How do you make decisions together?

[LovebirdsFlying]

Conversations sweet Hubby and I keep having:

Me: Do you want to do XYZ?
Him: If you want to.
Me: I don't care one way or another. What do YOU want to do?
Him: If you want to do XYZ, we'll do XYZ.

Variant:

Me: Would you rather do X, or Y?
Him: Whichever one you want to do.
Me: Either one is OK with me. I want to know which one you prefer.
Him: It doesn't matter to me either. I told you, whichever one you want.

And so on and so forth forever.

Apparently neither one of us has any actual preference, but he simply refuses to be the one to say, "OK, let's choose this one." It HAS to be me making the final choice, even though I'm just as neutral on it as he is.

I've often wondered why this is. I think in a thread I started a few years ago, I wrote a scenario in which a couple are shopping for a new car together. Spouse A claims neutrality and forces Spouse B to pick out which one they'll go with, only to later blame Spouse B for making the wrong choice when that car turns out to be a lemon. Spouse A then claims to have preferred a different one, but no, "YOU had to pick this one." Spouse A is obviously trying to avoid blame and accountability. Spouse A is terrified of being the one at fault when something goes wrong.

Is Hubby afraid I'm trying to bait him into making the wrong choice so I can blast him for it? I've seen that "strawberry ice cream" routine from Abbot and Costello. Is that what he thinks I'm trying to pull on him? Well, I don't play games like that, and I never have.

How would you take this conversation off the merry-go-round? And do you have any insight (I don't expect anyone to actually know) as to why Hubby absolutely refuses to commit to a choice himself?

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

PS: For anybody not familiar with the Abbott and Costello routine that illustrates the kind of trap-setting I'm talking about, it's transcribed here at IMDb.

 

[jacks]

Sounds like he doesn't have a strong preference one way or the other and just wants to please you. Or maybe he doesn't want to do X,Y or Z, but is willing to if you want to. It wouldn't occur to me that he is trying to avoid "blame" or "accountability", unless in the past he has been blamed and held accountable for choices. In which case he may remain wishy washy to avoid conflict.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

Sweet Lori and I have been happily married since '96, I have seen such 'merry-go-rounds' quite a lot.

They have to be stopped every time, or frustration does build. Some thoughts.

Is Hubby afraid I'm trying to bait him into making the wrong choice so I can blast him for it?

If he has ever exhibited this behavior, then it is a worthwhile question. If he has not ever exhibited this behavior, please understand that this is a most destructive question, it asks whether he does or does not harbor intent which is hurtful. So before being more specific, I would have to know whether or not he has ever exhibited this behavior. Most certainly I have never, and shall never, ever, I find such behavior quite disgusting, quite destructive to good relationship.

Beyond this for now, I can certainly say that when a merry-go-round like that starts up with me, it is because I honestly do not care, though I am happier to do anything with her that she might like. A while ago I became aware that I do not like such merry-go-rounds, and I do not willingly further them anymore, so when one starts up, I try to simply say "yes" and "let's do it" as soon as possible. Sometimes I have to say "yes" and "let's do it" a few times, because she is wondering how the merry-go-round got stopped

 

[Paidiske]

How would you take this conversation off the merry go round?

If he doesn't make a decision or express a preference, I have no real issue doing so.

And do you have any insight (I don't expect anyone to actually know) as to why Hubby absoultely refuses to commit to a choice himself?

Part of what feeds that dynamic here, is that DH doesn't like to plan ahead. He's very much a go-with-the-flow, see-what-mood-I'm-in-at-the-time kind of guy. So sometimes I create the merry-go-round by trying to plan ahead, because I prefer to create some structure in my own head, and he just doesn't want to decide before the time.

Perhaps something similar might be in play for you, at least sometimes?

 

[snoochface]

I could have written this. My husband does the exact same thing. Sometimes I feel weighed down by having to make all the preferential decisions because he just doesn't have an opinion. He tells me if he really has a strong preference for something, he'll let me know - and he does. But I feel the same way! So our default ends up being me making the choice. He knows better than to complain if he doesn't like it after the fact LOL.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Thank you, everybody, for the insight so far. It's good, and it's thought-provoking.

Sounds like he doesn't have a strong preference one way or the other and just wants to please you. Or maybe he doesn't want to do X,Y or Z, but is willing to if you want to. It wouldn't occur to me that he is trying to avoid "blame" or "accountability", unless in the past he has been blamed and held accountable for choices. In which case he may remain wishy washy to avoid conflict.

Hubby and I were both in horrible marriages before we met each other. We've been married over 16 years now, and at first we were even more walking on eggshells around each other, because of our past experiences. We've both been in situations where everything that ever went wrong was our fault, even if we tried to warn them not to do that, even if we had nothing to do with it, even if we weren't there. I can't speak too much about Hubby's ex-wife, but I remember my ex-husband used to forget things like appointments, and then get very angry at me because I didn't remind him. It was my fault he forgot about it. I was supposed to be responsible for him as well as for myself and our children. (Of course, if I ever did remind him, I was such a nag! He's a grown man! He can handle it! Stop treating him like he hasn't got a brain in his head!)

