How do you become Eastern Orthodox, but dislike the Eastern Culture ?

[RaylightI]

Let me firstly remind you that English is a second language of mine, you will find misspellings here and there, forgive me for that please.


I come from the Eastern side of the globe, there are good things in my culture, but I mostly like the Western culture, the Western civilization, and therefor I tend to be more close to Western Christianity and thinking. I have so much disagreements with my own Eastern culture and sometimes I can't see what is that good about it ( maybe because in today's era it seems like the West is more modern and progressive ) I'm sure the same with many Westerns who are attracted to the East more then they are attracted to their native culture.

Eastern Orthodoxy is mainly in the Eastern side of the globe, in Eastern Europe, Russia, Middle East and parts of North Africa.

What would you advice a person in this situation ? How could I make sure that my disagreement and my view of the Eastern Culture doesn't affect my judgment Eastern Orthodoxy ?

 

[Chesterton]

Let me firstly remind you that English is a second language of mine, you will find misspellings here and there, forgive me for that please.


I come from the Eastern side of the globe, there are good things in my culture, but I mostly like the Western culture, the Western civilization, and therefor I tend to be more close to Western Christianity and thinking. I have so much disagreements with my own Eastern culture and sometimes I can't see what is that good about it ( maybe because in today's era it seems like the West is more modern and progressive ) I'm sure the same with many Westerns who are attracted to the East more then they are attracted to their native culture.

Eastern Orthodoxy is mainly in the Eastern side of the globe, in Eastern Europe, Russia, Middle East and parts of North Africa.

What would you advice a person in this situation ? How could I make sure that my disagreement and my view of the Eastern Culture doesn't affect my judgment Eastern Orthodoxy ?

Your English is pretty good, better than a lot of native English writers on CF.

I'm thoroughly American and this was a bit of an issue for me. First time I walked into an Orthodox church there was a bit of a culture shock. But I had to reflect, and separate the Christianity from the ancient cultures where it first arose. By separate, I just mean that it really doesn't matter. God chose to incarnate at a certain time and place, and certainly there may be good practical reasons (e.g., Greek being an excellent lingua franca of the day, Palestine being a crossroads of the world), but we can't know all of these reasons.

Another thing is that "progress" isn't all it's cracked up to be, and at best is a double-edged sword. (We could say a lot more about this.)

If you're interested and have the time, I'd recommend a book The New Jerusalem by G.K. Chesterton. It's not completely about what you're talking about, but it touches on things like this. (For example, he visits the Middle East, finds the colors on buildings are gaudy, then reflects on the gaudiness of his own England which is usually not noticed by people who grow up there.)

 

[SuperCloud]

Your English is pretty good, grammar and all. My English grammar is not that great (and mine is better than a good number of Americans my age and younger ) and my spelling is even worse. The automatic spell check is the only thing that saves me saves the reader.

I think the old maxim "The grass is always greener on the other side" hold true in many instances.

I think human beings tend to associate material wealth, secular success, and power with "goodness" and what is correct and right. But I'm not persuaded that they always coincide. Sometimes they do coincide. Sometimes not. In my view.

I'm a partly a product of Catholicism since I was raised in it. But I'm a product of other things too. I'm a product of the United States, Generation X, ethnic Black-America, the Midwest, the City of Milwaukee, the North Side of Milwaukee, Catholic school in the '70s and '80s, the Marine Corps. And probably a great many more things I'm not even cognizant of.

Western Christianity includes Protestantism and Latin Catholicism. Mainline Protestantism is on rapid decline. The exception might be with the Baptist. Some of the most anti-Catholic people are actually active lay members and clergy within the Catholic Church. The United States of America does not excel at Freedom of Speech. Latin Catholicism surpasses the United States in Freedom of Speech and it is ruining the Catholic Church. No corporation, no news outlet, in the United States would tolerate employees openly sabotaging and rebelling against company policies and values the way Catholicism tolerates rebel employees and heretical clergy. It is unbelievable. You have men like Hans Kung (very intelligent man too) that probably doesn't even believe in the divinity of Christ and certainly doesn't believe in a thing Catholicism teaches (why them remain a priest presumably with the discipline of celibacy?). Okay, the only thing analogous to the Catholic Church would be like the NAACP hiring a white male that is a member of the KKK and openly expresses white supremacist views, all tolerated by the NAACP because the NAACP wants to be "tolerant" and militantly protect freedom of speech for everyone.

