How Does Satan Attack Us?

[Buck72]

Who said anything about totally disregarding the Bible?

You did.

Do you find something amusing about my chosen alias. Or do you simply like to jab at your opponents instead of having a conversation?

No, that was a typographical error on my part. I apologize again...sorry.

My God is love. Because Jesus symbolized love, I belive in Jesus.

Amen. So do I. I get accused about not being "loving" by many liberals, and one even referred me to 1 Cor 13...so I went there. I found this in the midst of love's definition:

1Co 13:6 (love) does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;

What is unrighteousness and what is truth? If the Bible is true, we have lots to talk about in this area.

Jesus also spoke, or did you not know that?

We're talking about the same Person. Jesus IS God.

Do you take pleasure in laughing at people. Very Christian of you.

Okay, sometimes I do, but hold on to that thought, you do the same thing further on...

Oh, and God laughs at those that reject Him, or is that not very Christian of Him?

Pro 1:22 "How long, O naive ones, will you love being simple-minded? And scoffers delight themselves in scoffing And fools hate knowledge? "Turn to my reproof, Behold, I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you. "Because I called and you refused, I stretched out my hand and no one paid attention; And you neglected all my counsel And did not want my reproof; I will also laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your dread comes, When your dread comes like a storm And your calamity comes like a whirlwind, When distress and anguish come upon you.

Pro 1:28 "Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; They will seek me diligently but they will not find me, Because they hated knowledge And did not choose the fear of the LORD. "They would not accept my counsel, They spurned all my reproof. "So they shall eat of the fruit of their own way And be satiated with their own devices. "For the waywardness of the naive will kill them, And the complacency of fools will destroy them.

Pro 1:33 "But he who listens to me shall live securely And will be at ease from the dread of evil."

I have yet to see any in good taste.

Now we have a legitimate opinion!!

That’s quite a little blanket statement you have there. Not all liberals trash the Bible.

Yes it is. MOST liberals that I've encountered in here do not care if the Bible contradicts their opinions, they, in turn accuse me of "misinterpretation" whereby I say: "hogwash". The liberals I do encounter that argue the "interpretation" bit are never capable of backing it up Biblically (ie: the gay bishop).

Another blanket statement. I don’t hate the Bible. I love the parts that talk about Jesus. I just tend to see parts about rapists marrying their victims (Deuteronomy 22:28-29), men forcing imprisioned women to marry them (Numbers 31:1-18), polygamy (Genesis 4:19), incest (genesis 19:32), and smashing babies as ((Isaiah 13:15-16)), rape ((Judges 19:24-25), Judges 19, Verse 25) not coinciding with my moral code. But that’s just me.

I'm not using laser-guided munitions here - so if blanket descriptions do not fit, then they are not directed at you.

This is tageted at you though; with reference to the highlighted portions of your above quote I must ask:

Is your morality greater than God's? Honestly. What is the point in that statement!?

No, we just choose not to to belive something blindly.

Here's some more blind stuff for you:

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.


The Greek word for "seen" is:

βλέπω
blepō

blep'-o

A primary verb; to look at (literally or figuratively): - behold, beware, lie, look (on, to), perceive, regard, see, sight, take heed. Compare G3700.

I reckon that if something is "not seen" that subjective viewpoint would then be blinded to that object; ie: "blind". Couple that with "faith" and you have "believing something blindly".

NEXT!

What about me? I’m not the one jabbing at people here. I’m not perfect by far, but I try to to be arrogant.

There is a difference between arrogance and right. If a person gloats in themselves as the source of knowledge, they are arrogant. If another gloats in something outside themselves (the Bible) as being right, they are NOT arrogant because they are not claiming to have anything of their own, nor are they seeking to gain anything by the gesture.

And I am NOT perfect, my jabs are not meant to hurt...I'm learning too and I'm sorry for jabbing insomuch as it takes from the message. My zeal is for the message, to the point of arguing all else contrary to the message is rubbish.

Validate my point? Take a look at people like Fred Philips, then you’ll see what I mean.

Who's that?

My mirror’s not clogged or covered at all. Is yours?

My mirror is the Bible. What are you using?

I see myself plainly enough through the relection of the lens of love… where do you fit in?

Define love. There are many kinds of love, not all of them are good.

2Ti 3:1 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.

I think it could be concidered rude to ask someone that question in a forum like this.

I've asked if you've read you Bible, that is not rude unless I stepped on some spiritual pride that you may be hiding. Here's why I asked; you do not seem to have a strong basis to argue these points, but claim that my interpretation is purely subjective when I quote it for you in black and white.

O that ALL men and women of faith would ask one another if they've read the Bible!!! What a mighty Church we could become!!!

WHY THE OFFENSE!? HOW IS THAT RUDE!?

We stand at the precipice of Hell as billions walk the broad road to destruction daily while we sip our coffee and take offense that someone would challenge us to greater faith!?

WHAT IS THE CHURCH HERE FOR!? TO GLORIFY OURSELVES OR TO GLORIFY GOD!?

Sorry, but I laughted when I read that. You sound like a cheerleader.

I thought you said laughing wasn't christian. You've just broken your own moral code that you've argued is too good for the icky parts of the Word of God.

I'm playing games here...but only to prove a point. You can figure it out on your own I'm certain.

Thanks for the dictionary definition.

Hey, I play by the rules. I define my terms, back up my claims, and argue the truth based on the Word of God.

I meant someone “bad” as in… murder, rape, stealing, etc… which I hope to God I never do. I didn’t mean “bad” as in every day “bad”. Of course I’m not perfect, far from it.

It's all the same. There are no differing standards of "bad". That is a man-made line of nonsense by which he/she can excuse small sin from big sin. Look what the Bible says:

Mat 5:27-28 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY'; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I just cheated on my wife this afternoon when I looked at a picture of Katie Holmes and thought: "whoa!". I neither meant ill to my wife, nor did I even get to meet Katie in person, BUT in my heart I committed the act. I bear the full weight of guilt without uttering a word or making a motion.

2Co 10:12 For we are not bold to class or compare ourselves with some of those who commend themselves; but when they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are without understanding.

I contest that liberal (most liberals) do this when they form ecclesias based upon notional concepts of subjective relativism rather than the crytal clear holy word of the Almighty LIVING GOD.

I detect the tone of sarcasm here.

No. No sarcasm. I'm tired of seeing people attempt to legitimize sin and tell me that God says it's okay when He does not. Gene Robinson is WRONG to think he can be a gay bishop...that is clearly, CLEARLY sin. It is this relativistic attitude that is prompting these kinds of threads.

I want to see believers asking themselves questions like: "what is sin?" So that we may grow in Christ as FUNCTION as a church is a dying world.

If I need a book to tell me that killing a baby, raping someone, or other such things are wrong, thank I’d worry about myself.

You miss the point again. The Bible does not shock the human soul that was made in the image of God that "murder is wrong". The Bible shocks the human soul when it digs deeper into the center of the very being where the thoughts originate long, long before the murder is ever carried out.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Heb 4:13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

 

[BarbB]

Satan attacks us when we do not read and know the Bible in our hearts.

Even Jesus used the scriptures in his own defense when tempted by Satan in the wilderness.

 

[Boanerge]

In the Name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit.

Open eyes, let us not stray from the truth.

IF you have any questions PLEASE pm me and let me know.

(1) Introduction
(2) Who believes what?
(3) Flesh, Spirit, and Free Will
(4) Before the Beginning
(5) The Reality of Satan
(6) Conclusion

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
INTRODUCTION
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I see that Two Dominant CHILDREN OF GOD are in disagreement.

So, ill be the third. First i want to write what i know.

Then later on we can arrive at a final decision.

First the devil has no power over the Children of God, IF we leave our old ways. But if we stick to our old ways, then what did you overcome by meeting Jesus?

Reject Life and perish, simple.


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WHO BELIEVES WHAT?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now the arguement is the conflict between the belief in a strictly Unseen/Eternal Being Satan and a strictly Seen/Temporal Being Satan.

Our Flesh and worldly Desires are affected by the Seen Portion of Satan

And the Evil Thoughts and Works and Actions are affected by The Unseen Portion of Satan.