Today's merry-go-round was about whether to go grocery shopping. We were running low on some things. Hubby has today and tomorrow off. I asked if he wanted to go to the grocery store today, or just relax at home and go tomorrow instead? His immediate response was, "Well, if you want to go now, we can go now." It wasn't about what I wanted. I hadn't said I wanted it either way. I was trying to give him the option, out of respect for his potental need for rest. But he's so busy trying to please me, he won't even tell me what he would prefer.

We stopped for a bite on the way to the grocery store. They say you should never shop hungry. Of course I picked where we ate, because I always do. If I ask what he likes, he'll just turn the question right back to me. He won't even narrow it down to a few possibilities. No suggestions at all. So I named the one that's right there next to the grocery store. He then asked me if I wanted to go inside or do drive through, and I was quite definite about wanting to go inside. We live in the state of Washington. It's dark and cold and rainy out there. I did point out that when I do have a definite preference, as I did just then, I will say so. If I say it doesn't matter to me, then I mean it really, truly, honestly doesn't matter to me. I'm not going to offer him a choice between A and B, and then get mad because he chose B and I was hoping he'd choose A. I don't play that "secret test of character" game.

Edited to add, what I just said about the secret test of charcacter just brought to my mind, that's another game my ex used to play with me. For example, when our kids were babies, he was outside grilling steaks. He came inside with a platter that had two steaks on it, and to show me how broad-minded and unselfish he was, he graciously offered me first choice. I couldn't have cared less which one I ate, so I followed the etiquette rule of choosing the one nearest to me. Well, do you know, he went into an absolute RAGE because I chose that steak. Turns out it was just a tiny, imperceptible bit larger than the other one. Or so he said. I don't know. I couldn't see a difference, myself, but it was obvious to him, and he was SOOOO mad. Why did he offer me the choice, then, if he already knew which one he wanted? Most likely answer: Because he wanted an excuse to get mad at me and portray me as the selfish and greedy one in that marriage. The giveaway is that he set me up by placing the steaks on the platter and holding it out so that the one he *didn't* want me to choose was nearest to me.

So yes, we have a history of these kinds of games in our lives, and we are still learning that we are NOT playing those games with each other.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Conversations sweet Hubby and I keep having:

Me: Do you want to do XYZ?
Him: If you want to.
Me: I don't care one way or another. What do YOU want to do?
Him: If you want to do XYZ, we'll do XYZ.

Variant:

Me: Would you rather do X, or Y?
Him: Whichever one you want to do.
Me: Either one is OK with me. I want to know which one you prefer.
Him: It doesn't matter to me either. I told you, whichever one you want.

And so on and so forth forever.

Apparently neither one of us has any actual preference, but he simply refuses to be the one to say, "OK, let's chose this one." It HAS to be me making the final choice, even though I'm just as neutral on it as he is.

I've often wondered why this is. I think in a thread I started a few years ago, I wrote a scenario in which a couple are shopping for a new car together. Spouse A claims neutrality and forces Spouse B to pick out which one they'll go with, only to later blame Spouse B for making the wrong choice when that car turns out to be a lemon. Spouse A then claims to have preferred a different one, but no, "YOU had to pick this one." Spouse A is obviously trying to avoid blame and accountability. Spouse A is terrified of being the one at fault when something goes wrong.

Is Hubby afraid I'm trying to bait him into making the wrong choice so I can blast him for it? I've seen that "strawberry ice cream" routine from Abbot and Costello. Is that what he thinks I'm trying to pull on him? Well, I don't play games like that, and I never have.

How would you take this conversation off the merry go round? And do you have any insight (I don't expect anyone to actually know) as to why Hubby absoultely refuses to commit to a choice himself?

I have a similar situation however my husband uses the " do what you want" phrase and that gives me more of an impression that he certainly wants to choose. By that point I simply say, I am not going to choose unless of course, I'd rather do what " I want". Unfortunately, this merry go round is unavoidable. Nothing serious though.
Be Blessed!

 

[jacks]

So yes, we have a history of these kinds of games in our lives, and we are still learning that we are NOT playing those games with each other.

Yes, it is hard to overcome past experiences. I've also been married before and for a while I assumed my current wife had the same motivations , when the situations were similar. Sounds like your making progress getting past those previous marriage assumptions. If you shared your thoughts on this issue with your husband, I'm sure he would feel much more at ease, saying what he thinks and choosing what he prefers. Marriages are always a work in progress.

 

[Diamond72]

It doesn't matter to me either. I told you, whichever one you want.

It reminds me of when my dad and step mom bought lazy boy style chairs. Both thought that was what the other person wanted and it turns out neither one liked them. So they gave them to me and went back to buy new ones again.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

It reminds me of when my dad and step mom bought lazy boy style chairs. Both thought that was what the other person wanted and it turns out neither one liked them. So they gave them to me and went back to buy new ones again.

