How do you plan to escape HELL???

[Renton405]

Just curious...would you even say that Gandhi wasn't innocent? If so, then why? (And no, I will not accept "because he wasn't a Christian" as a valid answer.)

No Ghandi was not innocent. you do not know what he did behind curtains. If he died without the blood of Christ he is in Hell..

P.S. - Ghandi was known to be a pedofile and there is evidence he has slept with many underagers. He was also known to be a racist towards blacks.. I suggest you read on it

 

[igotbegot]

I'm going to beat the devil's chief guitar guru in a battle of rock solo's.

/points for anyone that gets the reference.

 

[Renton405]

Matthew 25 seems to suggest otherwise. Apparently having the supposed "right theology" bes not the grand key to it all that some suppose it to be.

As a matter of fact, it recalls Paul & co. having no small bit of trouble with a rival sect back in NT times, the gnostics, who believed that salvation bes a matter of having the "right knowledge". Many fundamentalist-literalist positions today seem to echo that sentiment, that salvation bes determined by whether you have the right knowledge or the right beliefs. The JC of the Gospels sure seems to suggest otherwise, strongly, on numerous occasions -- Matthew 25 being but one of the most clear of these.

Scripture says no one comes to the Father but by Christ. It does NOT stipulate that this process depends upon their personal perceptions of it nor even their awareness of it. It bes interesting to read Matthew 7 in this light ....

[bible]Matthew 7:17-23[/bible]

And there you have it. A bad tree CANNOT produce good fruit -- so if Ghandi had been a "bad tree" (destined for destruction) he would not have lived as he lived.
Not all who say "Lord, Lord" (believe in JC as Lord, obviously) enter the kingdom, but those what DO the will of the Father. By their fruits you shall know them. Even if he never once named the name of JC as "LORD" with his lips, Ghandi lived a life that proclaimed JC as Lord, and that matters far more.

Don't take Moriah's word for it. It's there in the Bible.

Problem is,, is that Jesus is the living vine of the world. If you are not grafted into the vine its impossible to even bear fruit..Your fruits only matter until AFTER you repent..A seed cannot grow unless it is nurished and has life in it. Without christ the seed is dead..You must be grafted into the living vine (Christ) in order to have life and bear fruit. Once you repent your good works aren't just normal human works anymore, but supernatural works in christ.. Read about sanctifying grace.. Fruits and works only matter until AFTER repentance. Works without belief in christ are nothing but dirty rags and can not earn your way into heaven..

To hear His voice (recognize truth) bes indicative that one does not lack sight.

Jesus is the light of the world. Without Christ you are in darkness and are a wandering hopeless person. You need light to see where you are going. Christ is the only true light of this world.. Without Christ you cannot see and stumble..

why would i want to escape Hell? It freaking rocks.

think about it, you got sex, drugs, rocknroll. 24 hour brazilian BBQ. And no worry about disease or ODing.

heck Hell is an awesome place. HEaven you got one big stick in the mud that is WAY to concerned about you having sex. And no fig trees too.

*sigh*.. please for your sake listen to me. Hell is not a party. It is absolutely awful. There is no partying or any happiness. Just pain , sorrow and dispair which will tear away at you for all eternity. It is truely the greatest loss one could ever have. The true losers are the ones who will end up there..

There is this book called "Hell" by F.X. Schouppe. It is a very eye opening and scary book because it involves people who have died and come back. Many of them very rare storys..Its only like 2 bux used and definatly worth the money http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Plus-How-Avoid/dp/0895553465

 

[stan1980]

Ghandi was known to be a pedofile and there is evidence he has slept with many underagers. He was also known to be a racist towards blacks.. I suggest you read on it

Perhaps you could back up your claims with evidence? I had a brief look on google and found nothing.

Incidentally, where did Pope Eugene IV get the idea that all non roman catholics will end up in hell? I assume you know, otherwise you wouldn't quote him.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

why would i want to escape Hell? It freaking rocks.

think about it, you got sex, drugs, rocknroll. 24 hour brazilian BBQ. And no worry about disease or ODing.

heck Hell is an awesome place. HEaven you got one big stick in the mud that is WAY to concerned about you having sex. And no fig trees too.

*sigh*.. please for your sake listen to me. Hell is not a party. It is absolutely awful. There is no partying or any happiness. Just pain , sorrow and dispair which will tear away at you for all eternity. It is truely the greatest loss one could ever have. The true losers are the ones who will end up there..

Say Renton, how's about in the future if you bes going to mash quotes together from DIFFERENT persons, you bes so kind as to attribute them to their proper authors. It does NOT appreciate you tagging on the above to quoting MORIAH'S post as if Moriah had written the above quote. That bes a misrepresentation and constitutes a breach of the 9th commandment even if it bes not deliberate on your part but an oversight. (If deliberate it constitutes outright dishonesty.)

