How does one become a saint?

[Gxg (G²)]

Been processing on what it takes for someone to truly be considered as a saint....and it seems some are considered more so than others, even though many believers do some of the same things and never get the title "saint." In example, as much as I may like St.Moses the Black or St.Anthony or St.Patrick...I greatly respect people such as George Washington Carver (famously called the "Peanut Doctor" and one responsible for revolutionizing the world with his creations), whom many consider to be an Eco-Monk/Eco-Missionary for the extensive amount of ways that he transformed communities/sought to show the love of Christ. He's similar. In many ways, a different version of St.Bartholomew the "Green Patriarch" ( #1 ,#6, #28 ) in the way he loved the Lord's creation and saw it as a means of saving others.

But of course, many would not consider him to be saintly enough...but he's someone I value. Interestingly enough, he based aspects of his work with plant hybridization on a monk known as Gregor Mendel (the "Scientist Monk" who did work on plant breeding while at St Thomas's Abbey of the Roman Catholic church). For more information on Gregor Mendel, one of the best books out there is known as The Monk in the GardeN: The Lost and Found Genius of Gregor Mendel, the Father of Genetics. And for others:

• "Famous Scientists Who Believed in God" ( )
• "Rocky Road: Gregor Mendel" ( )
• --"Mendel: Man and Mind - Mendel Museum of Genetics" ()
• The Christian DNA of Modern Genetics | Christian History" ( )

Seeing Medel's work referenced by Carver seemed to connect the dots as it concerns the ways monasticism helped Carver do as he did, as it was within Monasticism that Medel's work gained more focus.

All of that is said in regards to the larger issue of seeing how others are able to be considered as saints when while others aren't even though there may be the same actions in both. Praying that my question makes sense

 

[Rhamiel]

saints are those who are in heaven

the bible says that the wheat and the tares grow side by side, and only God can judge a mans heart, so we do not judge those on earth to be saints in the normal way
though it is true that all believers are saints, and can be called saints, but to point out individuals as saints while still alive opens up a lot of problems, what if we are mistaken or what if they become apostate and great sinners latter in life?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

saints are those who are in heaven

the bible says that the wheat and the tares grow side by side, and only God can judge a mans heart, so we do not judge those on earth to be saints in the normal way
though it is true that all believers are saints, and can be called saints, but to point out individuals as saints while still alive opens up a lot of problems, what if we are mistaken or what if they become apostate and great sinners latter in life?

Rhamiel, I would take this a bit further, and state that all who have faith in Christ are "Saints"; both living, and those who are in heaven. We honour and venerate the Saints for what they did in this life, as examples of Christian faith, practice and life for us to emulate.

 

[Rhamiel]

Rhamiel, I would take this a bit further, and state that all who have faith in Christ are "Saints"; both living, and those who are in heaven. We honour and venerate the Saints for what they did in this life, as examples of Christian faith, practice and life for us to emulate.

yes but the wheat and the tares grow side by side in this life, and only God can judge a mans heart, so that is why I do not list those on earth as saints because I am not the true Judge

 

[James4_14]

saints are those who are in heaven

the bible says that the wheat and the tares grow side by side, and only God can judge a mans heart, so we do not judge those on earth to be saints in the normal way
though it is true that all believers are saints, and can be called saints, but to point out individuals as saints while still alive opens up a lot of problems, what if we are mistaken or what if they become apostate and great sinners latter in life?

In fading back you have still left room for much error. You say you do not judge but yet you do.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Rhamiel, I would take this a bit further, and state that all who have faith in Christ are "Saints"; both living, and those who are in heaven. We honour and venerate the Saints for what they did in this life, as examples of Christian faith, practice and life for us to emulate.

 

[Rhamiel]

In fading back you have still left room for much error. You say you do not judge but yet you do.

how so?

 

[James4_14]

how so?

saints are those who are in heaven

How is it that this is determined? You do not rightfully know such is the case with anyone.

We honor and venerate saints for what they did in this life, as examples of Christian faith....

What about Granny? She raised 10 children in a Christian home and helped raise 28 grandchildren the same way. What about the neighbor down the street who always helps people? Must these folks you venerate be of a certain "denominational" persuasion?

Would you venerate Martin Luther? He was a saint, you know.

It is the example of Christ ever set before us we are to emulate...not human beings. We are to strive to be like Him.

 

[James4_14]

The Scriptures set forth the grounds for Christian sainthood:
***1 Cor 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

It will not be through any sanctification of our own. Nor is it because we have the fruits of the spirit to be presented as "holy". It will most assuredly be “in the body of His flesh through death”:

***Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
To be presented “without spot, or wrinkle" or any such thing.... "holy and without blemish”....it is because the Lord Himself “loved the [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]church and gave Himself for it, that He might sanctify and cleanse it”.[/FONT]
***Eph 5:25-27
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

NO ONE has any business designating saints. The church at Corinth, even in their condition, were classified as....SAINTS.

 

[Rhamiel]

Would you venerate Martin Luther? He was a saint, you know.

if i thought Martin Luther was in heaven then I would have no problem asking for him to intercede for me

 

[Standing Up]

saints are those who are in heaven

the bible says that the wheat and the tares grow side by side, and only God can judge a mans heart, so we do not judge those on earth to be saints in the normal way
though it is true that all believers are saints, and can be called saints, but to point out individuals as saints while still alive opens up a lot of problems, what if we are mistaken or what if they become apostate and great sinners latter in life?