There is a Misconception that the Desires are caused by Spiritual things.
Its actually the other way around. Our Desires are caused by SEEN things.

And that The Works are caused by Physical things.
but infact our works are caused by UNSEEN Things.

(1) One would assume that Miss Firerose is against the Seen/Temporal Satan. Because she doesnt believe Satan goes around slipping thoughts into our minds. In other words non-existant.

(2) But she is in fact against the Unseen/Eternal Satan. Becuase she believes Satan is our sinful nature and worldly desires, and nothing more.

She Believes in the SEEN/Temporal part of Satan.
Our Sinful nature comes from the Physical portion of Satan.

This Flesh is Satan. (the SEEN part of Him.)

(1) One would assume that Bucky72 is against the Unseen/Eternal Satan, Because he doesnt believe that satan is our sinful nature and worldly desires. in other words our sinful nature is non-existant

(2) But he is in fact against the Seen/Temporal Satan. because he believes that Satan goes around slipping thoughts in our minds, and nothing more.

HE believes in the UNSEEN/Eternal part of Satan.
Our evil thoughts come from the Spritual portion of Satan.

I Want to add that Satan Is first Spiritual or UNSEEN, and THEN came the Phsyical, or SEEN.

Becuase of Satans evil thoughts darkness was, and God took that darkness and made us. Our flesh is the After effect of Satans evil thoughts. This is why Jesus wants us to deny the flesh, and adhere to The Spirit.

This is why its so easy for satan to make us do evil things, our flesh is a conductor of evil thoughts.

And if we are clinging to our flesh more than Gods Spirit then, we are no different than the Father of this flesh.

In the beginning, God breathed the Spirit of Life into this Worldly Flesh. So we are composed of Two things

Flesh and Spirit.

Everything has a Soul. the Soul is our individuality.

But the Difference between Man and Animal is that Spirit. that breath of Life, of Light, Breath of Truth.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FLESH, SPIRIT, FREE WILL
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When we are born our souls are glued to the Flesh, we are children of Satan. Satan exists in our lives as long as We continue to live in the Flesh. He can then manipulate us. We are His slaves and His pawns. In reality we dont know whats going on. STAY FOCUSED AND UNDERSTAND THIS: Satan doesnt force us to choose, we have free will. but he makes the Wrong seem right, and we has humans always want to do the right thing, right?

But when we Get baptised God seperates our souls from the Flesh and make us adhere to the Spirit, becoming Children of God. God is then our New Chess player. But What God does is Takes off the Veil of What satan says is right, and shows us that this is wrong. We then make the correct decision and choose the Right. Having Faith in God.

Satan doesnt always lie, he tells "Half-Truths" Like when you tell your mom, "Mom, me and stacy are going to the mall." And then in reality you go to the Mall and then go to the movies wit some boys. This is not a white lie, or some truth, its a lie plain and simple. Especially if you knew before hand that you were going to the movies, but intensionly didnt tell Mom because you knew mom will start to worry. Satan Made Eve slip, twisted words to make himself be right. When he noticed Eve said "Touch" he took advantaged. When Eve touched the Tree and didnt die, right there trust in the serpant was planted. From here the Serpent made God seem like a liar, now anything the Serpant says will seem right. Satan knew they will not die right away, so he told her "If you it of it you will not die" He also made her want to be like God, who was great and all powerful, this then would make anyone want to be like God. But God knew good and evil.. if you ask me i rather not be like God, because then i can see demons and feel the pain of a tortured soul. But we bit of the tree none the less. Now that Man knows both Good and Evil, the Serpent can start leading Man to evil.

Satan was not someone stupid to say "God is a LIAR! Eat of the TRee! eat it! hes a Liar!" No no no.. Satan first becomes your friend. Once he does that he turns allies into enemys, once that is completed he makes you a member of his losing team. But we wouldnt know, without God's wisdom, we wouldnt tell the difference between something wrong and something right. Without the Light to shine on the matter we would be lost.

So when God seperates us from the Flesh, Death; We then put to sleep the Flesh, Buried; and Live in the Spirit, Ressurection. This is the Baptism.

Now The flesh will want to awaken, but it can not over power us unless we allow it to.

Why did God Make us out of Darkness? Worldly Flesh? So that we can overcome the Darkness and shine the light above it.

In the Beginning, All God did was shine a light in darkness. This is Spiritual, it all happened in a Second. But in the Physical it happens in a billion years. This reality is the result of that small action.

Our spirit is that Light, and our Flesh is that Darkness.

Darkness is like a Shell. the Spirit is the Life within the Shell, and that Shell will hatch and Be no more. The Shell then becomes absolete. The Egg is the First birth, the Hatching is the Second Birth. Born again, of the Spirit. (John 3)

God in the beginning already saw whos going to win. Light of course.

 

[Boanerge]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BEFORE THE BEGINNING (Optional story)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A parable: Spiritual oriented Story.
Satan was back then, Lucifer. Like ALL angels, he was a Finger of God (Angels are like the Fingers of God), When God does things, he sends angels, or messengers, to carry his commands. Lucifer was to deliver the Seed of Life and Plant it in the core of Darkness, so that it can grow and the Seed then overcomes the Dark. That Seed is Jesus, made lower than the angels for this purpose.

Lucifer, as A vessal, carried the Seed to do his Mission. However, Like Humans- who are the seeds of that one Seed- did not know who gave us life and a free will. Lucifer also did not know that it is God that is making things happen and not himself. That seed is Life and Lucifer Had it. That Seed is Wisdom and Lucifer Had it. Yup, that Seed gave Lucifer a Free will. Lucifer then saw Darkness, and He noticed that he was the Most beautiful Angel in the Heavens. (but it was the light of the Seed that made him so). Lucifer then became Filled With Self-Pride, he did not want to plant the Seed. He wanted to keep it for himself. He was to go with his angels to create the world as God Commanded. Setting the Sun in its place, the Waters the Wind the Earth. But Then Lucifer, did not Want to give up the Seed. Such thought made Lucifer merge with Darkness. He felt that he was greater than everything. Not realising that it was the SEED within him that was giving him understanding on how the world should be organized. The Seed is the Word of God. Because the son of God was within Lucifer, Lucifer thought he was God. Now Lucifer was merging with darkness. The Seed however, can not be over powered. Like a Reptile, Lucifer then had to release the Seed, However he did not want too. So The Seed HATCHED out of Lucifer, like a Chicken hatching from the Egg. The Egg then becomes a Shell. Lucifer then became Satan. Now that the seed was out of him, he was no longer beautiful. His anger was against this Seed. For Satan knew, that The Seed of Light, will destroy Him. For by this Point, Satan is only pure darkness.

The Light then exploded with Life. And everything was set in motion. For This Seed will grow and overcome Darkness. This Seed of Light. Of Life, of God. Satan then went back to the Father and told the Father "The seed is planted, but can i watch life and make sure it grows straight?" But the Father knew Satans intentions. Plus he also knew that the Seed is growing in Darkness and whether God allowed Satan to be the commander down there on Earth or not, satan will still try to attack. So God said "It is so". Satan is not On Gods side, nor is he on our side, but like a High commander he still has to follow orders. So Satans mission is to subdue the Seed of Life, in order to turn off its light. Satan is the Angel of Death, the Angel with the Sword of Fire, the Evil Spirit of the Lord, Peniel, and so on..

Of course God then Sends another Angel, Michael to make sure Satan remains inline. And God sends Gabriel, to do what Satan "said" he would do, keep the sprout of light inline. Basically Michael is a warrior and Gabriel prophetic. But Heaven was getting crowded because of Satan and his evil intentions (to sustain darkness), and satan was getting out of control. But Once the Seed grows and completes its Mission God will Exalt Him and make Him ruler of Heaven and earth. Kicking Satan out of His spot as father of the earth. That seed is Jesus.

Before Jesus, the Word of God was a Spirit, upon people like Samuel, Samson, all he Sons of God. After Jesus, Jesus of Nazereth became the last Vessal of the Word of God. No other messiah. Jesus completes all the prophecies. Now we only await is return. But for now, before the Huge Physical battles, we are Fighting the Spiritual battles, against the principalities of Death.

So the Light(Seed, Word, Life) made Man in His image. using the Dirt, the World as a Cup to hold these second generation seeds.

