Mixed signals are not the form of sound words. You say you do not judge but your posts say you do. You have designated others as being in Heaven by reason. Why not Martin Luther? What is your reason?
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I can not judge, I just ment that I had had no reason to believe that he was in heaven, but I can not judge that he is in hell either, I can not read a mans heart
I do not judge, but the Church as a whole recognizes some as leading lives of extraordinary virtue and are thus worthy of emulating in the Christian life.Mixed signals are not the form of sound words. You say you do not judge but your posts say you do. You have designated others as being in Heaven by reason. Why not Martin Luther? What is your reason?
I do not judge, but the Church as a whole recognizes some as leading lives of extraordinary virtue and are thus worthy of emulating in the Christian life.
the Church says that some people are in heaven, but I do not think it has ever once said that someone is for sure in hell, insted trusting that God might have given them the oppertunity to repent in the final moments of this life
Mixed signals are not the form of sound words. You say you do not judge but your posts say you do. You have designated others as being in Heaven by reason. Why not Martin Luther? What is your reason?
Do you think Innocent III is in Heaven? How about Gregory VII? John Paul II? Please tell us your reasons.
I only judge doctrines with Scriptures:
***Matt 7:14-20
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
I can not judge, I just ment that I had had no reason to believe that he [Martin Luther] was in heaven, but I can not judge that he is in hell either, I can not read a mans heart
Uh huh...but Saint Martin Luther is in there, right?
So one should conclude that you think Innocent III, Gregory VII, and John Paul II are false prophets and ravening wolves in sheep's clothing?
You may conclude whatever you like.
You assume much. Jesus is our only intercessor. He is the only one Who has been on Earth that now resides in Heaven.
You have designated others as being in Heaven by reason. [/b]
thank you, i try to be honestTo again bring up the other thread, I at least appreciate the honesty. I disagree, but appreciate the honesty in saying RC doesn't know if non-RC are in heaven. (Presumably RC believes RCers are in heaven.)
ok, so you are not claiming to know if Martin Luther is in heaven correct?I have never in my life put the term "saint" in front of anyone's name until now. Do you know why? It is to show that the rcc does not designate him a saint for obvious reasons. Many assume too much and elevate themselves and is the same as being a self-appointed vicar. Only God determines those who merit salvation.
I think you mistook what Rhamiel said. He said saints are those who are in heaven, and you took that to mean that all the saints are in heaven because they have been designated as saints on earth; ie by man.
In fact it is the other way round. They become saints by virtue of their faithful lives, which have now ended, and they have entered eternity by the Grace of God.
What Rhamiel actually meant, I think, is that anyone who has entered eternity with God is a saint, as indeed is true. This is not just those who the Church has been able to recognise as saints, but includes many tens of thousands of others known only to God, and may or may not include Martin Luther; it is not for us to judge either way those who are not designated as saints by the Church.
The Church does not create saints; it recongises what God has himself accomplished, and it does not do this lightly.
This is non standard Christian belief. Christ is NOT the only inhabitant of eternity. He is surrounded by the whole company of heaven; angels, archangels, principalities, powers, dominions etc, and saints.
See the Book of Revelation, inter alia, for further details.
So one should conclude that you think Innocent III, Gregory VII, and John Paul II are false prophets and ravening wolves in sheep's clothing?
I am speaking of humans. I do not care one iota of standard Christian belief.
Israel believed 10 and spent 40 years in the wilderness for rejecting Joshua and Caleb. The power of orthodoxy.
The book of Revelation in its entirity is yet future.
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