Technically, freedom of speech, in the United States merely means you can express yourself (verbally, through visual art etc.) and not get arrested by law enforcement for doing so. That's all it means technically. And there are some limitations on it. You can scream fire in crowded theater knowing their is no fire. You can't call for the violent overthrow of the U.S. Government either. That will get you arrested by Federal law enforcement.

In practical terms though... there is very little freedom of speech in the United States. Only certain things are tolerated if expressed, all else can get you terminated from your job or black listed in an industry. Coercion through financial ruin. Secular people also like to be hypocrites and use the social ostracizing techniques they condemn religion for.

Basically, blasphemy is not only "cool" but protected in the United States and allotted tax dollars when religious blasphemy comes to a publicly funded art museum. And in these cases like many others Americans don't believe in separation of church and state. Not that that is an explicit statement in the U.S. Constitution. It's not. It's inferred. The actual U.S. Constitution sees to imply that religious beliefs and those expressions of a persons religious beliefs are granted Federal protection. But you would get the impression most Americans are either functionally illiterate or mildly [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

Of course, my opinion is tainted with some subjectivity, but I would say most Americans hate democracy, freedom of speech, and most actively involve religious beliefs in their political beliefs. It's just that most those religious beliefs are Satanic. And the Satanic Church more or less runs the United States of America. They are in the closet Satanists though. They don't openly parade around their Satanism. Not that most Americans are Satanists. Most aren't. But you don't have to be a member of something to be indoctrinated with moral views of a body. I've watched a fair amount of inappropriate content in my life. I'm as big a sinner they come. But my Christian rearing always gave a compass to my conscious that made me fell guilt. So, I always knew I was doing something wrong. Imagine not know, not having guilt? So, one thing I began to notice about a number of online inappropriate content sites that disturbed me, was a number of them had Satanic themes to their business organization.

Hmm.....

So, in freedom of speech, as it pertains to inappropriate contentography, who is teaching the morals, guiding the legislation in the United States, Protestantism and Catholicism, neo-Christians like Mormonism, or Satanists?

One might argue none... because its agnostic and atheists or liberal Christians. But I doubt that given the protection and promotion of publicly funded blasphemy, especially against the Virgin Mary. A religious position, a religiously inspired point is being made in such blasphemy. It's not indifferent atheism.

Be careful as a grown adult when you allow a 400 pound rapist in your house, when you have kids to raise in your home and you open your doors to pedophiles. You may call yourself "progressive" or "tolerant" but in the eyes of God you may simply be a fool.

Putin is trying to keep out the rapists. He understands that political offices are in a sense ecclesiastical.

I say this as a Brazilian-phile who is attracted to the neo-pagan culture of Brazil with it's Carnival of bare flesh. And Brazil has the second largest inappropriate content industry in the world, behind that of the USA.

 

[buzuxi02]

I come from the Eastern side of the globe, there are good things in my culture, but I mostly like the Western culture, the Western civilization, and therefor I tend to be more close to Western Christianity and thinking. I have so much disagreements with my own Eastern culture and sometimes I can't see what is that good about it ( maybe because in today's era it seems like the West is more modern and progressive )

Far Eastern religions have always been a fascination in the west. Christianity itself is an Eastern religion, the various names for Satan in the OT are from mespotomian religions. Even Justin Martyr identified the 3 wise men as zoroastrians. That's where the roots of Christianity are.

You maybe thinking of two different aspects. Religion, which most Westerners of today realize was never their strong suit. Personally I find Western religion shallow this includes both Christianity and the Judaism of the western european ashkenazis.

Now the culture of western europe is see as dead. I don't see anything virtuous in tattooed women, serial 'monogamy', democracy, humanism, hollywood, secularism, consumerism, mukticultism, diversity etc. Of course these things were not the backbone of western civilization decades ago, but they are now

 

[ArmyMatt]

I am American, Western through and through, and have no issues with Orthodoxy. our Faith is universal, so you can be Western and be Orthodox. saints like Sts Benedict, Patrick, Jerome, and Augustine were ours. even during Lent we celebrate the Liturgy of St Gregory the Great, Pope of Rome.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

This...

I am American, Western through and through, and have no issues with Orthodoxy. our Faith is universal, so you can be Western and be Orthodox. saints like Sts Benedict, Patrick, Jerome, and Augustine were ours. even during Lent we celebrate the Liturgy of St Gregory the Great, Pope of Rome.