And from Here On, the Word of God, is the Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, and Mighty God. The Son of God. The Word. We are Then sons of God. Because Through the Word we become co-heirs with Jesus. And we Inherit the Kingdom. But only if we overcome Darkness, With the Spirit as our helper. We are not of this world once we are baptised in Jesus, becoming a threat to the World, and Satan.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
THE REALITY OF SATAN
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Satan can be split into Two forms. Each Form splits into Two other types.

Yea it will get confusing so hang on tight.

Satan (Lucifer)
/ \
(Seen)Temporal (Unseen)Eternal
/ \ / \
Physical-Spiritual Physical-Spiritual

Now we know that Seen/Temporal is ALL of Reality and physical things.
Unseen/Eternal is ALL Imagination, Thoughts, Dreams and spiritual things.

The Confusing part is the understanding that Our thoughts are
Eternal things. well think about it, a thought can't be murdered.

The unseen is ETERNAL. they can not be destroyed. Energy is Spiritual, Unseen, it can not be destroyed

So What does God mean when he says he will destroy darkness and Satan, if Satan is Eternal?

This is why there is a Hell.

Spirits can not Exist and then all of a sudden NOT exist.
Anything that has Life, or Lived was Created by God. And being that God is eternal so are the things created by Him

So then how can God destroy darkness if It is eternal?

In the Beginning the world was formless and chaos and void.
God then said, Let there be light, and filled the world with his glory.
But upon Saying let there be light, God Made a Seperation,
Light and No Light.
No Light is then titled Darkness.
God will not make believe that NO Light Never was.
Or else he would be lying to himself.
No Light was, but Light overcame.
All that has no Light, is then casted away

Ladies and gentilemen, as real as darkness is. just as real satan is. But when we are Children of Satan, To God we Are satan. We represent Satan. But when we Are Children of God, to the world we are God. We Represent God. This is the Hardest part... To be Like God. Because First we fight with the fact that we are no longer of the world. Now we fight with the fact that we must be like God. This is not easy because
(1) we dont even know what it means to be Like GOD!!
(2) We dont know that we are redeemed through the blood of the lamb.

Some people will think i am mormon for saying we are to be like God.

But mormon believe the Flesh becomes God. I already made it clear that the Flesh is Darkness, it is the Spirit that matters. and the Spirit is unseen. So No we HUMANS in this FLESH do not become God. Because when we die, what happens? A God Dies? If God is Eternal, then a God can not die. So mormons are in the wrong.

Some people will think i deny Jesus is God. But the Body of Jesus is not God. Muslims don't understand this:

the Man Jesus is the ONLY Vessal of the Son of God. We know that the Word is God Himself. (No Not the Bible). Jesus, Did not find it a robbery to be Equal to God. Jesus was born not like us. Jesus was born with His Soul as the Holy Spirit. Therefore He is God. So if the Man Jesus dies on the Cross, who died? The Flesh or the Spirit? Flesh is the Sin. Jesus was not One with the Flesh. We on the other hand are born with our souls one with the Flesh. We are born Sinful. And Through Jesus, we can seperate from the Flesh and be one with the Spirit. Cleaned. becoming equal to Jesus. Sons of God. However we are One in Faith, for we have not ressurected yet. So it is possible to get dirty again. Our purpose is Not to get dirty. and be holy. So what died on that cross? Sin died on that cross. the Flesh of Jesus, His body, The Lamb, the Sacrifice. the Priest? The Word of God Himself. You guys should know by know that Son of God and Word of God are one in the same.

That is why Jesus can never fall into sin, because He was not of Darkness. He was sinless. the Son of God.

1:15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
1:16 because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy.

So if you find yourself still sinning, and you are fully aware that you are sinning, but continue to sin because you think its ok since you were always a sinner. You did not Bury the sin. BAsically your still on the cross!!!

People who are saints, like paul says, are those who buried the sin and live in faith, ressurected as new people in christ.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
CONCLUSION
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So Yea satan can still trick us, and will continue to put false road blocks in our lives. But those still on the cross, will keep being fooled, while those ressurected as new people in Christ will overcome.

So guess what- you both are right.

To Sinning Christians, they only see themselves as the fault. Satan only plants you with questions, its what you do with them that puts you at fault.

But to struggling christians, they see satan giving them questions, and they can rebuke him in the name of Jesus.

Satan presents a Christian with good things, as a posed to true things.

And if one chooses what they think is right over what they know is right,
then your going to get yourself into a huge hole, which the decision maker dug themselves, satan just provided the shovel.

I would say that Bucky72 sees a bit more deeper.

BUT You can see the speck in others eyes, but there is a Huge Log in yours.

So Do something about your anger buddy. There is a testimony the the Enemy is trying to destroy. At the same time making ALL christians look bad.

As For Miss Firerose, No you are not in sin for the rest of your life. You can overcome. You are at fault of your actions. But you are also in control of all your decisions.

Sometimes we must sacrifice the good, for the better. and being of God is WAY better then being of the World!

 

[tulc]

Wow that was a lot of typing.
tulc

 

[James Sez]

I agree with tulc. You typed a whole lot of words.

 

[Brother Owl]

Amen! This is the important point that I wish to post here. Satan deceives. How does he deceive? And how is one aware that they are being deceived?

1Ch 21:1-3 Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel. So David said to Joab and to the princes of the people, "Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan, and bring me word that I may know their number." Joab said, "May the LORD add to His people a hundred times as many as they are! But, my lord the king, are they not all my lord's servants? Why does my lord seek this thing? Why should he be a cause of guilt to Israel?"

1. Satan causes the believer to trust in him/herself and not the word of God.

Job 1:9-12 Then Satan answered the LORD, "Does Job fear God for nothing? "Have You not made a hedge about him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. "But put forth Your hand now and touch all that he has; he will surely curse You to Your face." Then the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him." So Satan departed from the presence of the LORD.

Zec 3:1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.

2. Satan accuses the believer before God, knowing that he can wrest our faithfulness to God by attacking our possessions, familiy, or health.

Mat 4:5-7 Then the devil *took Him into the holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple, and *said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, 'HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU'; and 'ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP, SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.'" Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"

**Notice how Christ defeats Satan...with the Word of God! "It is written.."

3. Satan misuses, misinterprets, obfuscates, warps, and twists the word of God to acheive a desired effect over the believer; the conversion of truth for a lie. This is, by far the greatest deception. Eve was deceived by the serpent, who openly challenged the word of God, causing her to doubt what the word REALLY said:

Gen 3:1-4 Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?" The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'" The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!

Did you notice that Eve added words to God's original word? Check it out:

Gen 2:16-17 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Eve did not know the word of God, and she fell into deception.

Read on to Romans 1 about the chain of deception that beguiles the deceived...

Rom 1:25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

2Co 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

4. Satan masquerades as a church leader, bishop, deacon, etc, etc. Christ says that we will know them by their fruits. I ask, how can we know the difference between good and bad fruit if we fail to find that definition in the word?

Q: Is a gay bishop an example of "bad fruit"?

1Th 2:18 For we wanted to come to you--I, Paul, more than once--and yet Satan hindered us.

5. Satan hinders the believer and delays the progress of the faith.


2Th 2:8-10 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

2Th 2:11-12 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

6. Satan can mimic signs and wonders to astonish the unbelivers (believers too) into following a lie (see Rom 1).

Q: What are we doing as a collective of believers to thwart the attacks of Satan?

Loved this post! Thanks! God Bless!

 

[Brother Owl]

Miss Firerose, I have used scripture to substantiate my posts within this thread. You, on the other hand prefer the liberal guise of showering us with multiple short reponses with such depth as: "In your opinion".

FORGET OPINION. OPINIONS DIE WITH THE OPINIONATOR. WHAT DOES THE WORD OF GOD SAY?

Your post had zero reference to the word of God.



Sister, did you read, or comprehend my statement? Because it appears that either I failed to communicate effectively, OR you failed to understand me, either way, allow me to clarify:

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS UNDERESTIMATED IN TODAY'S SOCIETY.

That means it is not given due regard.

