How do you decide if something is factual?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Wanting something and getting a plausible offer are two different things.

Correct.
So ? I have no idea of anything you want,
nor of any valid and available offer made so far. (or 'plausible' offer)

 

[TLK Valentine]

Correct.
So ? I have no idea of anything you want,
nor of any valid and available offer made so far. (or 'plausible' offer)

You probably should've thought of that before you tried to peddle eternal life a few posts ago.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You probably should've thought of that before you tried to peddle eternal life a few posts ago.

Nah, the offer of eternal life
rest with Yahweh,
it is Him, not me, you'll have to deal with either way.

Oh, We (saints) overcome with the word of our testimony, and the blood of the Lamb,
but that is only evidence/ testimony of Jesus and the Truth - our faith won't save anyone else - everyone is judged for their own deeds.

So, iow, if you decide you want eternal life, it's not me you go to,
but Yahweh. It will be all up to Him, not me.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

a reward that you don't get until after you die.

healing, peace, joy, righteousness, self control, patience, "divine guidance"
all are
already , not later, rewards for members in the body of Christ, His followers who are immersed in Him. (sad, yes, that many do not experience this, for so many different reasons we cannot go into on this site)

Just check His Word to see all these and more were present and amazing in the first ekklesia in Jerusalem and the first century. Of course, a lot was quickly lost as the wolves/ world/ false teachers replaced what was good with what was not good. This is the same difficulty for you all today - there is a lot more imitation than real. (in teh world)

 

[TLK Valentine]

Nah, the offer of eternal life
rest with Yahweh,
it is Him, not me, you'll have to deal with either way.

Oh, We (saints) overcome with the word of our testimony, and the blood of the Lamb,
but that is only evidence/ testimony of Jesus and the Truth - our faith won't save anyone else - everyone is judged for their own deeds.

So, iow, if you decide you want eternal life, it's not me you go to,
but Yahweh. It will be all up to Him, not me.

Still not buying your sales pitch.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Still not buying your sales pitch.

It's free to everyone else.

Leave it alone until you decide otherwise, if ever.

 

[Kylie]

I can't do better than Christ.

Matthew 7:7-12

That's the claim. I want the evidence. Repeating the claim does not make it evidence to support the claim's veracity.

 

[Kylie]

healing, peace, joy, righteousness, self control, patience, "divine guidance"
all are
already , not later, rewards for members in the body of Christ, His followers who are immersed in Him. (sad, yes, that many do not experience this, for so many different reasons we cannot go into on this site)

So some people get this, others do not.

If people get this, then it's praise to God! Yay! But if people DON'T get this, then there's some reason and it sure isn't God's fault...

Or maybe the whole thing just doesn't work, and any effect is little different to the placebo effect.

Just check His Word to see all these and more were present and amazing in the first ekklesia in Jerusalem and the first century. Of course, a lot was quickly lost as the wolves/ world/ false teachers replaced what was good with what was not good. This is the same difficulty for you all today - there is a lot more imitation than real. (in teh world)

Yeah, I'm not interested in hearing more claims, I'm interested in seeing evidence to support those claims.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yeah, I'm not interested in hearing more claims, I'm interested in seeing evidence to support those claims.

Good, though for that of course , you will have to wait.

 

[Kylie]

Good, though for that of course , you will have to wait.

I really gotta wonder at those people who gladly pay now for something that they can't get until after they are dead (and maybe not even then).

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I really gotta wonder at those people who gladly pay now for something that they can't get until after they are dead (and maybe not even then).

Oh, no, did you think I meant wait until after this life ?
No, not at all.

 

[Kylie]

Oh, no, did you think I meant wait until after this life ?
No, not at all.

I'm sorry, but I'm not aware of anything religion can reliably provide in this life that can't be achieved through non-religious means.

And if you didn't mean "after death", what did you mean when you said I'd have to wait? Wait for what?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And if you didn't mean "after death", what did you mean when you said I'd have to wait? Wait for what?

