How do you choose to believe?

[dysert]

In general, people believe what is comfortable. Some find it hard to live with doubts, or fears. These tend toward religion. Some find it harder to live with cognitive dissonances and absurdities, and these tend away from religion. And many religious people deny that they are religious, so they can have their imaginary cake and eat it too.

So religion is an opiate for the masses? As I think back, I can't think of anything that scared me into the Kingdom. It was not doubts or fears that brought me to Christianity.

 

[Gracchus]

So religion is an opiate for the masses? As I think back, I can't think of anything that scared me into the Kingdom. It was not doubts or fears that brought me to Christianity.

Of course you can't think of it! It makes you too uncomfortable!

 

[ecco]

It sounds like you missed the point. If a person changes his religion or changes to Atheist, it's not because he decides to go against everything that makes sense to him. On the contrary it's not only a free choice (in theory) but it's because he is compelled to that decision by what has made sense to him.

I said nothing different.

 

[ecco]

I was born as mind-full child, thus I was born already as theist. I was theist in my mother's belly.
In Soviet Darwin-istic School my mind was killed by the total madness: atheism. Many years have passed by. I was lucky not to die in the atheism. I was supernaturally healed by Jesus, only because my mother has prayed like only loving mother can do. Before that happy day I was accepting no reason. Thank You, Merciful Lord!

Born and raised christian by a christian mother. Good to see someone admitting it.

 

[ecco]

So religion is an opiate for the masses? As I think back, I can't think of anything that scared me into the Kingdom. It was not doubts or fears that brought me to Christianity.

Then what did? How old were you when your first heard about god?

 

[Albion]

I said nothing different.

OK. It seemed to me that there was a small difference.

 

[Chris B]

I always thought belief is an acknowledgement to yourself of what seems correct. And you cannot force something to seem right or wrong. Facts present themselves to you. You cant reach out and change them, except through your own creativity.

This a skill some people have.
And there is the very marked effect of "the paradigm in place" where the basic core beliefs and assumptions have at least a partial immunity from questioning, as new information is both judged and interpreted in the light of that very pre-established framework.
If the framework already in place is the judge, it very rarely finds itself guilty; rather, new information which might otherwise be awkward is either discounted as improbable or unreliable, or interpreted in *any* way necessary to match the existing beliefs. (religious, secular, political...)

"Why are you painting white lines in the middle of the road?"
"To keep the tigers away."
"But there aren't any tigers around here!"
"Good stuff isn't it!"

 

[Chris B]

So religion is an opiate for the masses?

Is there any doubt that that is true, for very,very, many?
The treasured thing may not at all be coming from the actual theological belief (as can be witnessed in terms what will get a congregation up in arms!) Community, familiarity, tradition can be the entities of a sense of comfort and security, which is what is being valued.

 

[Albion]

Is there any doubt that that is true, for very,very, many?
The treasured thing may not at all be coming from the actual theological belief (as can be witnessed in terms what will get a congregation up in arms!) Community, familiarity, tradition can be the entities of a sense of comfort and security, which is what is being valued.

...and that applies to atheists no less than it does to theists. The atheist's religion just is called by some other name.

 

[ISTANDBYJESUS]

I can make many choices in a lot of things in my life but there is one thing I cannot choose and that is whether I want to believe or not. Nor do I think anyone can stop to believe by a free choice.

If nobody has a choice to believe in a god, how can anyone then be held responsible, i.e. be punished by this god which they don't believe in, for something which their will cannot control?

A belief cannot simply be a choice of the will, but something must trigger it. What is that trigger and why do not unbeliever get that trigger? (I guess I am saying you need evidence for you beliefs?)

Believers can hear the word of God and unbelievers can not. Further more, those who have the commandments of God in 1 John 3:23-24 and keep them, are those who can hear the word of God and all others have never heard his voice. The "trigger" you are inquiring about is hearing God not man: and hearing God for the first time comes with fear of the Lord.

