How Free will establishes FAITH... but what would I know.....

[rnmomof7]

Sufficient to be responsible for what choices we make concerning the Gospel.

One of the mysteries presented in the scripture is that God is sovereign over all the actions of men.. and yet man is still responsible.. how is that ? I have no idea.. but yes God "orders" if you will everything that occurs for His purposes.. He does not change His plans and directions to fit with "current events" ..He never changes nor do His plans
We make the "choice " of our country's leaders..and yet we know that He has ordered the winner ..

Having distinct limits and constraints upon us doesn't utterly preclude free agency.

I guess I would be interested in how you define "free agency" ... Just how free are the choices of any man.. physically or spiritually?

And your point is?
No one is denying God the right to anything (I'm not, anyway). God has so ordained things such that we have the freedom to choose how we will respond to His saving work in us. He has made us response-able and thus responsible for our choices, but this in no way wrests a right away from God; it simply observes what is true.

So do you think God has ordained that He not be sovereign over those that He adopts?
Think about the language that is used in the scripture about those that are His.. "the elect" "the predestined" "adopted" "sheep" ... none of those indicate that He was chosen ... but that the choice was His..

 

[charsan]

Most of us could never choose to be brain surgeons .

Of course we could, we can choose anything. Now that does not mean we can do it. But brain surgery, yep just get educated and boom your a brain surgeon.

Serious question , can you chose something that is not available to you? Can you choose to sprout wings and fly? We could not choose our sex, our parents, our place of birth.. Most of us could never choose to be brain surgeons .We can only make choices from what is available to us.. God determine that not us..

As Paul taught ...Acts 17 :26
and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,

Your not going to change my mind with silly things, in fact you will not change my mind at all. We choose to follow God or not, period. Calvinism makes man into robots by taking free choice away to follow God or not, because they view original sin wrongly. Really you can stop now and I can stop because we are not going to move each other's position.

 

[rnmomof7]

Of course we could, we can choose anything. Now that does not mean we can do it.

Exactly it is a false choice.. you really can not choose it, you may want it or desire it but it is to an option for you

But brain surgery, yep just get educated and boom your a brain surgeon.

First you must be born with the intelligence and fine motor skill set necessary.. and those are not choices

Your not going to change my mind with silly things, in fact you will not change my mind at all. We choose to follow God or not, period.

Why would men not choose in their best interest?

Calvinism makes man into robots by taking free choice away to follow God or not, because they view original sin wrongly. Really you can stop now and I can stop because we are not going to move each other's position.

Does God have free choice?

 

[charsan]

We all have free choice and that is the end of this conversation, you will never convince me. Be blessed

 

[rnmomof7]

We all have free choice and that is the end of this conversation, you will never convince me. Be blessed

Just something to think about and consider..either God is sovereign or not..


Can God sin? Can he violate His nature

 

[charsan]

Just something to think about and consider..either God is sovereign or not..


Can God sin? Can he violate His nature

Well actually it comes down to how the two sides see what you might call original sin. Reformed folk and many western Christians indeed, see it in a legal framework but not all do. The Orthodox don't and neither do I while we all suffer the fall we do not inherit Adam's guilt nor are we totally depraved. There is still good in us all even those who we don't think there could be. We have the moral free choice to follow God or not. You ask if God is sovereign and I answer yes. Do humans have freewill, yes. This is a divine paradox but the reformed wants answers so they make one but I am fine not knowing any answer but to know that is how God ordained the situation. God created a universe where He knew what was going to happen but also gave man free will, a true paradox.

A great quote by St. Cyril of Jerusalem:

"It is for God to grant His grace, your task is to accept that grace and to guard it"

and from St. John Chrysostom:

"All depends indeed on God, but not so that our free-will is hindered. [God] does not anticipate our choice, lest our free-will be outraged. But when we have chosen, then great is the assistance He brings to us."

Source:

An Eastern Orthodox View of Calvinism — Classical Christianity

May you all have a happy and blessed Christmas

 

[rnmomof7]

Well actually it comes down to how the two sides see what you might call original sin. Reformed folk and many western Christians indeed, see it in a legal framework but not all do. The Orthodox don't and neither do I while we all suffer the fall we do not inherit Adam's guilt nor are we totally depraved. There is still good in us all even those who we don't think there could be. We have the moral free choice to follow God or not. You ask if God is sovereign and I answer yes. Do humans have freewill, yes. This is a divine paradox but the reformed wants answers so they make one but I am fine not knowing any answer but to know that is how God ordained the situation. God created a universe where He knew what was going to happen but also gave man free will, a true paradox.

A great quote by St. Cyril of Jerusalem:

"It is for God to grant His grace, your task is to accept that grace and to guard it"

and from St. John Chrysostom:

"All depends indeed on God, but not so that our free-will is hindered. [God] does not anticipate our choice, lest our free-will be outraged. But when we have chosen, then great is the assistance He brings to us."

Source:

An Eastern Orthodox View of Calvinism — Classical Christianity

May you all have a happy and blessed Christmas

That really does not answer my point.. either God is sovereign or he is not.. either He knows the end from the beginning or He does not ...

Does God have 'free will"?We are made in His image

 

[DennisTate]

That really does not answer my point.. either God is sovereign or he is not.. either He knows the end from the beginning or He does not ...

Does God have 'free will"?We are made in His image

Or... could it be that God has set up many, many, many, many different endings all of which are so vastly better than what we have seen on this earth so far??????


Multiverse Theory, multiple Ezekiel 37 events and the unification of Calvinism with Universalism?