How do you make them talk?

[Lessien]

If you're gonna get a tatoo that you don't want anybody to see....get it in a place people normally don't see---but then again WHY get the tatoo in the first place?!?!

I know! If your parents don't like tatoos, then the whole point of getting one is so that you can flaunt it, use it as a form of rebellion. And if you get it and then hide it, then getting the tatoo was a total waste. So....did Arya get the tatoo because she wanted to spend money on something useless, or what?

 

[Netbug009]

Just be real. Make your characters sound like normal people. Try looking through your character's eyes.

 

[oncewaslost]

One must also keep in mind that conversation in books doesn't always work like real life. In a book conversations MUST be much more focused than they are in real life. One must also realize that facial expressions cannot be expressed nearly as well in a book, therefore the dialouge must at least partially reflect that. There's also a degree to which the characters need to say things that people wouldn't normally say in real life.

i disagree. the whole point of writing a story is to show and not tell. if you're only writing from one point of view, your character won't know what the other is thinking/feeling and therefore, the reader shouldn't know as well. you have to keep some things hidden to keep the reader interested. if you know everything, why read it? besides, people go through life every day not understanding every spoken conversation.

 

[Tariel]

i disagree. the whole point of writing a story is to show and not tell. if you're only writing from one point of view, your character won't know what the other is thinking/feeling and therefore, the reader shouldn't know as well. you have to keep some things hidden to keep the reader interested. if you know everything, why read it? besides, people go through life every day not understanding every spoken conversation.

Real life conversation often goes like this:

"I--"
"I understand."
"Really?"
"Yeah. Don't worry. It'll be fine."
"Thanks."

Put this in a story and you'll loose the reader. The reader comes away still having no idea what's going on or what these people are talking about. Now, there are two ways to handle this. One, of course, would be to explain what they're talking about in the narration, but that is clumsy. The writer should never have to explain himself or herself to the reader. The preferred alternitive would be to write conversation that is only to include a little mit more information in the conversation.

"I--"
"I understand. You're upset because Mike left you, aren't you."
"Yeah."
"It's ok. Don't worry--it'll all work out."

A reader doesn't like being lost. Most readers like having a general understanding of what's going on. My friends and I are professional book reviewers. We've all read good books and horrible ones. I know what awkward dialouge looks like.

 

[oncewaslost]

true, but usually there's some kind of hint before someone just starts talking. that's the point of narrative and it is possible to have that without being "clumsy." some event would prelude the conversation in question. you don't just read dialogue. dialogue and narration go hand in hand. can't have one without the other.

 

[Tariel]

true, but usually there's some kind of hint before someone just starts talking. that's the point of narrative and it is possible to have that without being "clumsy." some event would prelude the conversation in question. you don't just read dialogue. dialogue and narration go hand in hand. can't have one without the other.

Not as often as you'd think. Yes, you need some narration in conversation, but it should be scarce.

 

[oncewaslost]

eh, everyone has different writing styles.

 

[Lessien]

I prefer a happy medium between

"Hey, Jake," Samantha said, eyes downcast, voice strained.
"What's wrong?" he said, concerned. He put a hand on her shoulder.
"Nothing, nothing at all," she said, brushing his hand away and walking off.

AND

"Hey, Jake."
"What's wrong, Sam?"
"Nothing. Nothing at all."

Nothing's wrong with either of those styles, and I can enjoy reading both. But as for writing my own dialogue, I prefer something along the lines of

"Hey, Jake," Samantha said, staring at the floor.
"What's wrong?"
"Nothing, nothing at all." She brushed his hand off her shoulder and walked away.

Why? I don't know. I guess the last one just seems most natural to me, or maybe it's easiest to write.

 

[Tariel]

I prefer a happy medium between

"Hey, Jake," Samantha said, eyes downcast, voice strained.
"What's wrong?" he said, concerned. He put a hand on her shoulder.
"Nothing, nothing at all," she said, brushing his hand away and walking off.

AND

"Hey, Jake."
"What's wrong, Sam?"
"Nothing. Nothing at all."

Nothing's wrong with either of those styles, and I can enjoy reading both. But as for writing my own dialogue, I prefer something along the lines of

"Hey, Jake," Samantha said, staring at the floor.
"What's wrong?"
"Nothing, nothing at all." She brushed his hand off her shoulder and walked away.

Why? I don't know. I guess the last one just seems most natural to me, or maybe it's easiest to write.