I meant what you are asking for "evidence".
So far you have not , evidently , seen any true Christians. This is a very common experience, btw. (true Christians are rare on earth)
When (if?) you do, that will be the evidence you seek. Then you can accept it or not at that time.

 

[Kylie]

I meant what you are asking for "evidence".
So far you have not , evidently , seen any true Christians. This is a very common experience, btw. (true Christians are rare on earth)
When (if?) you do, that will be the evidence you seek. Then you can accept it or not at that time.

Are you bringing out the "no True Scotsman" fallacy? Oh, for shame.

I've seen plenty of true Christians. My husband is one.

And it's quite arrogant to think that I will instantly be converted if I ever meet someone who really truly believes really strongly.

There have been people of non-Christian faiths who have believed their religion so strongly they have been prepared to die for it, so they are true believers - yet the strength of their beliefs doesn't convince you that their beliefs are true. Why then do you think it will be any different if the person is a Christian?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And it's quite arrogant to think that I will instantly be converted if I ever meet someone who really truly believes really strongly.

No, I didn't say anything about ever being converted, NOR about even meeting ANYONE who believes STRONGLY.
Only about evidence - if you want true evidence, and if it matters at all, you will see true evidence when Yahweh ordains it, and you won't see evidence in most churches (as perhaps you already know OR basically have admitted in saying you still want to see evidence).

Just as you can tell the difference between a living dog and a dead lion, so also
the difference between different groups can be seen, when you see them.

Then , it is partly up to your willingness, and mostly up to God's Grace, if you will believe or not.

NO one, not even God, can make you believe, no matter what evidence there is right in front of you,
or if there is no evidence at all.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

There have been people of non-Christian faiths who have believed their religion so strongly they have been prepared to die for it, so they are true believers - yet the strength of their beliefs doesn't convince you that their beliefs are true. Why then do you think it will be any different if the person is a Christian?

On a completely dark night, in the country or a very dark street,
how far away can you see a candle that's burning ?

 

[Kylie]

No, I didn't say anything about ever being converted, NOR about even meeting ANYONE who believes STRONGLY.
Only about evidence - if you want true evidence, and if it matters at all, you will see true evidence when Yahweh ordains it, and you won't see evidence in most churches (as perhaps you already know OR basically have admitted in saying you still want to see evidence).

Just as you can tell the difference between a living dog and a dead lion, so also
the difference between different groups can be seen, when you see them.

Then , it is partly up to your willingness, and mostly up to God's Grace, if you will believe or not.

NO one, not even God, can make you believe, no matter what evidence there is right in front of you,
or if there is no evidence at all.

Stop moving the goalposts.

You said, "So far you have not , evidently , seen any true Christians. This is a very common experience, btw. (true Christians are rare on earth)
When (if?) you do, that will be the evidence you seek. Then you can accept it or not at that time."

In other words, if I ever met a True Christian (tm), then that will be the evidence I need to convert me into a True Believer as well.

Now you are furiously backpedaling and trying to pretend you actually said something different.

 

[Kylie]

On a completely dark night, in the country or a very dark street,
how far away can you see a candle that's burning ?

Quite a way, I suppose.

What's your point?

 

[PsychoSarah]

It's free to everyone else.

Leave it alone until you decide otherwise, if ever.

Dude, I've been seeking belief for over 9 years. I can't just choose to believe that there's a god or an afterlife at will anymore than you could force yourself to believe Thor is real, even if eternal existence is at stake.

And trust me, I want there to be an afterlife, because the prospect of ceasing to exist when I die is terrifying and makes me cry myself to sleep at night way too much.

 

[Aman777]

Including Charles Darwin? You said before he wasn't Satanic...

Darwin was trained in the Theology of ancient men. Scripture shows that ONLY the people of the last days, with increased knowledge, can understand. Dan 12:4 Descent with modification is the Truth but Godless evolution is the biggest satanic lie ever told. In the end, the false ToE will be refuted.