We're sometimes a little delayed (never late, but sometimes awfully close to late) getting out the door when we're going someplace. Problem turns out to be, neither one of us realizes the other is ready to leave. I'm just sitting there killing time waiting for him, while he's just sitting there killing time waiting for me, and both of us thought the other was busy doing something and didn't want to interrupt. I have learned to tell him, "Ready any time you are," early on. It is usually, if not always, me saying it.

This whole conversation reminds me of the joke about the expectant mother who prayed every day that her baby would be polite and considerate. After the pregancy went well over the usual length of time, to the point she's making headline news, and she still wasn't giving birth, her doctors finally did a Cesarean.

That's when they discovered she was expecting twins, and the two babies kept saying back and forth to each other, "Oh, no, my dear brother. I insist. After you."

 

[Diamond72]

the two babies kept saying back and forth to each other, "Oh, no, my dear brother. I insist. After you."

It turns out there really can be disparity between twins. In some cases, one twin may receive more nutrients than the other during pregnancy. This can occur due to a condition called Twin-to-Twin Transfusion Syndrome (TTTS), which happens in identical twins who share a placenta. In TTTS, blood flow between the twins can become unbalanced, causing one twin (the donor) to receive less blood and nutrients, while the other twin (the recipient) receives more.

If identical twins have issues, what hope do the rest of us have?

 

[RDKirk]

I've been married over 40 years. This still happens between me and my wife. My experience when this happens is that she apparently really does have a preference, because when I do subsequently make a few suggestions of places I'd prefer, she inevitably shoots them down. I can't get into her head to find out why she does that. Maybe she expects me to suggest the place she wants to go, then she can say she complied with my desire.

Stop and think about what your response is when you husband suggests what he wants...if your pattern is to disagree, even when you've said you don't care, then you do care, and that might be the reason. Or if you go along with his preference and then complain about later, then you do care.

But my wife and I have broad areas in which one or the other of us actually doesn't care and goes along with the other's decision without complaint.

If you say you don't care, be careful to truly not care.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

^^We've actually had that situation in reverse, where I asked him his opinion, and he was the one who told me, "Do what you want." Even when I persisted in asking him for his thoughts on the matter, he was equally persistent that he didn't have any. He kept saying, "It's your choice," and he didn't voice any pereference whatsoever.

Then he didn't like the choice I made. Which, as it turns out, was a mistake after all.

It came to light Hubby actually did have a preference all along. He hadn't wanted me to do that, but he didn't speak up at the time because he didn't want to appear to be telling me what to do. He didn't want to be a jerk.

I told him, "Next time, be a jerk."

I have figured out that when I asked him if he wanted to grocery shop today or tomorrow, and he answered, "If you want to go now, we can go now," what he really meant was that he'd rather go now and get it over with.

 

[RDKirk]

^^We've actually had that situation in reverse, where I asked him his opinion, and he was the one who told me, "Do what you want." Even when I persisted in asking him for his thoughts on the matter, he was equally persistent that he didn't have any. He kept saying, "It's your choice," and he didn't voice any pereference whatsoever.

Then he didn't like the choice I made. Which, as it turns out, was a mistake after all.

It came to light Hubby actually did have a preference all along. He hadn't wanted me to do that, but he didn't speak up at the time because he didn't want to appear to be telling me what to do. He didn't want to be a jerk.

I told him, "Next time, be a jerk."

I have figured out that when I asked him if he wanted to grocery shop today or tomorrow, and he answered, "If you want to go now, we can go now," what he really meant was that he'd rather go now and get it over with.

But don't hold it against him when he uses the prerogative you have allowed him to be a jerk.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

But don't hold it against him when he uses the prerogative you have allowed him to be a jerk.

I promise not to.

But he is still very, very reluctant.

 

[Michie]

I've been married over 40 years. This still happens between me and my wife. My experience when this happens is that she apparently really does have a preference, because when I do subsequently make a few suggestions of places I'd prefer, she inevitably shoots them down. I can't get into her head to find out why she does that. Maybe she expects me to suggest the place she wants to go, then she can say she complied with my desire.

Stop and think about what your response is when you husband suggests what he wants...if your pattern is to disagree, even when you've said you don't care, then you do care, and that might be the reason. Or if you go along with his preference and then complain about later, then you do care.

But my wife and I have broad areas in which one or the other of us actually doesn't care and goes along with the other's decision without complaint.

If you say you don't care, be careful to truly not care.

Why did I think you were a widower?

Anyway, I agree with your advice.

 

[Michie]

There are times I’m too stressed to make a decision on neutral matters where it truly does not matter to me in the end. I do not look at it as a loophole for blame but giving your spouse the final say in the instance it might make him happier in the long run to mull it over and make the final decision. I assume your spouse feels the same. It really is a trust issue. Either you trust or you don’t. Thinking about possible scenarios where blame is put on the other might be a cause for reflection. We tend to put undue stress in these situations where there is really no need to. I hope this helps.

(Advise from a stress ball)