Would appreciate if you would go back & correct that. Thanks.

As for your response, some of us bes willing to die for what we believe in, and would rather go to hell than spend eternity worshipping the abusive control-freak torturing monster some people palm off as "God". Fortunately we have JC to prove that bes not God at all, but unfortunately through the centuries many of His "followers" have conveniently re-written what He supposedly "really" meant to try to recast HIM in the mold of the abusive control-freak torturing monster too.

Going back to HIS original words helps parse things out for seekers and separate the truth of HIM from the lies of His centuries-old lousy PR campaign (which more or less paints Him like a divine mafioso -- "I have done everything for you, now obey Me or I will have you whacked.") -- but it doesn't help when people come along needing so badly to prove their point that they ruin the entire effort just because they don't care for the particular example used to do it or the one ordained to do it. Whichever. Either way, just not good Kingdom Teamwork.

 

[Eudaimonist]

*sigh*.. please for your sake listen to me. Hell is not a party.

Do you understand that when someone writes that sort of thing, they are simply making light of your fantasy world.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[morningstar2651]

Matthew 25 seems to suggest otherwise. Apparently having the supposed "right theology" bes not the grand key to it all that some suppose it to be.

As a matter of fact, it recalls Paul & co. having no small bit of trouble with a rival sect back in NT times, the gnostics, who believed that salvation bes a matter of having the "right knowledge". Many fundamentalist-literalist positions today seem to echo that sentiment, that salvation bes determined by whether you have the right knowledge or the right beliefs. The JC of the Gospels sure seems to suggest otherwise, strongly, on numerous occasions -- Matthew 25 being but one of the most clear of these.

Scripture says no one comes to the Father but by Christ. It does NOT stipulate that this process depends upon their personal perceptions of it nor even their awareness of it. It bes interesting to read Matthew 7 in this light ....

[bible]Matthew 7:17-23[/bible]

And there you have it. A bad tree CANNOT produce good fruit -- so if Ghandi had been a "bad tree" (destined for destruction) he would not have lived as he lived.
Not all who say "Lord, Lord" (believe in JC as Lord, obviously) enter the kingdom, but those what DO the will of the Father. By their fruits you shall know them. Even if he never once named the name of JC as "LORD" with his lips, Ghandi lived a life that proclaimed JC as Lord, and that matters far more.

Don't take Moriah's word for it. It's there in the Bible.

In a nutshell:

Actions speak far louder than words.

 

[Mrs.Sidhe]

Matthew 25 seems to suggest otherwise. Apparently having the supposed "right theology" bes not the grand key to it all that some suppose it to be.

As a matter of fact, it recalls Paul & co. having no small bit of trouble with a rival sect back in NT times, the gnostics, who believed that salvation bes a matter of having the "right knowledge". Many fundamentalist-literalist positions today seem to echo that sentiment, that salvation bes determined by whether you have the right knowledge or the right beliefs. The JC of the Gospels sure seems to suggest otherwise, strongly, on numerous occasions -- Matthew 25 being but one of the most clear of these.

Scripture says no one comes to the Father but by Christ. It does NOT stipulate that this process depends upon their personal perceptions of it nor even their awareness of it. It bes interesting to read Matthew 7 in this light ....

[bible]Matthew 7:17-23[/bible]

And there you have it. A bad tree CANNOT produce good fruit -- so if Ghandi had been a "bad tree" (destined for destruction) he would not have lived as he lived.
Not all who say "Lord, Lord" (believe in JC as Lord, obviously) enter the kingdom, but those what DO the will of the Father. By their fruits you shall know them. Even if he never once named the name of JC as "LORD" with his lips, Ghandi lived a life that proclaimed JC as Lord, and that matters far more.

Don't take Moriah's word for it. It's there in the Bible.

QFET= Quoted for EXTREME truth

Best...Post..Ever!!!!

 

[sidhe]

Problem is,, is that Jesus is the living vine of the world. If you are not grafted into the vine its impossible to even bear fruit..Your fruits only matter until AFTER you repent..A seed cannot grow unless it is nurished and has life in it. Without christ the seed is dead..You must be grafted into the living vine (Christ) in order to have life and bear fruit. Once you repent your good works aren't just normal human works anymore, but supernatural works in christ.. Read about sanctifying grace.. Fruits and works only matter until AFTER repentance. Works without belief in christ are nothing but dirty rags and can not earn your way into heaven..

Fine. Now demonstrate that scripturally, as Moriah demonstrated her position. Preferably using the red words. Those are the important words.

 

[Mrs.Sidhe]

Fine. Now demonstrate that scripturally, as Moriah demonstrated her position. Preferably using the red words. Those are the important words.