 

[SamuelTP1977]

I could be wrong but I feel it is not a choice. How can anyone control what makes sense to them in their own mind?

 

[Light of the East]

Yes. But that isn't the point. The point is that there is no reason why such a God cannot exist.

There is every reason that such a God cannot exist. The Bible says that God is love. Not that God loves, but that He is love. A God of love does not do such a thing. Love always does those things which are in the best interest of the object of its affection. Thus, since God is love, He cannot create creatures whom He does not love and hence, does not desire to do the very best for them. Your view smacks of the Calvinist heresy which regards human beings as things instead of beloved children.

 

[Winken]

Believers can hear the word of God and unbelievers can not. Further more, those who have the commandments of God in 1 John 3:23-24 and keep them, are those who can hear the word of God and all others have never heard his voice. The "trigger" you are inquiring about is hearing God not man: and hearing God for the first time comes with fear of the Lord.

Ordo salutis

Latin for “order of salvation.” Theologically it is the order of decrees by God in bringing about the salvation of individuals.

In the Reformed camp, the ordo solutis is 1) election, 2) predestination, 3) calling, 4) regeneration, 5) faith, 6) repentance, 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification.

In the Arminian camp, the ordo solutis is 1) calling, 2) response in faith,
3) repentance, 4) regeneration, 5) justification, 6) perseverance, 7) glorification.

In the Biblical camp, the ordo solutis is 1) Holy Spirit calling, 2) individual response in faith believing, 3) instantly born again, 4) calm, confident assurance of eternal salvation.

Nothing left to do. HE is the Justifier, the Sustainer, the Sanctifier.

 

[Ana the Ist]

...and that applies to atheists no less than it does to theists. The atheist's religion just is called by some other name.

Nonsense.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Basically ~do you hold to free will or predestination~

Predestination, because I believe that God is omnipotent. Others should to

So did God create people who were damned from birth? People destined for eternal torture no matter what they do?

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

So did God create people who were damned from birth? People destined for eternal torture no matter what they do?

The beauty of predestination is that a person still beset themselves in not believing in God. A person who believes thoroughly in Christ is part of the elect.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

The beauty of predestination is that a person still beset themselves in not believing in God. A person who believes thoroughly in Christ is part of the elect.

So someone like me, who struggles to believe and has for a long time, what should I conclude? That I'm not part of the elect and might as well give up?

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

So someone like me, who struggles to believe and has for a long time, what should I conclude? That I'm not part of the elect and might as well give up?

It's not really so clear cut as that. It's just a bit hard to explain, as it takes a while to really understand predestination theology let alone put it straightforward accurately. This is why people look at Calvin's TULIP for example and automatically make a bad assumption. God knows the heart of each individual man, for starts.

 

[Winken]

So someone like me, who struggles to believe and has for a long time, what should I conclude? That I'm not part of the elect and might as well give up?

In the Biblical camp, the ordo solutis is 1) Holy Spirit calling, 2) individual response in faith believing, 3) instantly born again, 4) calm, confident assurance of eternal salvation.

Nothing left to do. HE is the Justifier, the Sustainer, the Sanctifier. In the beginning He chose those who believe to be saved. He sends out the Holy Spirit to minister that Truth to you, Romans 10:8-13. Have you done what that passage calls for? If so, relax. HE never gives up.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

In the Biblical camp, the ordo solutis is 1) Holy Spirit calling, 2) individual response in faith believing, 3) instantly born again, 4) calm, confident assurance of eternal salvation.

Nothing left to do. HE is the Justifier, the Sustainer, the Sanctifier. In the beginning He chose those who believe to be saved. He sends out the Holy Spirit to minister that Truth to you, Romans 10:8-13. Have you done what that passage calls for? If so, relax. HE never gives up.

It sounds like the very first step isn't up to us, though. The Holy Spirit makes the first move and all we can do is wait.