 

[RaylightI]

Thank you guys for your replies, they are indeed very helpful. But I have few comments on some.

I see nothing wrong in diversity, I find it very beautiful, I think the idea of the whole country/society should have only one culture and one type of thinking is exactly what we saw in Nazi Germany, Soviet Union and what we are seeing today in North Korea.

Democracy is very good, I don't understand how could anyone say that " I don't see anything virtuous..." in democracy. So, should I dislike democracy and diversity in order for me to see something good about Eastern Orthodoxy and Eastern culture in general ? I don't think so.

However,the replies did really help me and I think the idea that religion is not the perfect suit for the West is true. And that is why I think I will start look at the East when it comes to religion and spirituality, and look to the West when it comes to other issues.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What would you advice a person in this situation ? How could I make sure that my disagreement and my view of the Eastern Culture doesn't affect my judgment Eastern Orthodoxy ?

Yahshua says if we don't hate your own life on this earth (carnal, temporary, fleshy)
we can't be His disciple. So that's a start - realize that society/ culture/ mankind is in Yhvh's sight evil, sinful, unregenerate, and the flesh(everything born of the flesh) profits nothing.

Yahshua also says that even He Himself doesn't make His Own judgments.
He thinks, does and says what He sees Abba Yhvh think , do and say, and
Yahshua says to judge righteously, not by what is temporal (seen or heard or felt) , but accept the Creators judgment in all things, everything.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I attend a Serbian parish. Since the parish was founded, most of the Serbs bailed and became secularized or just apathetic, some moved out of the area, and now the only real Serbs are the bishop, our priest, and a TINY hand-full of people there! I mean TINY! The biggest group are the Russians. They're about 60-70%. The rest are converts like me.

I like the Slavonic trappings of the liturgy. I find the Dostoyno Yest (It Is Very Meet) hymn to be INFINITELY more beautiful sung in Slavonic than in English. The English just sounds lousy to me after the Slavonic. I prefer many Slavonic parts to the liturgy.

But when it comes to many of the traditions at our parish, I find little interest in them. I don't care about the "Serb Fest" thing. I never go or participate. It doesn't interest me in the slightest. I don't go to "Greek Fest" up in Fresno either, and that's this mega event up there. I just don't care about it. The Serbian dancing and focus on their culture gets tiring and boring to me. I respect their love for it, but don't feel I have to take it on and embrace it.

I will not lie that I still wish there was a Western Orthodoxy. I wish that I could hear St. Patrick's name celebrated or St. Augustine or St. Bede or Ambrose, Hilary of Portiers, or some other Western heroes. I would like to have a more Westernized events. I think the foreignness of Orthodoxy and its clinging to ethnic traditions and cliques, the fragmented nature of it in North America, it's a huge debit to us. Imagine if we were all united, under one North American Patriarch, and just called "The Orthodox Church in America" rather than St. Basil's Russian Orthodox, St. George's Bulgarian Orthodox, St. Cyril's Antiochean Orthodox, St. John Chrysostom OCA Orthodox Church, St. Vladimir's Latvian Orthodox Church, St. Sava's Serbian Orthodox Church, St. Methodius Greek Orthodox Church on and on and on....

The Catholics are still ethnic, but they've combined the ethnicities in their parish. My old parish had Filipino days, Mexican days, Italian fests, Polish this and that, Portuguese junk, you name it. But in Orthodoxy, it gives off the smell of extreme ethnic isolation whether they mean to or not.

I also find it a bit unnerving how I hear people defending Serbian war crimes, war criminals, and using excuses to cover over and gloss over the maniacal crimes against humanity. I hear excuses for Russia any and every time they do something. I am willing to be PLENTY critical of the U.S./NATO, but I also expect intellectual honesty with the Eastern lands as well. So that troubles me a bit. Putin hates homosexuality so he gets a blank check for our trust. That is odd to me.

So there are negatives, but the sacramental life, the rich spiritual life, it's all worth overlooking these goofy facets if you ask me. I don't need to like baklava, do strange ethnic dances, and support Russian invasions or excuse war criminals while eating strange Russian desserts in order to be a good Orthodox Christian any more than I need to support Obama, CIA corruption, homosexuality, and the other junk that my Western culture promotes.