I'm sorry....I guess you guys just don't get what I'm trying to say here. What I have a problem with is people who write things like:

"Josh...." Tears filled Elizabeth's eyes. She was sad because yesterday her brother fell off a cliff while hiking in the woods. Meanwhile, Elizabeth was out with her boyfriend. Later that night, Elizabeth and her boyfriend broke up and her brother died.
Josh gave her a hug and didn't say anything.
Elizabeth sobbed.

And yes, I've seen it done. This is what normal conversation would (or could) look like, but it doesn't work well in written form.

 

[Lessien]

Oh yeah. I have BIG problems with infodumping. I thought you were talking about using too much narration in dialogue (see first example).

 

[oncewaslost]

eh, info dumping. i'd agree that's bad.

 

[Tariel]

Oh yeah. I have BIG problems with infodumping. I thought you were talking about using too much narration in dialogue (see first example).

yeah. I noticed. That's why I clarified. I don't have any problem with narration--I generally fall around where you do. Using a little bit of narration. infodumping sucks.

 

[Lessien]

I hate it when writers give away all their secrets in the opening paragraph, like

Danielle looked like a brilliant student on the outside, but on the inside, she was seething. She had started doing drugs to dull the pain from when her dad and her dog died in the same car crash, and when her boyfriend had broken up with her shortly afterward.

"Hi," she said sullenly.

And I've seen that done before. What could have been a 10-page short story or even a short novel with a good deal of depth and emotion becomes a bumbling tangle of useless scenes and one-dimensional characters.

 

[Netbug009]

Ugh, infodumping. So THAT'S what my problem when writing dialouge is called.

Dialouge is a strenth of mine, until a character has to explain something. I'm used to playing RPGs, where characters lecture about history and how to do stuff all the time. It's gotten me into a habait of having a character know everything that needs to be done next in my novel writing and such. Ugh.

 

[Lessien]

Ugh, infodumping. So THAT'S what my problem when writing dialouge is called.

Dialouge is a strenth of mine, until a character has to explain something. I'm used to playing RPGs, where characters lecture about history and how to do stuff all the time. It's gotten me into a habait of having a character know everything that needs to be done next in my novel writing and such. Ugh.

Yeah. I play RPGs, too, and to avoid getting into that habit, I have my characters tell a noob the bare minimum of what they need to know--or, if that character talks a lot, tell them EVERYTHING they need to know and more. But infodumping sucks. I hate doing it and I hate books that do it.

 

[Tariel]

Yepp! I play RPGs too. But I think my biggest influence on how I write dialouge lately has been manga. Can't say if it's helped or hurt I think it's mostly helped though, especially with infodumping. 'Cause I really really really HATE infodumping

 

[Netbug009]

I need to work on not infodumping. I participated in nanowrimo this year, and one of my characters knew WAY too much about what to do next. X(

 

[CelticRose]

I hate to admit it but there's a certain sort of info dumping I actually like. If it's obscure, pointless, totally off track, arcane, but presented in an interesting fashion I will read ad infinitum. There's an art to good info dumping. Unfortunately I'm not good at it.

As for dialogue; my characters are totally out of control & getting them to shut up is more of a problem. Seriously, there comes a point when one's story is so 'alive' one should be able to simply listen & 'hear' the characters talking. Editing so the writing is nice & tight can come later.

 

[Lessien]

Yepp! I play RPGs too. But I think my biggest influence on how I write dialouge lately has been manga. Can't say if it's helped or hurt I think it's mostly helped though, especially with infodumping. 'Cause I really really really HATE infodumping

lol. A friend turned me on to comic books (the newer ones, like Ultimate Spiderman) and that's influenced the way I write dialogue. I think it's helped, too, since the story is told chiefly through pictures and dialogue, the dialogue has to be pretty good to hold the story together But if you want to read comic books for dialogue, don't read the older ones. They infodump.

 

[Tariel]

lol. A friend turned me on to comic books (the newer ones, like Ultimate Spiderman) and that's influenced the way I write dialogue. I think it's helped, too, since the story is told chiefly through pictures and dialogue, the dialogue has to be pretty good to hold the story together But if you want to read comic books for dialogue, don't read the older ones. They infodump.

yeah I read the stuff that leaves you hoping the artist/writer/creator person doesn't die anytime soon because you NEED to know how the story ends

And CelticRose: what you defined would not usually be reffered to as infodumping. At least in my opinion, infodumping is inherrently obnoxious because for it to be called infoDUMPING the author must bog the reader down with so much information that is either unnecessary(sp?) or gives away half the plot that the reader is either bored and/or knows the entire plot. Some 'talented' authors can give away the plot without infodumping, but we won't go there right now.

There's nothing wrong with hints and backstory. But put a little faith in your readers They can figure it out.