How do you tell the difference

[Clizby WampusCat]

No, we assign the good and the bad. God loves both equally....it is man who loves the "good" and hate the "bad." God is not like Man. In reality....everything just........Is...

I am not talking about people being good or bad. I am talking about if god thinks actions are bad. Does God think the act of rape is good or bad or neutral?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I notice atheists, in general, ignore that there is a devil and evil spirits. In fact, there seems to be no Satan for atheists, interesting......

Atheists do not believe in God or Satan generally. Why would we?

Instead all evils on earth they put on God. This is not biblical at all. You can not argue against God and ignore Satan and his hordes. They are a big part of the equation.

Can God not stop what Satan does? If He can and does not then who is evil? If He cannot then He is not ion charge. There are enough immoral things God does in the Bible that He does not need Satan anyway.

To know the difference would be understanding more about Satan and his hordes and how they operate. God does not author evil. He is good.

How do you know God is good? Why can't He be lying to you about His goodness?

[Psa 25:8 NIV] 8 Good and upright is the LORD; therefore he instructs sinners in his ways.

The world and all that goes on are very complicated. There are many, many layers that we don't see nor understand. The Lord doesn't do evil, but that doesn't mean he can't utilize evil spirits against evildoers. He can give them permission even against good people as he did with Job. [Job 1:6-22]

We also get a glimpse of this here.

[The wholes story is 1Ki 22:1-40 KJV]

[1Ki 22:19-23, 34-35 KJV] 19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. 20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. 21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. 22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade [him], and prevail also: go forth, and do so. 23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
... 34 And a [certain] man drew a bow at a venture, and smote the king of Israel between the joints of the harness: wherefore he said unto the driver of his chariot, Turn thine hand, and carry me out of the host; for I am wounded. 35 And the battle increased that day: and the king was stayed up in his chariot against the Syrians, and died at even: and the blood ran out of the wound into the midst of the chariot.

Most Bible stories and situations don't give you the "behind the scenes" of what's really going on. God is active for the good of all. Yet evil people bring evil on themselves.

It was the false prophets who were "prophesying" lies, which in turn took Ahab to his demise. Do you see the evil spirits in their mouths, of course not? The same way we don't see how active evil is in the world.

When we do not understand the intricacies of what is going on and the depravity of the human heart, it's easy to take cheap shots at God for any and every situation. He has nothing to hide or such verses that atheists use against him, he could have omitted from being in the Bible.

[Jer 17:9 NIV] 9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?

Jesus said, [Jhn 10:10 NIV] 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

[1Pe 5:8 NIV] 8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

We can see this clearly unless of course you still follow him.

[Eph 2:2 NIV] in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

[2Co 4:4 KJV] 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

(...remember the song, To Hell With The Devil?)

Just stop. I do not follow Satan. You are another Christain telling others what they believe in instead of listening to them. This does not answer my question of how do you tell the difference between a good God and a bad God that is lying to you.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

How does anyone determine what is ' good ' or ' bad ' behaviour?

Please supply the reasoning for your moral standards and explain how they are different from the standards set out by the Christian God.

In summary my subjective standard is Well Being. To maximize well being for all. With that standard I can then objectively analyze actions to see if they would further or hinder that goal.

We can discuss the subjective standard but most people generally agree it is a reasonable good starting point.

It is different than gods because it uses logic and reason to determine what is moral not just an assertion from a god. It is also different because it can change depending on the situation.

It can be used to see if Gods morals maximize well being or not and determine if a god has good morals or not.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Jesus is God, does Jesus seem bad to you?

If Jesus is God and is responsible for what God has done in the bible then yes Jesus has done bad things.

 

[bling]

Why would a good God allow an Israelite to own another person as property and be able to be handed down as property without the persons consent?

We do not know what it was really like 3000 years ago among the Jews. God established system was the release of all slaves every 7 years on the year of Jubilee. It was to be more like a limited contract employment. This was not to be like when the Jews were slaves in Egypt or what we have experienced in the last 1000 years.

Why would a good god require a rapist to marry their victim without any say by the victim?