It adds to the dilemma of the other mary thread, oddly. We know those who are brothers/sisters on earth, but not those in heaven. No? IOW, if dogma on earth changes, or excommunications pronounced, boom, out goes XYZ (take your pick, if you're EO, you might say bye bye RC. If you're RC, you might say bye bye EO. same w/ P)

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

It adds to the dilemma of the other mary thread, oddly. We know those who are brothers/sisters on earth, but not those in heaven. No? IOW, if dogma on earth changes, or excommunications pronounced, boom, out goes XYZ (take your pick, if you're EO, you might say bye bye RC. If you're RC, you might say bye bye EO. same w/ P)

The title of Saint or calling one a Doctor of Father of the Church is a way of respectfully noting that individual's Christian witness, contribution, and example to the Church catholic (small C intentional). Scripture notes the "Cloud of witnesses"; those of us who commemorate/venerate these heroes of the faith are noting this "Cloud" as Scripture does.

When speaking of a dead loved one; I have heard people say things such as "my sainted aunt"; this shows respect and a steadfast belief that through this person's faith our Lord has called them home.

I agree that while we may not know for sure; if we have faith that we are saved by faith; we must also believe that others are as well. It is indeed a Christian thing to assume that through faith others have been saved, and far safer than assuming those who have had a less than stellar record in the witness department are damned; as we do not know what is in their hearts, nor can we fathom the full extent of God's mercy.

That being said; there have been, and still are many who wear their hearts and their faith "on their sleeve", so we (and the Church) call them as we see them; if for some reason it should turn out that we (and the Church) are wrong bout the disposition of their immortal soul; at least we have extended charity.

 

[James4_14]

if i thought Martin Luther was in heaven then I would have no problem asking for him to intercede for me

You assume much. Jesus is our only intercessor. He is the only one Who has been on Earth that now resides in Heaven.

 

[toLiJC]

there are two main points in the saintliness/sainthood, the first is not to be caused whatever harm to any human, the second is to be expressed perfect love for all humans, but all this should not to be out of God and Jesus

 

[Standing Up]

The title of Saint or calling one a Doctor of Father of the Church is a way of respectfully noting that individual's Christian witness, contribution, and example to the Church catholic (small C intentional). Scripture notes the "Cloud of witnesses"; those of us who commemorate/venerate these heroes of the faith are noting this "Cloud" as Scripture does.

When speaking of a dead loved one; I have heard people say things such as "my sainted aunt"; this shows respect and a steadfast belief that through this person's faith our Lord has called them home.

I agree that while we may not know for sure; if we have faith that we are saved by faith; we must also believe that others are as well. It is indeed a Christian thing to assume that through faith others have been saved, and far safer than assuming those who have had a less than stellar record in the witness department are damned; as we do not know what is in their hearts, nor can we fathom the full extent of God's mercy.

That being said; there have been, and still are many who wear their hearts and their faith "on their sleeve", so we (and the Church) call them as we see them; if for some reason it should turn out that we (and the Church) are wrong bout the disposition of their immortal soul; at least we have extended charity.

Sounds very reasonable.

The odd thing is one wonders whether some on earth ask other saints on earth to pray for them OR whether some only ask those saints in heaven. IOW, some theologies do not allow for saints on earth, but only for saints in heaven. And then as doctrines change on earth, one wonders whether those effect those saints in heaven. See the dilemma?

 

[Rhamiel]

Sounds very reasonable.

The odd thing is one wonders whether some on earth ask other saints on earth to pray for them OR whether some only ask those saints in heaven. IOW, some theologies do not allow for saints on earth, but only for saints in heaven. And then as doctrines change on earth, one wonders whether those effect those saints in heaven. See the dilemma?

i do not know any one else who shares that concern, that someone might get kicked out of heaven?
I am trying to be honest with you, do you really think that is the logical end of my thinking or are you just using hyperbole?

at Mass we have prayer requests where we ask for those in the congregation to pray with us for specific things, we pray for secular and religous leaders, that God might give them wisdom, we pray have been praying for peace in Syria and other places where there is fighting, we ask for prayer requests, so we do ask fellow believers on earth to pray with us and pray for us

 

[SharonL]

The Bible says that all Children of God are saints.

 

[Standing Up]

i do not know any one else who shares that concern, that someone might get kicked out of heaven?

I hadn't thought about it before. But it is a question now. IOW, IF what some groups declare as de fide dogma are necessary to get/remain in heaven AND the Body is One in heaven and earth, THEN those in heaven must agree to a dogma 1800 years after the fact. OR we have to conclude the de fide dogma's are spurious rantings of heretical schismatic men.

I am trying to be honest with you, do you really think that is the logical end of my thinking or are you just using hyperbole?

I don't know how it works. For my part, I believe there is the "faith once delivered". Not the faith developed and defined in 1950. I assume the born-again believer who dies goes to heaven. Our later doctrines have zero to do with them, but that means also with us.

at Mass we have prayer requests where we ask for those in the congregation to pray with us for specific things, we pray for secular and religous leaders, that God might give them wisdom, we pray have been praying for peace in Syria and other places where there is fighting, we ask for prayer requests, so we do ask fellow believers on earth to pray with us and pray for us

Great. Relief. I appreciate that clarification.

The idea just struck me as an explanation to the argument in the other thread. IOW, is there an assumption that those in heaven have more of the ear of God than those of us on earth? If so, then the assumption helps explain why some would want to be able to invoke Peter Paul and Mary in heaven.

 

[James4_14]

if i thought Martin Luther was in heaven then I would have no problem asking for him to intercede for me

Since you seem to convey you have the mind of God....why would you NOT think Martin Luther is in Heaven?
Is this the catholic mindset?

 

[Rhamiel]

Since you seem to convey you have the mind of God....why would you NOT think Martin Luther is in Heaven?
Is this the catholic mindset?

I can not judge, I just ment that I had had no reason to believe that he was in heaven, but I can not judge that he is in hell either, I can not read a mans heart