This includes the church. People are looking for other's to blame. I was arguing that we bear the burden for our actions, but to the believer tempation comes via three distinct channels:

1. Our flesh (James 1:14)
2. The world (1 John 2:15-17)
3. Satan (1 Cor 7:5)

I'd like to respond to your statement, but I must confess I have no idea what you were trying to communicate.



Here's my one of my biggest challenges to liberal Christians:

"I think" - does not fit into the realm of ABSOLUTE truth that Christ has provided us with His word. It is a rudderless method to maintain course on the straight and narrow and provides ZERO guidance to matters of obedience to Christ and the practice of the faith.

WHAT DOES THE WORD OF GOD SAY?



My point is rapidly being demonstrated here.



Who says they went anywhere? Have you been outside this country to see how the rest of the world lives in 24/7 awareness of spirits, demons, and forces of darkness? Take a mission trip to Africa and then you'll not have to worry about where they went, you'll know. Western culture does not experience the overt activity seen in Africa/Asia, we're too busy worshipping materialism, money, success, career, etc. We have already sold out our spirituality for the $. The enemy doesn't have to be too tough with us...just enough pressure to keep us from catching a clue and being saved from all of this horrendous mess.




This is a Christian Forum right? You want to get into a big debate sister? No Bible? Tell me Miss "Firerose"...who is your God? My God spoke the WORD OF GOD and made it possible for me to hold, read, learn, speak, live, AND QUOTE anytime, anyplace. You honor your liberal peers with "Bible Censorship" - even in this Christian Forum! HA-HA-HA!!!!

Please excuse my conservative wit - I see and hear liberals trash the Bible day in day out...they hate the Bible because it tells them how to live and its answers are simple, concise, and claim to be absolute (thus irrefutable). That idea is abominable to the average liberal seeking to "liberate" themselves from such pale drudgery. (See Rom 1).

Maybe you could simply write your own Bible?




Once again the communication process is broken down:

WHERE DID YOU DRAW THIS CONCLUSION FROM? Certainly not from anything posted in this thread.



What about you then.....hmmmm? Validate your point please, or turn the mirror around.

I can see myself plainly enough through the reflection and lens of scripture...where do you fit in?



Where do you get this stuff? Have you read your Bible? Satan is a spiritual being. Get it? S-P-I-R-I-T means: extra-dimensional, non-tangible, fleshless, indescript, unobervable, "ghost-like" (however, arguably that the spiritual plane is of a greater 'reality' than the 4-dimensional plane we exist in; see 2 Kings 6:17).



Satan took a THIRD of the angels from heaven. I'm not certain how many there were to begin with, but I'll wager a third is a lot.

What do you mean: "If I ever do something bad..."?

Are you aware of what sin even is? Read Exodus 20. Then ask yourself if you've done anything bad (have you ever LIED?), then confess it to Christ.

I'm getting tired of trying to tell you I, nor anyone in here has said: "blame satan for your sin".

He attacks through DECEPTION. Are you deceived? How do you know?

Check out how Christ answered the Pharisees regarding their influence of/by satan:

Joh 8:43 "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.

Joh 8:44 "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Joh 8:45 "But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.

Joh 8:46 "Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me?

Joh 8:47 "He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."

Brother, if I had a hat I'd take it off to you!

 

[Shekinahs]

I agree with tulc. You typed a whole lot of words.

Ditto that. I wonder about super long posts.

 

[Shekinahs]

In the Name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit.

Open eyes, let us not stray from the truth.

IF you have any questions PLEASE pm me and let me know.

(1) Introduction
(2) Who believes what?
(3) Flesh, Spirit, and Free Will
(4) Before the Beginning
(5) The Reality of Satan
(6) Conclusion

Ok, his post is sooooo long it needs an index and a conclusion

Gotta love people these days.

~ShekinahMoon~

 

[Boanerge]

LoL, im sorry, i was hoping i'll get alot of pms. No one ever reads my post. grr..

I can't be 100% right.

Plus i have been writing alot lately, i dont know where i get the energy to write so much!! lol.

Anyway when it comes to God, you can not risk opinions. You have to be sure of what you are believing in. Or else whats the point of believing. But once you are certain, then you have to learn self-control and how to go about your certainty.

Its better to be taught than to be told.

If you Trust God, you will Trust God that He lead them to understand.

You plant the seed, God provides the increase, we can't force it to grow.

oh and never leave home without your bible. lol

well not the literal bible underneath your arms like a deorderant, i mean the bible in your heart and mind. read, even if you don't understand yet, you will soon. Dont lose faith.

The Bible is the Basis, but Life itself is full of Lessons.

 

[MissFirerose]

1. I do read scripture

The basis of our conversation is on reading scripture, I never assumed you didn’t.

2. Strangely enough, I do not have to "add" my own interpretation to it, it is all-inclusive. The Bible is its own interpretation so long as it is within the context. I ask you to show me where I have "added my own interpretation" - Please ma'am, show me, show me, show me.

Answer this, sir. What are words? Would you say, “concepts”, “ideas”? True, if one asks what a word is about. But, what is a word literally? A sound. Marks on a paper. So what is the literal meaning of a word? Nothing. Literally, a word is meaningless. Words have meaning only as we interpret their meanings. Without interpretation there is no meaning, and without meaning, there is no communication.

By whose definition? To the Pharisees He was a heretic and worthy of death. I challenge you to call Him "liberal" here:

Sounds to me like that’s more of a case of hypocrisy than rebellion.

Jesus was more concerned with how we treated each other than by black and white rules and words. I challenge you to call Him a fundamentalist here:

"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:36-40

Sounds like He’s real concerned with strict obedience and Bible thumping….

I agree, except for the "interpretation" and the "power trip" part. I am powerless, Christ is powerful and His word is powerful. Those who choose to disregard the truth are making an error, I am merely an agent of truth who wants to correct the error.

But it’s still your interpretation of the truth. How does that make it any more valid than any other person’s?

Hey, if it says: "homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of God" like it does in 1 Cor 6:9, and I have a brother telling others that they WILL inherit the Kingdom of God - SOMEONE IS LYING.

Or someone misinterpreted something. For example, “homosexual” in Cor is the result of a poor translation from malakoi and arsenokoitai, which would be closer to people of poor morals and male prostitutes. Calling someone a lier is a way of finding a simple answer to a complex question.

You can see my signature verse below and conclude that it is not God. So then, do I smile and accept Gene Robinson's confirmation as a gay bishop? Or do I say: "Hey! wait a minute!". Thus we have the dichotomy of liberal vs. conservative. It has to do with upholding standards, not ideas.

So, why don’t we go back to having slaves, since it was Biblically supported once not long ago. How about taking away women’s rights while we’re at it. What about putting adulters to death? How about polygamy?

Could it be that perhaps, these, like homophobia, are the result of people using the Bible to justify their own means?

It doesn't say to kill babies. The very thought is contrary to the nature of God. BUT, take a look at this:

I wasn’t talking about those verses. Other ones show the atrocity just fine.

Psalm 137:9: Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Numbers 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones.

Deuteronomy 2:34 …utterly destroyed the men and the women and the little ones.

I Samuel 15:3 slay both man and woman, infant and suckling.

2 Kings 8:12 dash their children, and rip up their women with child.

2 Kings 15:16 all the women therein that were with child he ripped up.

Isaiah 13:18 They shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.

Lamentations 2:20 Shall the women eat their fruit, and children.

Ezekiel 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids and little children.

Hosea 9:14 give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.

Hosea 13:16 their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Furthermore, Deuteronomy 23:1-2). "?No one born out of wedlock or any descendent of such a person, even in the tenth generation, may be included among the Lord's people."

Condemning innocent children? Seems like a loving thing to do, eh?

Of course we have a choice...what's the analogy?

You said to “forget opinion.” Opinion is a form of choice. Without opinions, we have no choice, because we do not think. Hence, we become like chess pieces.

For crying out loud. Look, opinion is IRRELEVANT to matters of truth. God's word is absolutely true and it is not open to variety like a doctrinal smorgasboard.

Look, I’m going to use an analogy here.

Suppose four friends fix you up with a blind date, but they give it a twist. Each gives you a written description and account of the woman in question, and you have to use those accounts to pick her out of a crowd. First of all, what would you think if all the accounts agreed in every tiny detail, would you think you think them reliable? Of course not, you would think you were being set up. If each friend gave you an independent and honest opinion of the woman, there are bound to be differences.