 

[Jesus4Madrid]

So there are negatives, but the sacramental life, the rich spiritual life, it's all worth overlooking these goofy facets if you ask me. I don't need to like baklava, do strange ethnic dances, and support Russian invasions or excuse war criminals while eating strange Russian desserts in order to be a good Orthodox Christian any more than I need to support Obama, CIA corruption, homosexuality, and the other junk that my Western culture promotes.

This is a rather balanced position. In my parish, of the foreigners, about half are Ucranian and a quarter are Russian. I don't have much in common with their Slavic cultural traditions. And as you might imagine, we are want to avoid politics. But I love their hospitality, their commitment to Orthodoxy, and the sublime beauty of the Russian choral tradition. I have never had such a "charismatic" experience in any other church. I couldn't settle for anything less.

 

[buzuxi02]

Thank you guys for your replies, they are indeed very helpful. But I have few comments on some.

I see nothing wrong in diversity, I find it very beautiful, I think the idea of the whole country/society should have only one culture and one type of thinking is exactly what we saw in Nazi Germany, Soviet Union and what we are seeing today in North Korea.

Democracy is very good, I don't understand how could anyone say that " I don't see anything virtuous..." in democracy. So, should I dislike democracy and diversity in order for me to see something good about Eastern Orthodoxy and Eastern culture in general ?

Well, N. Korea is a pretty homogenous nation, just like most nations of the Earth. The Soviet Union was an empire thus very diverse. Communism either promotes or suppresses multiculturalism depending on whether it benefits their cause.

Diversity leads to divisions, It uses one faction against the other. The anglo experiment has led every single country into civil strife. Diversity and multiculturalism is nothing more than to erode the established existant culture. Why is democracy bad? Read the Church Fathers.

 

[SuperCloud]

Thank you guys for your replies, they are indeed very helpful. But I have few comments on some.

I see nothing wrong in diversity, I find it very beautiful, I think the idea of the whole country/society should have only one culture and one type of thinking is exactly what we saw in Nazi Germany, Soviet Union and what we are seeing today in North Korea.

I'm not a political conservative. But I've read some of their objections (in the USA) to multiculturalism before. Assuming I understand their position correctly, the objection is more to do with what's term Identity Politics and the lack of assimilation into one mainstream American culture.

I remember many years ago one person stated to me that Brazil is not multicultural nation, he went on to explain that everyone that comes to live in Brazil as a Brazilian is expected to assimilate into the overall Brazilian culture.

There are lots of Germans in Brazil, the most Italians outside of Italy, the most Japanese outside of Japan, the most Lebanese outside of Lebanon. There are a lot of people from all over living within Brazil. Many of their politicians have Japanese surnames. But some people in the U.S. might argue that these newer arrivals to Brazil assimilate more into Brazilian culture than new arrivals to the U.S. do.

I don't know to what degree if any that is true. Certainly New York City Italians are a lot more vocal about their Italianness that Sao Paulo Italians even though Sao Paulo has more Italians than New York City.

But the United States had a long tradition of resisting inter-ethnic and inter-racial marriages. There's little to no resistance now between the Anglo-Saxons and the "ethnic" whites like the Italians, Irish, Poles and so on. Around the end of WWII that resistance began to change with returning war veterans. By about the late 1970s to early 1980s the last of the Italian and Irish neighborhoods went.

Today your newer arrivals to the U.S. are from Eastern Europe usually if they are white. Most others are non-whites from Latin America, Africa, and various parts of Asia including West Asia. And the culture of the United States is European at roots. There are "creole" elements to the culture within certain regions of the USA. Not o much in Wisconsin, although, back when it was French territory it largely the French equivalent of "creole" for both the French fur traders and the many mestizo Amerindians in the region both baptized Catholic and bilingual. But in various regions of the U.S. South you still have creole cultures. Creole being a strong fusion of Amerindian and European culture, and in other cases a strong fusion of Amerindian, European, and black West African cultures.

That said... you should know that mainstream American culture during the 1930s shared a good number of beliefs and attitudes with Nazi Germany. Both believed in Eugenics. Neither wanted non-whites procreating with white women. In fact, my Black-American grandmother in her youth witnessed POW German soldiers being held in the U.S. South walking around freely into "Whites Only" establishments. When her brother, my great-uncle, returned back to Mississippi from fighting the Germans in the European theater in WWII (there were racially segregated units in the USA then) he had less freedom and acceptance than the POW German soldiers that had walked within his own Southern State.