This takes a very lengthy complicated response, because in general, you can ask: “Why does a good God allow anything bad to happen.” Your specific question has to do with God not allowing the women victims to have a say, yet her not having a say has been the norm throughout time, women rarely had a say about who they marry. In the larger scheme of things, does it help for the woman to have a say in who she marries? Arranged marriages today have much fewer divorces and women seem just as happy. Having a woman have a say in whom, she will marry, has resulted in the West with lots more bad marriages. All women of an arranged marriage are victims and as such might feel they just have to make the best of it.

Take it a step further for the woman: they cannot be blamed for having a bad husband, so they are not held by God accountable for selecting a bad husband. Neither did they select their parent or where they would be born. The one big thing is salvation, humbly accepting God’s charity as charity in this short life. If we live long enough, we all go through tragedies, which should actually help us turn to the Creator for help, so that can be the case for women.

I will leave it with that.

Why would a good God punish future generations for the sins of the current generation?

God does not do that.

The bible shows God doing good and bad things not just loving and helping things.

The “bad things” are actually helping willing humans to fulfill they earthly objective.

 

[RaymondG]

I am not talking about people being good or bad. I am talking about if god thinks actions are bad. Does God think the act of rape is good or bad or neutral?

No, God's ways are not man's ways..neither are His thoughts man's thoughts. Man seeks to judge first.....not God.

God would advise against such actions, stating the consequences thereof, and allow you to choose whether you desire blessings, or curses...

 

[Halbhh]

How do you tell the difference between a good god and a bad god that is lying about being a good god? Christians refer to the Bible to indicate that God is good. Why isn't the possibility that God is bad and telling us he is good in the bible plausible? How would you know?

How do you know or notice or decide or experience in yourself that something is 'good', for you?

If you think on that things are 'good', for you, can you generalize about them? For instance, would you say: that which gives me a lasting increase in energy, or good feeling? Or more generalized == that which supports or increases the overall enjoyment and flourishing in life for the people as a whole. ?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

How do you tell the difference between a good god and a bad god that is lying about being a good god? Christians refer to the Bible to indicate that God is good. Why isn't the possibility that God is bad and telling us he is good in the bible plausible? How would you know?

Probably the same way I'd try to tell the difference between a good skeptic and a bad skeptic who is lying about being a good skeptic.

 

[RaymondG]

Interesting..... I like spinach.....so putting it in front of me at dinner would be a good thing for me..... yet some people would consider it bad and a punishment... Maybe it is best not the judge the spinach at all.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

We do not know what it was really like 3000 years ago among the Jews. God established system was the release of all slaves every 7 years on the year of Jubilee. It was to be more like a limited contract employment. This was not to be like when the Jews were slaves in Egypt or what we have experienced in the last 1000 years.

No you don't know what the bible says on this issue. Only Hebrew slaves were released at Jubilee. Non Hebrew slaves were slaves for life and could be handed down as property to the next generation. God allowed the Isrealites to take people from the nations around them to be slaves against their will and be slaves for life.

This takes a very lengthy complicated response, because in general, you can ask: “Why does a good God allow anything bad to happen.” Your specific question has to do with God not allowing the women victims to have a say, yet her not having a say has been the norm throughout time, women rarely had a say about who they marry. In the larger scheme of things, does it help for the woman to have a say in who she marries? Arranged marriages today have much fewer divorces and women seem just as happy. Having a woman have a say in whom, she will marry, has resulted in the West with lots more bad marriages. All women of an arranged marriage are victims and as such might feel they just have to make the best of it.

Take it a step further for the woman: they cannot be blamed for having a bad husband, so they are not held by God accountable for selecting a bad husband. Neither did they select their parent or where they would be born. The one big thing is salvation, humbly accepting God’s charity as charity in this short life. If we live long enough, we all go through tragedies, which should actually help us turn to the Creator for help, so that can be the case for women.

I will leave it with that.

So you agree that a woman should be forced to marry her rapist because they are not good enough at deciding for themselves who they should marry. Wow.

God does not do that.

God did just that Ex 20:5, numbers 14:18, Ex34:6-7.

The “bad things” are actually helping willing humans to fulfill they earthly objective.