The four gospels found in the Bible are testimonies of Jesus’s life. The very fact that there are discrepancies among them show them to be more believable than if they were like mechanical parts of a jigsaw puzzle.

How about what is DOES SAY? Who cares what anyone thinks it says.

Because without thinking, you have not read it. You have only heard sounds in the air, and looked at scratches on a paper.

No. No, no, no, no, no. Miss Firerose, listen:

Saying, “...rejects the transformation and blunders about in an arrested state of spiritual development” particularly a liberal since you’re a fundamentalist, sounds quite arrogant to me. Quite arrogant to try and diagnose other people’s state of spiritual awareness as well.

AGAIN I APPEAL TO: WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY?

In my opinion, someone can memorize the entire Bible, and not know Christ. Just as someone can know Christ, and know none of the Bible. Christ, to me, is the embodiment of love, the relationship between people. IMO, if you love others, you know Christ.

I can assure you, I think quite a bit. I never stop thinking, ever. I am provoked to think by the word of God everytime I go near it.

You just said “who cares what anyone thinks.” So why do you think at all, if thinking is “irreverent” as you assume?

I am also not a believer is "fundamentalism" whereby that is the essence that gives me therapy. I am a believer in Christ, and yes, He is the ONLY therapy that there is PERIOD. I have no fear of man, but I have plenty of fear of my own sinfulness and the answers that I will have to provide when I meet Him face to face.

I agree with that. However, I don’t see the Bible in the sense that you describe it as being a good crutch. Because, life is not simple, and there are no dirrect answers. Because I belive Christ is the essense of love, my comfort is in personal relationships, with people and with God.

There's that "liberal" word again without a definition.

http://www.geocities.com/lib_christian_2000/liberal.htm This pretty much sums up my idea of a liberal.

Jewish Christians were NOT forced to abandon the Law, but rather to avoid forcing the Gentile Christians into taking the Law as a nessecary means to complete their salvation.

We’re not talking about salvation, we’re talking about whether or not the Jewish Messiah was supposed to die. And according to the OT, He wasn’t. When Jesus’s disciples did not understand what Jesus was saying about going down to Jerusalem to die, it wasn’t because they were stupid or any such thing, it was because they genuinely believed Jesus was the messiah, and the messiah was not supposed to die. He was supposed to usher in the kingdom of God, where there would be no more death. They were faced with a choice, and nothing is more upsetting to people than to be faced with a fundamental choice. They had to decide whether to adhere to the conception of the messiah that was so deeply rooted in Jewish belief and hope, or to redefine the conception in light of their experience of Jesus. The former continued to be Jews. And those who chose the latter became Jews of particular sect that went against mainstream Judaism. In other words, they became the first Christians.

However, as in our discussion here, and my debates with other liberal Christians...they DID NOT READ the scriptures to rightly ascertain these events! If the would they would have known.

If it’s possible to not read the scriptures rightly, than that means that one must attempt to interpret what is being said. You said that there is no such thing as interpretation involving the Bible, hence, according to your logic, anyone who reads the Bible will come to the exact same conclusion as those around them. Since this obviously isn’t true, I’ll leave it up to you to interpret.

Go ahead then.

Gladly.

I will use another allegory here to make my point.

Suppose you are a spy, and you have five minutes with the enemy’s top secret device, but you can’t touch it because it’s wired to an alarm. You have to gather as much information as possible with a camera. What do you do? You take pictures from as many angles as possible. You then turn the film into your headquarters’ laboratory so they can contruct a mock-up. What would you think if you received your developed pictures in glossy prints arranged in a tasteful collage, and were told that was the reproduction of the enemy’s device? That’s confusing the picture with what the picture represents.

Here we go:

Christ must be a fundamental then huh?

Right afterward, however, Christ went into detail about many of the laws of the old traditions. Often starting His words with “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time”…. “But I say unto you” This shows that, in the least, the old laws were being followed incorrectly.

There is not a shred of proof that the Bible contains any political "spin" of any kind. That statement is pure, unsubstantiated speculation, the very sort of thing that grills my soul about liberals; failure to recognize that something may be complete the way it is.

And there is not one shred of proof that every word is the infallible word of God. Even the Gospels were accounts of Jesus’s life. Jesus did not sit down and write them Himself. The Apostles did, years after Jesus died. The best we can do is read each account slowly, deeply, getting a picture of the person they represented in our minds. When we come across discrepancies, we should neither dismiss them nor force them into some artificial harmony, but strive to find perspectives from which they resolved themselves by taking into account all the reasons they might be there, including the author’s perspective motives and view points. Eventually, we’d have a sense of the real person who inspired these accounts, but who can’t be reduced to one or even all of them.

The Word is a Person, not a "book".

Yet, how uncanny that Jesus is often reduced to “do’s and don’ts”.

It's my style to emphasize a point. I could fuss about your liberal (no pun) use of blank space in your posts that take up an entire page, but I won't.

That was a mistake with formatting, capitalizing is voluntary.

 

[MissFirerose]

You did.

May I ask where?

1Co 13:6 (love) does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;

What is unrighteousness and what is truth? If the Bible is true, we have lots to talk about in this area.

Jesus describes love as loving each person as if they were yourself.

Thou shalt LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR as thyself" (Mat. 22:37-39)

Love and truth are two different things. Not contradictory, but not the same either.

We're talking about the same Person. Jesus IS God.

I agree. But I think people’s view of God is a lot more skewed than their view of Jesus.

Oh, and God laughs at those that reject Him, or is that not very Christian of Him?

Actually, to me it doesn’t seem very Christian. But then again, a lot of the stuff in the OT doesn’t seem very Christian like.

Now we have a legitimate opinion!!

Fundamentalism does not contribute to legibility.

Yes it is. MOST liberals that I've encountered in here do not care if the Bible contradicts their opinions, they, in turn accuse me of "misinterpretation" whereby I say: "hogwash".

Absurdity, hogwash, and other such things are only absurd to the logic and viewpoint of the one who sees them as such.

The liberals I do encounter that argue the "interpretation" bit are never capable of backing it up Biblically (ie: the gay bishop).

What if we were to have a Japanese bishop. I’m sure a Japanese Bishop is never specifically mentioned in the Bible, does that make it wrong to have one?

Is your morality greater than God's? Honestly. What is the point in that statement!?

No, but my morality is not less than those who wrote the Bible. You can say that the Bible is 100% inspired, but there is no proof of that, just as there is no proof that it isn’t. It’s up to us. Because of that, I have to decide for myself, first and formost, if what I’m doing is right. In one small part of the Bible, it says to stone adulterers. Yes, Jesus told us not to later on, but in that one small part, it does. Would you be able to sleep at night if you carried out that law, because it simply existed in the first place? I wouldn’t.

I reckon that if something is "not seen" that subjective viewpoint would then be blinded to that object; ie: "blind". Couple that with "faith" and you have "believing something blindly".

I did not mean “blind” as in regard to not being able to see something. I was using the word in a more deep fashion, not as literally being “blind.” I meant that, to blindly follow something is to separate not only one’s own feelings about the matter, but their own morality in regards to it. I’ll use another allegory to make my point clearer.

Suppose your father has, for the most part, been a kind and loving man. You look up to him and follow his example. But, one day he comes to you and tells you to kill your sister. Following his directions without question is blindly following something, going against his orders to kill your sibling because of our own moral feelings on the matter is following with not only that submissive part of your soul, but your heart as well.

NEXT!

Yelling “next”, in that fashion, is rather immature.

There is a difference between arrogance and right. If a person gloats in themselves as the source of knowledge, they are arrogant. If another gloats in something outside themselves (the Bible) as being right, they are NOT arrogant because they are not claiming to have anything of their own, nor are they seeking to gain anything by the gesture.

Gloating, in the first place, is a sublude to arrogance, and would be concidered rude. Even if I knew I was infallubly right about something, such as, say grvity, I would strive not to gloat about it, because such a gesture is at the least, unbecoming and quite rude.

You are not gloating about the fact that the Bible is right, you are gloating because the way that you see it is what you perceive as being right. There’s a difference.

