It does not say God afflicted Job. It says God agreed to let Satan afflict Job. Very different thing! That's the twisted lie Satan is poisoning you with.
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I've asked before: How has anything I mentioned from the book of Job been misquoted? I completely agree that the devil, and many men, can misquote scripture. However, the scripture itself declares that God is the one responsible for afflicting us. How do you reconcile this with Word of Faith teachings? I am unable to.
It does not say God afflicted Job. It says God agreed to let Satan afflict Job. Very different thing! That's the twisted lie Satan is poisoning you with.
As I stated in my post, the literal understanding of Job 1:8 is different from what most other translations say:
And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary, `Hast thou set thy heart against My servant Job because there is none like him in the land, a man perfect and upright, fearing God, and turning aside from evil?' (Young's Literal Translation)Albert Barnes says that this is the correct translation and wrote, "that it means more than merely to observe or to look at - since it is abundantly manifest from the following verses that Satan "had" attentively considered Job, and had been desirous of injuring him"
And Jehovah said to Satan, Have you set your heart against My servant Job, because there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and upright man, one who fears God and turns away from evil? (Modern King James)
Satan already had Job in his rifle scope and was looking for an opportunity to destroy him. So what does he do? He accuses God of buying Job's worship through His blessings, thus castigating God's character in front of the rest of the universe.
So God could either destroy Satan right there, thus continuing to leave doubt in the mind of the rest of the angels that perhaps Satan was right (and Satan would have won his objective) or let Satan prove his case and lose (which he did).
Satan acknowledges, unlike so many people, that God is the one blessing and protecting His people. Satan has better insight into God's ways (and thus tries to twist them) than many Christians I know.
It does not say God afflicted Job. It says God agreed to let Satan afflict Job. Very different thing! That's the twisted lie Satan is poisoning you with.
What's the difference? For real???? God ALLOWED satan to torment Job because satan said, "Oh, by the way God, if you allow me to make his life miserable, he'll curse you!" So God, in order to gain some sort of kudos, told the devil, " I'll show you! You can make Job's life a living hell and torment him where he can't even sleep without having night terrors while he's in unbelievable physical anguish with boils all over his body - not to mention the emotional suffering of losing each and every one of his children and the stress of the collapse of his livelihood - for the sole purpose of proving to you (satan) that he won't curse me????" For REAL?
That's like a father that would hire a rapist to come and rape his daughter to prove to the rapist that even though he ALLOWED the rapest to come and voilate his daughter's innocence, she would love her daddy even though he didn't protect her. That's freaking sick!
Hmmm. I'll be praying for you sir.Yes it is.
I have greatly lost faith in God/Jesus over this. If I'm nothing but a plaything or a gambling object in a wager between God and Satan, I don't want to worship a God like that.
What's the point?
I'm not sure what he'd say. Probably something similar to taking up my cross and denying myself and what I want.
Yes it is.
I have greatly lost faith in God/Jesus over this. If I'm nothing but a plaything or a gambling object in a wager between God and Satan, I don't want to worship a God like that.
What's the point?
James 5:11
We count those blessed who endured. You have heard of the endurance of Job and have seen the outcome of the Lords dealings, that the Lord is full of compassion and is merciful.
According to James 5:11 you are missing something in your analysis.
What are you missing?
For me, there are a few things that help me overcome my bitterness towards God.
Firstly, whenever I feel disappointed in God, I remember He is my creator. He makes me and creates me, so He has every right to decide what will happen and what will not. He determines everything and who am I to argue with Him? I am his created being, and just being alive is a testament itself of His love towards me.
Secondly, I tried to remember every single moment of my life, when God has been good to me. I tried to bring into my memories all my past encounters with Him, and all the joy and happiness I used to have with Him, before the bitter incident occurs.
I'd like to suggest that the L-rd is intimately acquainted with every aspect of our individual characters...He knows the areas in which we have moved on, overcome and developed character and faith, and He sees our weaknesses and darker sides that are susceptible to sin and unbelief...but my dear friend, He loves us...He loves us...He loves us.
I know that when we are going through hard times, hearing about other peoples struggles is often little comfort because it is removed from our immediate concerns and anxieties....but I promise you that if you spend time with G-d...and allow His words of truth to minister to you, there will be a change, and you will get answers and help.
I believe that one of the ways we draw close to G-d is not just by sitting on our own and hoping to hear a voice directly from Heaven, but by getting into the word of G-d and reading/digesting His truth...Jews believe the highest form of worship is reading Scripture. Also, we are all in this race together, and G-d places us in a Body of Believers to help and encourage us along the way...this means being open and real, which I hope is happening in unburdening yourself here.