Yes, I've been waiting for this as well. It might be interesting if someone actually does it.....

 

[Mrs.Sidhe]

Yes, I do believe he is in Hell.

The Bible says none can be with the Father, in other words be in Heaven, without Christ Jesus. If Gandhi didn't believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior then I believe what the Bible says that he will not be in Heaven.

Yes, I do believe it matters THAT much.

Funny thing is Gandhi acted more like Christ then some "Christians"....

So you are saying if people who claim they are Christians but fail to even follow his teachings--or at the very least try to be "Christ-like" they go to heaven anyway because they are "Christian".

I don't think so...

As Moriah Quoted from Matthew--Not everyone who cries "Lord, Lord!" shall enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Criada]

But fortunately for those of us who remain imperfect, we go to heaven because of what Christ did, not what we do!

 

[KarrieTex]

Funny thing is Gandhi acted more like Christ then some "Christians"....

So you are saying if people who claim they are Christians but fail to even follow his teachings--or at the very least try to be "Christ-like" they go to heaven anyway because they are "Christian".

I don't think so...

As Moriah Quoted from Matthew--Not everyone who cries "Lord, Lord!" shall enter the kingdom of heaven.

In the example of Gandhi...nope he is not in heaven. If he did not accept Christ as Lord and Savior, then he will NOT spend eternity in Heaven.

Plain and simple. If you do not accept Christ as Lord and Savior and repent, you will not be in heaven for eternity.

 

[uberd00b]

c: godmode

IDDQD.

 

[uberd00b]

But fortunately for those of us who remain imperfect, we go to heaven because of what Christ did, not what we do!

I would have to disagree here. I know the Bible suggests that in some parts (and suggests the opposite in others), but I think this reflects more on the the poor quality of revelation in the Bible, than on God itself.

What I mean is the injustice of "faith not works", though it would appear to make God less than human, actually affirms the Bible as a slightly sullied (by humans) text (and leaves God in the clear).

 

[uberd00b]

God hates figs

Hahahahaha!

Genius.

 

[uberd00b]

*sigh*.. please for your sake listen to me. Hell is not a party. It is absolutely awful. There is no partying or any happiness. Just pain , sorrow and dispair which will tear away at you for all eternity. It is truely the greatest loss one could ever have. The true losers are the ones who will end up there..

To be honest the true loser would be the being who was so incapable of understanding justice that it created such a place. I would have pity on anyone who lacked enough of an understanding of right and wrong (like we humans have) to see that such a place is a horrific and unwarranted evil in existence.

 

[Ramona]

I believe Jesus made it pretty clear that living a life of self-sacrificial love and service to others is what following Him actually is. There are plenty of verses like the one you mentioned throughout the Gospels.

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” John 13: 34-35

In regards to this verse:

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6

If we attempt to understand this verse without our spiritual lens, and try to tie it to western ideas of "objective/literal" truth, Jesus comes across as being somewhat of an egomaniac.

But if we understand Jesus as being the very embodiment of truth, indeed, Love itself, we realize that when we have love toward others, we align ourselves with Him, and therefore become One with the God(truth), just like Him.

I think John understood that Jesus' way of Compassion, sacrifice, service and grace is not a way, or some way, or part of the way, but the Way. And anyone who lives in this way is a follower of Christ.

If we look at it like this, these statements come out not as "It's either my way or the highway", but rather, "It doesn't matter how you describe it, there is only one Truth... not one for me and none for you, but you and I, after all our sinning against each other, all our wandering and suffering, are ultimately connected to this One source of all Life and Love."

or something...

Also, I consider myself "Gnostic",(even though I don't place an awful lot of value on labels) but someone who claims to "know", and doesn't manifest this inner knowledge outwardly through Love, probably doesn't really "know" to begin with.

Brilliant, as usual. Amen!

 

[Twilight777]

Oh, wow that was long. I would try to climb out of it, but then again try and not go to Hell in the first place.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

In the example of Gandhi...nope he is not in heaven.

You have no basis for this assertion. (Nor does anyone.) You have not been appointed the Judge over mankind (nor have any of us) nor has God died and left His throne to you (or anyone else here) in His will. Nor do you possess a 100% perfect, infallible, flawless, all-encompassing, omnisicent, objective God's-eye view of all reality and all eternity (neither does anyone else).

(It put the "anyone else" clauses in there so you would not feel personally singled out and picked on as it knows you bes sensitive to that.)

Plain and simple. If you do not accept Christ as Lord and Savior and repent, you will not be in heaven for eternity.

Our salvation does not depend on what WE do. It depends entirely on what HE has done for us. Repentance and acceptance of JC as Lord/Saviour bes not conditions of salvation, but responses TO it.