And I am NOT perfect, my jabs are not meant to hurt...I'm learning too and I'm sorry for jabbing insomuch as it takes from the message. My zeal is for the message, to the point of arguing all else contrary to the message is rubbish.

It’s okay. I’m sorry if I jabbed at you at all either.

Who's that?

A very, very, very scary and mentally disturbed fellow, who claims to be a Christian. I pray that you never run into him. I’m sure he thinks 99.9 percent of us are all hellbound.

Define love. There are many kinds of love, not all of them are good.

To me, acts such as those are not love. Love is the act of being in love with the beloved. In God’s case, he is the lover and we are the beloved. In humanity’s case, we ourselves are the lovers, and everyone else in existence are the beloved. I do not mean “lover” here in a sexual or romantic way, but in a spiritual way.

I've asked if you've read you Bible, that is not rude unless I stepped on some spiritual pride that you may be hiding.

I suppose I, like everyone, has some form of spiritual pride. It’s not a pretty trait, but we’re all only human. I suppose I got a bit clipped with you is because, after getting messages such as “you should really read your Bible” and such, just because the certain someone’s opinion differed from mine.

Here's why I asked; you do not seem to have a strong basis to argue these points, but claim that my interpretation is purely subjective when I quote it for you in black and white.

Define basis. I don’t live by the logic of fundamentalism. So of course, you would disregard some of my points. Just as I, tend to disregard scripture quoting because it A. usually can’t encompass the point of the chapter in which it was taken from, and B. is quoted to serve an individual’s purpose for something that it does not relate to. I only resort to scripture quoting when someone else does it first, and even then, I try to avoid it.

I thought you said laughing wasn't christian. You've just broken your own moral code that you've argued is too good for the icky parts of the Word of God.

I suppose I did. Thanks for catching me. I try to avoid laughing at others, but I’m only human.

No. No sarcasm. I'm tired of seeing people attempt to legitimize sin and tell me that God says it's okay when He does not. Gene Robinson is WRONG to think he can be a gay bishop...that is clearly, CLEARLY sin. It is this relativistic attitude that is prompting these kinds of threads.

I’m sorry you feel that way. I’m sorry that you see a relationship between two loving people as wrong. But, some people were mad when some of us started to take a stand against slavery. Would I say that those who were mad about such things were in fact, the ones misinterpreting the Bible, yes. And I’m sure many folks here would agree with me.

I want to see believers asking themselves questions like: "what is sin?" So that we may grow in Christ as FUNCTION as a church is a dying world.

Yes, I too want to see people asking themselves that question, because we are often too quick to resort to quoting one or two sentences in a chapter to justify our own beliefs, and we are often too quick to try and see what the point of those one or two sentences actually was.

You miss the point again.

Again? Care to show me the other time? The only other references to points made in this conversation that I can see are either talking about viewpoints or you asking me what one of my points was about.

The Bible does not shock the human soul that was made in the image of God that "murder is wrong".

Well.. than you’re saying that humans fundamentally know that murder is wrong. And that means that we have some sort of morality to us to begin with, regardless of the Bible.

The Bible shocks the human soul when it digs deeper into the center of the very being where the thoughts originate long, long before the murder is ever carried out.

What of the woman that kills in self defense? She still murders, yet, she never premeditated such an act. What about the man who sticks out in a fit of anger or passion, no thoughts are present, yet he still is a murderer. Murder is not always premeditated.

 

[MissFirerose]

LoL, im sorry, i was hoping i'll get alot of pms. No one ever reads my post. grr..

I can't be 100% right.

Plus i have been writing alot lately, i dont know where i get the energy to write so much!! lol.

Anyway when it comes to God, you can not risk opinions. You have to be sure of what you are believing in. Or else whats the point of believing. But once you are certain, then you have to learn self-control and how to go about your certainty.

Its better to be taught than to be told.

If you Trust God, you will Trust God that He lead them to understand.

You plant the seed, God provides the increase, we can't force it to grow.

oh and never leave home without your bible. lol

well not the literal bible underneath your arms like a deorderant, i mean the bible in your heart and mind. read, even if you don't understand yet, you will soon. Dont lose faith.

The Bible is the Basis, but Life itself is full of Lessons.

No no, I read it. I've just been quite busy as of late. You seem like a very wise young man.

 

[Buck72]

Answer this, sir. What are words? Would you say, “concepts”, “ideas”? True, if one asks what a word is about. But, what is a word literally? A sound. Marks on a paper. So what is the literal meaning of a word? Nothing. Literally, a word is meaningless. Words have meaning only as we interpret their meanings. Without interpretation there is no meaning, and without meaning, there is no communication.

Does this excuse you from God's Word? How about a STOP sign? Is that some meaningless mark on an octaganal sheet of metal? I thought the thread was about how satan attacks us, what I should call it is how Miss Firerose, like all liberals flees the topic issue to "discredit" the person addressing the issue.

Sounds to me like that’s more of a case of hypocrisy than rebellion

Jesus was more concerned with how we treated each other than by black and white rules and words. I challenge you to call Him a fundamentalist here:

Jesus was most concerned about the lack of faith present in those that He ministered to, the same lack of faith I have addressed in this liberal theology forum. That lack of faith being: "The Bible no longer maintains a modern posture within our cosmopolitan, en vougue society, therefore it cannot really mean what it says, and thus I need to 'help' it by adding my own liberal spin".

Christ was very fundamental, he quoted the OT again and again and held those (Nicodemus) accountable for not understanding the scriptures. He was murdered by His own people Firerose, don't you conclude that they didn't get it?

He is so fundamental to the point of damning supposed 'christians' to Hell because they missed the entire point of salvation. This passage should frighten everyone of us into double-checking our conversion:

Mat 7:13"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Mat 7:14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Mat 7:15"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Mat 7:16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
Mat 7:17"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
Mat 7:18"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
Mat 7:19"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 7:20"So then, you will know them by their fruits.
Mat 7:21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Mat 7:22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Mat 7:23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
Mat 7:24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Mat 7:25"And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
Mat 7:26"Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
Mat 7:27"The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell--and great was its fall."

"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:36-40

Amen. That does NOT replace obedience, it validates obedience as being from the heart, not from rote religious practice.

Joh 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
Joh 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.
1Jo 2:5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Sounds like He’s real concerned with strict obedience and Bible thumping….

He is very concerned with obedience, and "Bible thumping" - ever notice that He quotes the OT over and over again and held them (the Jews)accountable for NOT knowing it?

But it’s still your interpretation of the truth. How does that make it any more valid than any other person’s? Or someone misinterpreted something. For example, “homosexual” in Cor is the result of a poor translation from malakoi and arsenokoitai, which would be closer to people of poor morals and male prostitutes. Calling someone a lier is a way of finding a simple answer to a complex question.

What about YOUR interpretation Firerose? You seem fond of erasing the "ugly" parts of the Bible and claiming that Christ was about disobedience.

Regarding the homosexual argument:

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

God hates homosexuality (and all sins), although He is fond of seeing them come to repentance and following Christ, like all sinners.

I'll be happy to translate the words for you, since you seem to be having trouble: (From 1 Cor 6:9)

FORNICATOR - πόρνος pornos; por'-nos
From πέρνημιpernēmi (to sell; akin to the base of G4097); a (male) prostitute (as venal), that is, (by analogy) a debauchee (libertine): - fornicator, whoremonger.

EFFIMINATE - μαλακός malakos; mal-ak-os'
Of uncertain affinity; soft, that is, fine (clothing); figuratively a catamite: - effeminate, soft.

HOMOSEXUAL - ἀρσενοκοίτης arsenokoitēs; ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace
From G730 and G2845; a sodomite: - abuser of (that defile) self with mankind.

You've got even bigger problems with Romans 1.

So, why don’t we go back to having slaves, since it was Biblically supported once not long ago. How about taking away women’s rights while we’re at it. What about putting adulters to death? How about polygamy?

Take it up with God sister, Buck doesn't make the rules, but I'm supposed to answer your liberal hysteria? Why don't we just shut up and do what God says?

Women's rights? What the heck are you talking about?

Could it be that perhaps, these, like homophobia, are the result of people using the Bible to justify their own means? I wasn’t talking about those verses. Other ones show the atrocity just fine.