What do you mean?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

No, God's ways are not man's ways..neither are His thoughts man's thoughts. Man seeks to judge first.....not God.

God would advise against such actions, stating the consequences thereof, and allow you to choose whether you desire blessings, or curses...

If you can choose curses or blessings then god does know between good and bad.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

How do you know or notice or decide or experience in yourself that something is 'good', for you?

If you think on that things are 'good', for you, can you generalize about them? For instance, would you say: that which gives me a lasting increase in energy, or good feeling? Or more generalized == that which supports or increases the overall enjoyment and flourishing in life for the people as a whole. ?

Something like that. But not just feeling good. Good can be something that makes me feel good but it can also mean something that advances the well being of myself or others not at the expense of others. The best moral thing to do is that which maximizes the well being of all involved. This should probably be a separate thread.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Probably the same way I'd try to tell the difference between a good skeptic and a bad skeptic who is lying about being a good skeptic.

What way is that?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What way is that?

See if I get stabbed in the back.

 

[RaymondG]

If you can choose curses or blessings then god does know between good and bad.

We all raise our children and teach them the ways we think are right. We show them the "good" and the "bad" (blessing and curses) and tell them that they should choose the good. Just like God does with us.

If, after they leave the house, they choose to do wrong....does that mean the parent did not know the difference between good and bad? I think not.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

We all raise our children and teach them the ways we think are right. We show them the "good" and the "bad" (blessing and curses) and tell them that they should choose the good. Just like God does with us.

If, after they leave the house, they choose to do wrong....does that mean the parent did not know the difference between good and bad? I think not.

so god does know the difference between good and bad. How does he know the difference?

 

[RaymondG]

so god does know the difference between good and bad. How does he know the difference?

He knows what we consider good and bad.....and gives us what we desire....whatever the desire may be.
He doesnt judge between the two.

If you plant an apple seed.....He will produce Apples for you....even if you happen to be allergic to apple....He will still deliver many apples to you......because it is what you told him you desired, with the planting of your seed.

To the allergic, an apple is bad........To God......it is just an apple...and a desire delivered.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

He knows what we consider good and bad.....and gives us what we desire....whatever the desire may be.
He doesnt judge between the two.

If you plant an apple seed.....He will produce Apples for you....even if you happen to be allergic to apple....He will still deliver many apples to you......because it is what you told him you desired, with the planting of your seed.

To the allergic, an apple is bad........To God......it is just an apple...and a desire delivered.

Now you are contradicting yourself. This is what you said in the previous post:

We all raise our children and teach them the ways we think are right. We show them the "good" and the "bad" (blessing and curses) and tell them that they should choose the good. Just like God does with us.

You said parents teach us good and bad just like god does. So how does God know what is good and bad?

 

[Paul4JC]

Atheists do not believe in God or Satan generally. Why would we?

Can God not stop what Satan does? If He can and does not then who is evil? If He cannot then He is not ion charge. There are enough immoral things God does in the Bible that He does not need Satan anyway.

How do you know God is good? Why can't He be lying to you about His goodness?
Just stop. I do not follow Satan. You are another Christain telling others what they believe in instead of listening to them. This does not answer my question of how do you tell the difference between a good God and a bad God that is lying to you.

I never said you followed Satan. Just showing verses explaining how Satan and his evil hordes work. You should re-read and understand his role in anything. It would be a major mistake to blame one for crimes that the other is guilty of. Yet we know this happens. It's difficult, other than giving verses that explain it better than I can, to explain how the "Master of Puppets," Satan controls this world and all that goes on in.

In time Satan will be fully stopped, but he still out to destroy everything and he knows his time is short.

[Rev 12:12 NIV] 12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."

[The Prisoner is a great song by IM]

One may not believe in God or Satan, but to attack one and ignore the other is only a half argument and pointless. If you attack God you need to do so in full context. Cherry-picking Bible verses is like malpractice whether you are a Christian or not. Like any story or movie, you got to understand the whole story not half. Otherwise, it's a futile exercise.

 

[Paul4JC]

Yeah, study this verse too...

[2Co 11:14 NIV] And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.