Not that every white person in the USA loved Germans back then. They didn't. My German grandfather would lie and tell people he was not German. And many Germans Anglonized their surnames to be more widely accepted into mainstream culture. I believe Miller Brewing Company is such a case of an Anglonozed German surname. The actual founder had a more Germanic surname.

Democracy is very good, I don't understand how could anyone say that " I don't see anything virtuous..." in democracy. So, should I dislike democracy and diversity in order for me to see something good about Eastern Orthodoxy and Eastern culture in general ? I don't think so.

There is no pure democracy in the world. Certainly with the two party system and the way "representative democracy" with money works in the United States is no pure form of democracy. And political scientist in the United States don't consider the USA a pure democracy. In fact, the lone individual, unless they are one of the very rich, has no democratic power whatsoever. They must become a part of some larger group.

So, some nations have multi-party systems like Brazil which has several (I think 5 or 7) major parties, and then a bunch of small parties underneath those. The United States is run under a two-party system. The claim is the USA is a democracy because it has two rather than one major party (like Cuba). But in practical terms I've never met a single American that liked democracy. Every American I've ever met despised the opposite party and desires the United States to be run under their one single party in absolute terms.

My personal opinion is that democracy is nothing particularly special. When I briefly visited the UAE I quickly felt safer and in the company of a superior civilization than the barbarian world of Milwaukee I came from. And I did not expect that.

But then again... Milwaukee is more civilized than some of the mafia run cities of Eastern Europe. I'd rather live in Milwaukee than in Kiev in the Ukraine.

However,the replies did really help me and I think the idea that religion is not the perfect suit for the West is true. And that is why I think I will start look at the East when it comes to religion and spirituality, and look to the West when it comes to other issues.

I think the West has some of the better fashions (clothing), fashion capitals. Latin America too. Although, Asia has great tailors that can reproduce Western clothing designs.

If you wear your wedding ring on your right hand, I'd keep with that Eastern European custom too. Remembering your wedding vows every time you do the sign of the cross. Which is a cool custom I think.

 

[ArmyMatt]

And that is why I think I will start look at the East when it comes to religion and spirituality, and look to the West when it comes to other issues.

that fits in with Orthodoxy just fine

 

[buzuxi02]

I will go even further on democracy. Western democracy is basically the new religion. It actually uses the same tactics that the western elitists criticize roman catholicism in times past when they forced converted people.

ALL here constantly hear the politicians speaking about democracy, democracy, democracy, spreading democracy, supporting democracy around the globe etc. In other words the west has long abandoned spreading the gospel to all nations in exchange for spreading her democracy cult.

She has her missionaries embedded in every nation she deems "barbarian and heathenous". Using unsavory means to convert the masses . These missionaries are found in the form of non-governmental organizations such as the National Endowment for Democracy
Other times these are funded by "billionaire philanthropists" the most noteworthy being George Soros.

The democracy cult also funds and sponsors Holy wars that would make any jihadist jealous. The Crusades had nothing on her. Her crusades are seen in the Arab spring, in the Balkan conflict, in Syria, in Ukraine etc.

The former VP of the United States Dick Cheney in one of his debates many years ago assured that the iraqi people had a hunger for democracy because he saw it in El Salvador when people went to the polls enmasse after the civil war.

For those that don't know El Salvador is a small central American country which fought a bloody civil war
Between the democracy lovers and the socialist communist lovers. This was an obvious proxy war being funded and armed by you know which two superpowers at the time. Anyhow the war ended and the Victor democracy instituted. What Dick Cheney failed to mention is El Salvador has one of the highest murder rates on the planet, the murder rate has increased since the end of the war. So democracy has done nothing for them but since they are American allies we in the states sometimes fund a few projects for them . And of course they are exporters of cheap labor to the States. Sending money back home is what keeps the country afloat.

Which leads to another aspect that the democracy cultists don't tell you about. That democracy works better in service economies with relatively high GDP's. Most countries of the world do not fall into that category.
During

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I'm not sure the main interest of democratic nations was EVER to spread the Gospel in the first place? It has been a long time since that goal was paramount! I think most governments, the Russians included(!!), want power for themselves. Money, land, resources, control, POWER! Then while they're there, heck, if they can convert a few folks, great. It's like England. They went into India and a zillion other places with dreams of power and control. Yeah, Anglican missionaries came along and did some good work, but was that the impetus, the real goal of the conquest? The last time you had more of a Gospel-spreading desire was back in the days of monarchies with countries like Spain and Portugal, etc.