Could it be that liberal quacks that want to destroy the solemn faith for the sake of their tingling loins justify themselves IN SPITE of contrary Biblical evidence?

Homophobia!? I'm close to vomiting now.

Psalm 137:9: Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
Numbers 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones.
Deuteronomy 2:34 …utterly destroyed the men and the women and the little ones.
I Samuel 15:3 slay both man and woman, infant and suckling.
2 Kings 8:12 dash their children, and rip up their women with child.
2 Kings 15:16 all the women therein that were with child he ripped up.
Isaiah 13:18 They shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.
Lamentations 2:20 Shall the women eat their fruit, and children.
Ezekiel 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids and little children.
Hosea 9:14 give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.
Hosea 13:16 their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.
Furthermore, Deuteronomy 23:1-2). "?No one born out of wedlock or any descendent of such a person, even in the tenth generation, may be included among the Lord's people."
Condemning innocent children? Seems like a loving thing to do, eh? You said to “forget opinion.” Opinion is a form of choice. Without opinions, we have no choice, because we do not think. Hence, we become like chess pieces. Look, I’m going to use an analogy here.

Do you have control over how looney you allow your yourself to come across?

Besides GROSSLY misquoting and reducing the Bible into a parody of your own inexplicable disdain, you fail to realize these "innocent children" were the enemies of the people of God. God destroys His enemies, and He will do the same again soon.

Like I said before, take it up with God. If he angers you so badly - check your conversion.

 

[Buck72]

The four gospels found in the Bible are testimonies of Jesus’s life. The very fact that there are discrepancies among them show them to be more believable than if they were like mechanical parts of a jigsaw puzzle. Because without thinking, you have not read it. You have only heard sounds in the air, and looked at scratches on a paper.

Okay, show me the discrepancies.

...In my opinion, someone can memorize the entire Bible, and not know Christ. Just as someone can know Christ, and know none of the Bible. Christ, to me, is the embodiment of love, the relationship between people. IMO, if you love others, you know Christ.

Christ is the embodiment of God's love and the relationship to God, co-shares of that love automatically love one another because they are fixed in the saving love of God. I do not know what 'IMO' stands for, but loving others does NOT equate knowing Christ.

You just said “who cares what anyone thinks.” So why do you think at all, if thinking is “irreverent” as you assume? I agree with that. However, I don’t see the Bible in the sense that you describe it as being a good crutch. Because, life is not simple, and there are no dirrect answers. Because I belive Christ is the essense of love, my comfort is in personal relationships, with people and with God.

Life is simpler than we make it. Liberalism obfuscates simplicity as it has to start questioning everything that has already been answered, as if questioning the same thing will bring about a different answer. Your understanding of what I just said by: "Who cares what anyone thinks", is broken:

1. I said who cares what anyone thinks with regard to giving human "think" preminance to God's Word.

2. Nowhere did I claim thoughtless Christianity. It requires great thinking in order to grasp what it already says, not to infer what "I think" it says.

http://www.geocities.com/lib_christian_2000/liberal.htm This pretty much sums up my idea of a liberal.

After looking at that link, I am more worried than ever about liberal christianity. I almost began to relinquish my sharp posture against liberal christianity, but oh how I underestimated the basis of this segment of faith!
Joh 12:43 for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.

We’re not talking about salvation, we’re talking about whether or not the Jewish Messiah was supposed to die. And according to the OT, He wasn’t.

No, no, no. The OT described his death in surreal detail, 1500 years before crucifixion was even invented. The reason the Jews failed to grasp it is a parallel why you and I cannot seem to find harmony. I quote scripture and you blast me for "interpretation" - ugh.

You can start by reading Psalm 22, then read Isiah 50-53. I'd be happy to post them for you, but that would take up too much space. The scarlet thread throughout the entire OT is built upon the work of salvation that Christ fulfilled. Even the names of the first 10 men from Adam to Noah translates the Gospel brilliantly:

Adam - Man
Seth - Appointed
Enosh - Mortal
Kenan - Sorrow
Mahalalel - The Blessed God
Jared - Shall Come Down
Enoch - Teaching
Methuselah - His Death Shall Bring
Lamech - The Despairing
Noah - Rest or Comfort

See http://www.khouse.org/articles/biblestudy/19960201-44.html

I will use another allegory here to make my point.

Suppose you are a spy, and you have five minutes with the enemy’s top secret device, but you can’t touch it because it’s wired to an alarm. You have to gather as much information as possible with a camera. What do you do? You take pictures from as many angles as possible. You then turn the film into your headquarters’ laboratory so they can contruct a mock-up. What would you think if you received your developed pictures in glossy prints arranged in a tasteful collage, and were told that was the reproduction of the enemy’s device? That’s confusing the picture with what the picture represents.

What in all that is holy and decent is that supposed to say?

Right afterward, however, Christ went into detail about many of the laws of the old traditions. Often starting His words with “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time”…. “But I say unto you” This shows that, in the least, the old laws were being followed incorrectly.

Christ took the Law a step further, it is a Law of the heart whereby we obey Him because we love Him, not from some ritualistic religious enterprise.

And there is not one shred of proof that every word is the infallible word of God. Even the Gospels were accounts of Jesus’s life. Jesus did not sit down and write them Himself. The Apostles did, years after Jesus died.

Why do you even claim to believe, since it is by your posts that you admit disbelief?

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

The best we can do is read each account slowly, deeply, getting a picture of the person they represented in our minds. When we come across discrepancies, we should neither dismiss them nor force them into some artificial harmony,

Yes, we agree here!

but strive to find perspectives from which they resolved themselves by taking into account all the reasons they might be there, including the author’s perspective motives and view points.

...well almost.

Who wrote the Bible? Man or God? Did not God speak through them? And if were written solely by men, we have major problems, since God speaks in the first person in almost every single book in the Bible.

Eventually, we’d have a sense of the real person who inspired these accounts, but who can’t be reduced to one or even all of them. Yet, how uncanny that Jesus is often reduced to “do’s and don’ts”. That was a mistake with formatting, capitalizing is voluntary.

Do's and don'ts huh? Again you lose me in the fog of nothingness...

 

[Buck72]

Friends,

Please keep your posts related to the topic.

Again I might note that Satan attacks the believer so as to sidetrack him/her from the issue...of Satan!

Where was it written that 'the greatest acheivement of the devil was convincing the world he does not exist'?

At any rate, he does exist, and believers need to be aware of how he operates.

1. He distorts, discredits, and profanes the Word of God
2. He resists those that advance the word of God.

Satan wants the believer (and non-believer) to die. He does not want the believer (non-believer) to be victorious in the truth.

 

[MissFirerose]

Does this excuse you from God's Word?

Truly thinking about what the Bible says does not excuse anyone from God's word. It does the complete opposite.

How about a STOP sign? Is that some meaningless mark on an octaganal sheet of metal?

Yes. People are not born knowing what stop signs are, we learn. Unless you somehow were born knowing what physical signs in our society mean.

In my humble opinion, I think the Bible is a bit more complex than a stop sign, as well. But that’s just me.

I thought the thread was about how satan attacks us, what I should call it is how Miss Firerose, like all liberals flees the topic issue to "discredit" the person addressing the issue.

Personal attacks do not paint a very mature picture of those who use them.

How highly ironic you accuse me of trying to discredit you, since that’s basically what your entire post revolves around in regards to me. I try to keep a mature, intelligent manner and I am met with remarks such as “did you read your Bible”, and such words used in a manner that patronizes such as “sister.” Further on you refer to me as “loony.” How is that not trying to discredit? I would have to say it’s rather rude and immature as well.

Jesus was most concerned about the lack of faith present in those that He ministered to, the same lack of faith I have addressed in this liberal theology forum. That lack of faith being: "The Bible no longer maintains a modern posture within our cosmopolitan, en vougue society, therefore it cannot really mean what it says, and thus I need to 'help' it by adding my own liberal spin".

Christ was very fundamental, he quoted the OT again and again and held those (Nicodemus) accountable for not understanding the scriptures. He was murdered by His own people Firerose, don't you conclude that they didn't get it?