In my darkest moments, I have never found religious answers to the cries of my heart...I have discovered the closeness and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, encouragement and personal revelation in Scripture, and the love of several good friends.
14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. 16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
Hmmm. I'll be praying for you sir.
First, even if this were so (even if Calvinism is correct and Free Will falters) we must understand that God is God and He loves you.
But rest assured that the Bible does not speak of a wager between God and Satan. Satan is a created being, not an equal to God who sits over tea making wagers. Satan has nothing to wager with: he already has lost everything; his end is already written.
The problem is that you are reading from a misconception of Job outward and letting that misconception blur and muddy the rest of your interpretation. Before approaching God in the book of Job look at who He is in the rest of scripture: He is love, He is truth. He is kindness and longsuffering; He is helper. He is Jehovah Jirah, the God that healeth thee -- not a God that maketh you sick and hurt. Look at all the names for God and you will find only one that appears to be "negative," but it isn't: the God that smiteth is speaking of Judgement -- for perfect holiness and truth requires that those who choose to reject God be judged.
Like a child who gets angry at Mom for not letting him do something or have something that he does not understand the consequences of, we must realize that Mom still loves the child -- even if the little child has turned his back and broods. God still loves you no matter how much you have "lost faith" and no matter how much you think you "don't want to worship" Him.
He is patient. He loves you and if you are saved, and I believe you are, then He has sealed you with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Quit sulking and look to the bible (outside the book of Job -- in fact, get into the New Testament; or if you must stay in the Old try Psalm 91) for the character of God. Quit looking for what appears to be bad -- you'll find whatever it is you look for, even if it truly isn't there.
God is good. He loves you. He wants you to be whole and in peace. He want for you: shalom -- prosperity, nothing missing, nothing broken. Wholeness. Fullness. Love.
That was James' opinion. I fail to see how killing Job's children, taking all his money, his health and his joy was a blessing. Do you?
That was James' opinion.
Funny how you place so much stake in the Scriptures in Job - yet easily dismiss Scripture in James as "his opinion". It is almost like you have an answer already in your head and are looking for Scripture to support it. As was mentioned earlier - you typically find what you are looking for.
Sorry, I wasn't calling you that although I acquiesce that my words do seem to indicate that.I'm not a Calvinist. I am simply a Christian who is willing to accept Word of Faith teachings. I'm not looking for religious answers, I want the truth. Which is why I go to the bible.
No so. Job was the one responsible for his affliction because he chose to fear and walk in the curse.If God was not making wagers with Satan and Satan had no power, then God was clearly the one responsible for afflicting Job.
The bible is clear that God is good and wants only wholeness for His children. He is not out to hurt you; nor does He use the curse to teach you -- He's much smarter and more efficient to have to resort to that.Satan could not make God do anything he did not already want to do, correct? If so, then God did, in fact, bring all that evil on Job. And Job was probably a better man than I will ever be, so if God does that to his favourites, where do I come out? (That is also a frightening thought.)
Your being myopic in the book of Job. And you are working your theology from the book of Job outward, instead of beginning with the whole of scripture, understanding God and the choices we have and then applying these truths to Job. Scripture must agree with scripture. Beginning INSIDE of Job and working outward leads to the misunderstanding and false dichotomy that you currently have. Yes, a frightening place to be.I don't see any of those good statements you made in the book of Job. I only see God as bullying Job, afflicting him, taking almost everything from him, to prove something to Satan and in the end, he refuses to even offer Job any sort of explanation for his suffering. How is any part of that loving?
This would be a true statement, for God is not a respector of persons. But God did not afflict Job; Job walked into the curse and opened the door for affliction to come upon him. God allowed that free choice for He is not a puppet master to stop you from your choices. Sorry, but you are allowed to make ill advised choices in this world if you are either ignorant of God's truth or you willfully decide to reject God's goodness.If God afflicted Job, then he will surely afflict me, and all believers.
Smiting? Sure. Jehovah Naheh, the God that smiteth. This is judgement. This is for those who refuse to bow before the Lord. But look at all the names of God and find me one other that can be seen as 'negative.' The judgement of smiting shall never come to His children; it is for the unbeliever.God did a lot of smiting in the old testament and his nature never changes. We have much to fear from God.
Job is your bible. You have found your presupposed "correctness" in your misinterpretation therein.As do you. So that's your answer?
Since no one has been able to even address the issue at hand, then I would assume I am correct on the matter. Thanks.
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