Russia isn't playing games in Ukraine because they want to spread Orthodoxy. This is political and about control and regaining land they feel is really Russia. The Ukraine is оукраина (borderlands), and it should be part of Russia as it has been in the past. Nothing about Orthodoxy or holiness or religion, it's about geo-political footing, power, and nature resources, etc.

I don't think there is an idea type of government. We see huge holes in monarchies. Look at how many corrupt, scumbag Roman Emperors there were in the Byzantine era of Rome! So many of the heresies, bad patriarchs, corrupt bishops, and corruptions within Orthodoxy came from her emperors! Same with the West. There were plenty of corrupt kings and Holy Roman Emperors, etc. We know communism SUCKS and is just about the worst you can get, and we know that dictatorships (just look at Assad!) are horrendous. Capitalism leads to decadence and worship of money and liberal philosophies like abortion and "gay marriage," etc.

Put not our trust in princes and in sons of men, in whom there is no salvation...good words from Our Lord!

Bashing democracy is fine, but is there an alternative? Not really. We live in troubled times, and where humans are in charge, you're hosed no matter what the philosophy of government if you ask me!

I will go even further on democracy. Western democracy is basically the new religion. It actually uses the same tactics that the western elitists criticize roman catholicism in times past when they forced converted people.

ALL here constantly hear the politicians speaking about democracy, democracy, democracy, spreading democracy, supporting democracy around the globe etc. In other words the west has long abandoned spreading the gospel to all nations in exchange for spreading her democracy cult.

She has her missionaries embedded in every nation she deems "barbarian and heathenous". Using unsavory means to convert the masses . These missionaries are found in the form of non-governmental organizations such as the National Endowment for Democracy
Other times these are funded by "billionaire philanthropists" the most noteworthy being George Soros.

The democracy cult also funds and sponsors Holy wars that would make any jihadist jealous. The Crusades had nothing on her. Her crusades are seen in the Arab spring, in the Balkan conflict, in Syria, in Ukraine etc.

The former VP of the United States Dick Cheney in one of his debates many years ago assured that the iraqi people had a hunger for democracy because he saw it in El Salvador when people went to the polls enmasse after the civil war.

For those that don't know El Salvador is a small central American country which fought a bloody civil war
Between the democracy lovers and the socialist communist lovers. This was an obvious proxy war being funded and armed by you know which two superpowers at the time. Anyhow the war ended and the Victor democracy instituted. What Dick Cheney failed to mention is El Salvador has one of the highest murder rates on the planet, the murder rate has increased since the end of the war. So democracy has done nothing for them but since they are American allies we in the states sometimes fund a few projects for them . And of course they are exporters of cheap labor to the States. Sending money back home is what keeps the country afloat.

Which leads to another aspect that the democracy cultists don't tell you about. That democracy works better in service economies with relatively high GDP's. Most countries of the world do not fall into that category.
During

 

[SuperCloud]

I will go even further on democracy. Western democracy is basically the new religion. It actually uses the same tactics that the western elitists criticize roman catholicism in times past when they forced converted people.

ALL here constantly hear the politicians speaking about democracy, democracy, democracy, spreading democracy, supporting democracy around the globe etc. In other words the west has long abandoned spreading the gospel to all nations in exchange for spreading her democracy cult.

She has her missionaries embedded in every nation she deems "barbarian and heathenous". Using unsavory means to convert the masses . These missionaries are found in the form of non-governmental organizations such as the National Endowment for Democracy
Other times these are funded by "billionaire philanthropists" the most noteworthy being George Soros.

The democracy cult also funds and sponsors Holy wars that would make any jihadist jealous. The Crusades had nothing on her. Her crusades are seen in the Arab spring, in the Balkan conflict, in Syria, in Ukraine etc.

The former VP of the United States Dick Cheney in one of his debates many years ago assured that the iraqi people had a hunger for democracy because he saw it in El Salvador when people went to the polls enmasse after the civil war.

For those that don't know El Salvador is a small central American country which fought a bloody civil war
Between the democracy lovers and the socialist communist lovers. This was an obvious proxy war being funded and armed by you know which two superpowers at the time. Anyhow the war ended and the Victor democracy instituted. What Dick Cheney failed to mention is El Salvador has one of the highest murder rates on the planet, the murder rate has increased since the end of the war. So democracy has done nothing for them but since they are American allies we in the states sometimes fund a few projects for them . And of course they are exporters of cheap labor to the States. Sending money back home is what keeps the country afloat.

