when the punishment occurred that it would FULFILL IT ALL. Yes, Jesus fulfilled MANY of the prophecies and ALL of them concerning the Messiah were fulfilled by Him, but there were MANY MORE prophecies than just those. The OT prophecies surrounding the coming of Messiah also talked about a time of great wrath and judgement....when God would set up His eternal kingdom. THOSE prophecies had to be fulfilled as well, before the law could pass away. Jesus said not ONE JOT OR TITTLE WOULD PASS FROM THE LAW UNTIL
ALL WAS FULFILLED. That happened in 70AD.
The difference between temple stuff and Grace is Jesus
The difference between temple "stuff" and grace, according to scripture was that ALL the law had to be fulfilled so that the New Covenant of grace could be ushered in. Jesus said it was ALL fulfilled in 70AD.
Ok....can you show me where any of the disciples or Paul went to the temple to offer sacrifices? THey went to the temple to preach, yes.
Can you show me where they did NOT offer any sacrifices when they went? Even Jesus was baptized to "fulfill all righteousness". That was according to the OT law. Why would He subject Himself to the OT law if He didn't expect His disciples to? Until the law "passed away" it was still in effect. It couldn't pass away until it was ALL fulfilled (according to Jesus)....and it was ALL fulfilled during the time of punishment (according to Jesus)....hence THAT is when it passed away....in 70AD at the fall of the temple.
Hey, I'm just going with what Jesus plainly says. I don't try to ignore what He says and run with something else.
Did Paul teach of the Law still in full effect? Or did he teach something else?
He taught it was soon to pass away according to the verses in Hebrews I posted above. He said that Jesus nailed it to the cross. He said that faith actually uphold the law. He tells Christians that they are no longer under the supervision of the law....but NOWHERE does he say that the OT law had all been fulfilled or that it had passed away. As a matter of fact in Hebrews he says that it will "soon pass away". It did.....15 or so years later.
Still, the unblemished Lamb of God had pleased God.
Yes, He did. God was NEVER pleased with the OT sacrifices yet THE LAW DEMANDED THEM.
There is some significance when Jesus asked, "Who do people say I am?" And it was Peter who said, "You are the Son of God."
Much significance. Your point?
You're forgetting that many Jews were converted by Jesus in His time. Many heard and followed.
But there are many who heard and did'nt follow.
Do you really think those that heard Him, saw Him, and rejected Him have validity in God's eyes for validity in temple stuff???
I'm not forgetting it. I know many heard and believed. But the nation as a whole had MANY prophecies that had to be fulfilled for Jesus to be proven as the true Messiah. ALL the OT had to be fulfilled or the law couldn't pass away.
And NO, I told you that God wasn't pleased or satisfied with the temple sacrifices EVER....but the LAW DEMANDED THEM. THe Jews HAD TO OBEY THE LAW until it passed away and was fulfilled. Jesus said that happened during the time of punishment.
No, salvation is for 'whosoever'. We have a much larger perspective with which to see.
Of course salvation is for whoever. I never said it wasn't. But that salvation wasn't taken to the Gentiles until Jesus had already ascended and then He appeared to Paul and gave him a special commission to go to the Gentiles.
The Jews expected the Messiah. Their perspective was quite limited with Him standing in front of them. Their rejection of Him through hardness of heart gives no validity in God's eyes as to temple stuff.
You are wrong. The law demanded that they continue to offer the sacrifices. THey had prophecies concerning the time of the end and the time of wrath. THose had to be fulfilled before the law could pass away and the new covenant could come. You need to look at this from a Jewish point of view.
Salvation is for all, both Jew and Gentile.
I didn't say otherwise. I said salvation is OF the Jews....not just FOR the Jews. Look it up.....it's what the bible says.
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