He is so fundamental to the point of damning supposed 'christians' to Hell because they missed the entire point of salvation. This passage should frighten everyone of us into double-checking our conversion:

That is exactly why I try to refrain from scripture quoting. It is the same as taking two or so sentences from a chapter in a book, and claiming that they alone encompass the entitiy of the chapter.

If you read the accounts of the Gospels, you will see that Christ was far more concerned with people who used the Bible to their own ends, and those who treated others unfairly. Quoting random scriptures would be like using “It is easier for a camel to go through
the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” To justify thinking all rich people go to hell.

Amen. That does NOT replace obedience, it validates obedience as being from the heart, not from rote religious practice.

Hardly. If he wanted us to follow the Bible to the point where we almost replace it with him, he would have listed commandments that refer to such a thing. “loving your neighbor” has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with human relationships.

He is very concerned with obedience, and "Bible thumping" - ever notice that He quotes the OT over and over again and held them (the Jews)accountable for NOT knowing it?

Yet, he also didn’t follow many of the old rules of the OT, such as not working on the Sabbath and things regarding dietary restrictions.

What about YOUR interpretation Firerose? You seem fond of erasing the "ugly" parts of the Bible and claiming that Christ was about disobedience.

Christ was about disobedience?



Hm, I thought he was about love.

Regarding the homosexual argument:

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

Does capitalizing make you feel like your point is more truthful?

I'll be happy to translate the words for you, since you seem to be having trouble: (From 1 Cor 6:9)

HOMOSEXUAL - α

̓ρσενοκοίτης [font=&quot]arsenokoitēs; [/font]ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace
From G730 and G2845; a sodomite: - abuser of (that defile) self with mankind.

You've got even bigger problems with Romans 1.

The only definition that could even relate to homosexuality is arsenokoites, and even at that, it is extremely vague. There were many words that referred to specific homosexual relationships in Greek homoerotic literature. Arsenokoites was never used in any literature to refer to homosexuals.

Do some research on the word before writing me off as “having trouble”. Or, is that the only way you can argue with me over it, by simply saying that I’m “having trouble.”?

Take it up with God sister, Buck doesn't make the rules, but I'm supposed to answer your liberal hysteria? Why don't we just shut up and do what God says?

Liberal hysteria? Please, it would be highly appreciated if you dropped the personal attacks, sarcasm, and jabs and simply answered my questions. But that seems like it’s too much to ask at this point, since you completely ignored what I said and accused me of hysteria. How easy it is to throw names around. How hard it is to actually respond.

Women's rights? What the heck are you talking about?

You do know that some “Christians” claim feminism as being satanic, don’t you? Have you really never heard of people using the Bible to justify sexism?

Could it be that liberal quacks that want to destroy the solemn faith for the sake of their tingling loins justify themselves IN SPITE of contrary Biblical evidence?

Liberal quacks. I should really be counting every derogatory remark you’ve said against me and liberals. So far we have:

• 1.Liberals seek to discredit people they argument
  
  2. My arguments are nothing more than “liberal hysteria”
  
  3.patronizing such as calling me “sister.”
  
  4. saying liberals are quacks
  
  5. saying liberals are out to destroy faith
  
  6. and below… saying I’m loony
  

That’s six there. I’m sure there’s some I missed as well.

We aren’t out to destroy faith or the Bible. Please stop attacking us of doing so.

Homophobia!? I'm close to vomiting now.

So am I.

Do you have control over how looney you allow your yourself to come across?

I could say some things about you. But I’m not going to stoop to your level.

Besides GROSSLY misquoting and reducing the Bible into a parody of your own inexplicable disdain,

You never answered one of my questions. Instead, you simply say that I misquoted the Bible and made it into a parody.



I could say gravity doesn’t exist, yet, I don’t want to be the one to test that statement. I could say the moon is made out of cheese. Is it really?

you fail to realize these "innocent children" were the enemies of the people of God. God destroys His enemies, and He will do the same again soon.

This is one of the saddest and most disturbing things I’ve heard to date. And not sad as in pataetic, sad as in, genuinely depressing. That some Christians think that little babies are born as enemies of God… This is why I’m ashamed of my religion at times.



I can’t believe you think that killing babies is justified because their parents may have not been following God….



And you think I’m loony...

Like I said before, take it up with God. If he angers you so badly - check your conversion.

Now you’re suggesting I convert? Please, I said so before, but I’ll say it again, please attempt to refrain from personally attacking me or doing such things as suggesting I convert. It’s rather unflattering for you.



God is not angering me, people down here are.



Take it up with God? This is one of the key problems I have with fundamentalism. Religion, any religion, is not some set of rules that we do and do not follow. Religion is not meant to be a balm for life. It’s not supposed to dull life. Religion is not some form of ideality that we carry around in our heads to “make everything right” when a bump comes up in the road that makes our lives less than perfect. Christianity is about living in love, about taking on the challenge that Jesus set out for us, to each carry our own cross as he did. Instead, it’s been reduced to getting your ticket punched and going up to heaven.



Too many Christians have sweet Jesus in their hearts, damnation on their lips, and heaven on their minds.

 

[seebs]

God doesn't anger me. People anger me. God reminds me of what in them is good, and calms me down.

That said, when the way in which they are wrong harms the innocent, I tend to become mad at them over and over again.

 

[Buck72]

Folks, like it or not, the Church is under enormous attack. Christ warned us about this in His word, but none of you seem to get it. I must not be explaining it clearly enough, and am prone to getting short at times (sorry, I'm growing too); but my gosh - THE TRUE CHURCH IS BEING PERSECUTED. When I say "true Church" I mean the folks that are in Christ. Now you may argue: "We're all in Christ". That would be terrific, but not everyone that says: "Lord, Lord" is going to make it!!

What are we supposed to be doing in the faith while the world around us encircles itself like a snake around the Body to CHOKE it? Just smile and say: "God loves you" to the snake? How about CUT IT'S HEAD OFF!?

Call me fundy or YEC or 'old school', but good grief - the church is granting 'get ouf jail free' cards with its own stamp and NOT Christ's. God has written to us that we may KNOW the truth, not speculate about it or come up with our version based upon what we feel.

I hate to be the guy that says this, but YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT. Christ liberated (ie: liberal) His people from wandering about in a pathless waste under mere religiosity, dead faith, and lip-service; He enabled them to walk in Him, as adopted sons and daughters to live a life of obedience (fundamental) with a passion for God, and the Glory of God.

Today's church, like the world in soaks itself in, prefers to glorify the individual, and somehow attach "God" on the end of that self-love whereas they pursue their pleasure in what they would've pursued ANYWAY, WITHOUT GOD. Somehow "christianizing" their worldliness.

Christ is love. And the love of God is that we keep His commandments. God's love for Himself will not allow sin to remain unpunished. He took the sin of the world upon Himself, to defer that horrible Almighty wrath to come, that we who believe would find salvation (from sin, death, and judgement). Those who do not believe will burn like dogs in hell.

That is what the Bible says. Either we believe or we do not believe. The individual has only one of two choices to the message:

1. Repent. Amen brother, sister (including you Gene, if you repent), welcome!

2. Rebellion.

I swim through a rebellious world that despises Christ everyday of my life. It is on the news daily, some group becoming "offended" at a CHRISTMAS TREE (by no means a 'christian' icon, but representative of 'christmas') or a NATIVITY SCENE, so the courts, led by some slick, liberal lawyer step in to renounce the right of those 'horrible' people to display a Nativity scene, as if that's what's REALLY wrong with America.

I could list headlines from the last week and fill an entire page...I'd be happy to add more references if you think I'm "overreacting".

Here's a picture of Christ "overreacting" to the rebellious:

Rev 16:8 The fourth angel poured out his bowl upon the sun, and it was given to it to scorch men with fire.

Rev 16:9 Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory.

Rev 16:10 Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became darkened; and they gnawed their tongues because of pain,

Rev 16:11 and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.

Am I the only one that sees this!?

You guys, I love you, and I mean to convey that through the knowledge of the truth. I apologize for getting short, but we are running out of time and we need to get onboard with God's mission:

DESCRIBED IN HIS WORD.

Please, I beg you to consider your stance on the Word. If I'm wrong, so what, you can be smarter on the Bible...what's to lose?

But if I'm right (rather, the Bible is right) - the consequence is ETERNAL.