Which leads to another aspect that the democracy cultists don't tell you about. That democracy works better in service economies with relatively high GDP's. Most countries of the world do not fall into that category.
During

Your comparison to the Crusades is not too far off. The United States is constantly going to war, probably unlike any other nation since the time of ancient pagan Rome. And when the U.S. goes to war overseas it usually brings other allies. This was done in Vietnam with its proxy war against communist China and the Soviets. The South Koreans and Australians were helping United States fight. The reasons the U.S. supported French colonial efforts in Vietnam and latter sent in troops after the French pulled out, was interconnected to capitalism and many would argue neo-colonialism. The U.S. was to give Vietnam to Japan as a neo-colonial outpost for inexpensive raw resources.

Granted, I would rather have lived in the USA (which I did) than the communist Soviet Union or China, but their is an American culture of jihad for empty terms like "freedom" and "democracy." And I was surprised to notice, when I was doing some reading on the Spain when it had the most powerful empire, that the Spaniards debating internally in their Spanish kingdoms as to why and if the Spanish should be responsible in the Catholic world for spreading Catholicism across the globe. Modern day Americans view themselves as responsible for Crusading for democracy the exact same way the Spanish at the height of their power viewed themselves as responsible for Crusading Catholicism across the earth.

Democracy is less important than capitalism though. Capitalism and various interests among the U.S. and her strategic allies is the primary motivation why the United States tolerates the non-democratic life of Saudi Arabia but appeals to emotions about other non-democratic nations it wants to overthrow.

There has been a minority of voices with Catholicism critical of Pope John Paul II seeking an alliance with the New World Order, promoting democracy, and hoping to gain some control over the New World Order.

That's the proxy war being fought over the Ukraine in my view. The New World Order being opposed by Putin and Russia. And one ought mark it down, for in the future some will write about Putin and Russia having stood up to the New World Order while one nation after another fell bowing before them, including masses of Christian.

But in terms of internal matters, a nation's internal matters, Putin recognizes I believe, that all political offices are essentially ecclesiastical. I mean by that (I admit I first heard this view of political offices being ecclesiastical from a Catholic interviewed online) something I heard from the monarch of Qatar. And Qatar in terms of per capita GDP (basically the wealth of the citizenry) is the richest nation on earth. The monarch said in interview he gave on an American news show, that what's more important than giving your citizens money and free things (which Qatar does), is what kind of people you turn out in your society.

The monarch of Qatar like Putin is invested trying to reduce the numbers of serial killers, the numbers of child abductions, mass shootings... in their nation among their people. The United States is not invested in this but only treats the disease once it shows up and becomes a problem.

So, to this extent I have no beef with Putin or how the Russian wish to run their country. Although, part of me has sympathies for libertarianism and even for anarchy. In my ideal world you live safe, in peace, and you can do what you want as long as you're not harming or bothering others. But my ideal world is probably only romantic and can only live in fiction. Plus, I must admit I like some of the benefits of the modern state like calling up police, fire fighters, ambulances, and stuff like that.

Ultimately, I can live in a democracy, a welfare state, a constitutional monarchy, an absolute monarchy, in a secular state, in a religious state, under capitalism, under socialism... it just matters what my quality of life is like.

I'll add a couple videos in a separate post dealing with some critiques by a Catholic intellectual over Catholicism and the Vatican taking a wrong turn being too invested in secular democracy and politics.

 

[SuperCloud]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W52gAyNAU4Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFb46ZlkCrE

 

[Chesterton]

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others. - Churchill

 

[seashale76]

What would you advice a person in this situation ? How could I make sure that my disagreement and my view of the Eastern Culture doesn't affect my judgment Eastern Orthodoxy ?

Blind post.

Every culture has it's good and bad points, and I'm proud of my own ethnic background (Western European). When it comes to faith, culture has nothing to do with it for me. Yes, yes, I know religion is part of culture, but what I mean is that I don't let the inconsequential things get in the way of the bigger picture. What you're talking about is inconsequential. Are there things I dislike in the Eastern cultures? Yes. Yes, there are. However, I choose to concentrate on the good.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others. - Churchill

aside from the godly monarch, pretty much. the only ideal from will be when Christ returns and reigns with His saints.