How do we walking with Yeshua?

[lonboy1]

Where do genuine seekers go to find a safe place to learn? To find a community that follows all of Heavenly father's teachings, laws, requirements. That does not add to or take away from Heavenly father's teachings, laws, requirements.

Is there one community that clearly follows all of these teachings, laws, requirements?

How should try to live our lives in the way of the Messiah. (my question is this way does it include the 613 commandment from the old testament, plus all of the messiah words and then his disciples afterwards?)

I ask for help to find guidance as I have not attended any community in over 10 years.

 

[yedida]

You've found it! Welcome home. Ask away, we will do our best to answer you in a way you can understand.

 

[lonboy1]

Many thanks Yedida.

My first question is which version of the Bible is the most accurate? Should the name Yahweh and Yeshua be used in it? I have an NIV, Complete Jewish, House of Yahweh full versions and a new testament aramaic, KJ, and messianic bibles. I am worried that I might be misled by mistranslations So I would like to know if there is one definite bible that can be trusted to be the full and true words of Heavenly father, with nothing added or taken away.

My second concern is how to live the life, I don't know much about the rules, requirement and have tried to read stuff from the internet. I am dishearten sometimes because I just want to know what to do to live in union with yeshua. For example What are the Holy days and how should one behaviour or what needs to be done on them.

The 613 commandments are they mirrored in the New Testament or are there additions things we have to follow? Yeshua words and the disciples afterwards?

So far I understand the following:

We must keep the Sabbath (friday sunset to saturday sunset) but what do you do to celebrate yeshua? prayer, are they any other things to be observed.

You should not call anyone rabbi?
Women should not preach?
You should not have and man made image of heavenly father (statues, does this also include picture, and tv films etc?)
10 Commandments

These are just a few of my many question.

 

[yedida]

First off, RELAX some! Yeshua said his burden is light and His yoke is easy - and it is!

Bibles - hmmm.....Not a one of them is a perfect translation, but there are some that are better than others. I love the way the CJB reads but the font is so very small in mine (the leather-bound) that I rarely use it, and never carry it with me. The NASB is supposed to be the closest to actual translation but is difficult to just read. For doing just normal reading my preference is NIV (easy on the words chosen and large font).
This is all with the NT in mind, I don't use any Christian OT at all.
For the Tanakh I use the Artscroll Stone Ed. 2007 bible. I love the wording, the font is almost large enough and the commentary is good.

Next, lifestyle. I don't know of any true Torah-observant Messianic, Jew or gentile, who doesn't follow kashrut to some degree or another. I started off with the very basic, no pork, no shellfish, and that was about all I cut out of my diet at first. But with that "willingness" the Spirit led me further and 8 years later He's still leading me.
ALL of your lifestyle changes is in baby-steps. God does not expect his babies to be able to run with the "grown-ups!" To this day, if I am going to take a new dish to worship service I call someone to check that all the ingredients are "kosher," I'm still learning. If I cannot reach anyone, I'll bring a bag of chips.

Much in the 613 are not actually mentioned in the NT, but that's not because they are not valid, but it was expected that all those things would be learned weekly in the synagogues by the gentiles coming in. The four "requirements" mentioned in Acts was simply to make the gentiles able to join in the worship at the synagogues and table fellowship immediately.

Again, observing the Shabbes is like going kosher. Baby-steps. I'm still learning about the day. So far, for me, it's a 24hour giving back to Adonai. I don't handle money on that day, I don't surf the web or go outside my home for my own pleasure. In other words, all my activities are geared toward study of His word and worship. I will drive to synagogue but no where else, I will come into forums or websites that have live feeds or chat rooms to fellowship but I don't "surf" the web, and I do no financial business on Shabbes. I prepare my meals and snacks for Shabbes on Fri., and make sure all business is finished by late Fri afternoon. Again, it was baby-steps and I'm still learning.

The Holy Days most assuredly should be observed. They are little memorials/rehearsals of what has or will happen. They are fun and informative. Stay tuned to the forum and as each feast rolls around you will see threads popping up with questions on each one. The next one that is coming (there are 3 more in very quick succession) is Yom Teruah. Google that and you can get a jump on it, or just check out Judaism 101.
Here is a link to El Shaddai Ministries teachings page (scroll down a bit to the feast services recordings), you might find these helpful:
archives
(Keep in mind, my offering this link is not an endorsement that the teacher is 100% correct 100% of the time, only that his teaching is pretty sound. And that's about all we can hope for nowadays....)

But, you know? it's all been a joy, not oppressive at all. No one is in a "I do it better than you" attitude at all. Everyone is learning. And we all love to share what we've been taught!

Your last four questions are debated among messianics. Most have no problem with the term "rabbi" being used, some do. Women teaching is about 50/50. Images: photos, statues, TV - most of us don't use photos or statues, I would say most would be against these. TV, I'm not sure I understand....? could you elaborate? The 10 commandments? yes, definitely we should obey these.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Where do genuine seekers go to find a safe place to learn? To find a community that follows all of Heavenly father's teachings, laws, requirements. That does not add to or take away from Heavenly father's teachings, laws, requirements.

Is there one community that clearly follows all of these teachings, laws, requirements?

How should try to live our lives in the way of the Messiah. (my question is this way does it include the 613 commandment from the old testament, plus all of the messiah words and then his disciples afterwards?)

I ask for help to find guidance as I have not attended any community in over 10 years.

Shalom

If I may ask, what is your testimony? How did you come to know Messiah and why is the subject of community important to you? How did you come to the place of feeling as if it was important to discover whether there was one community that clearly follows all of these teachings, laws, requirements? Have you even began to look for a community of fellowship to attend---either before you asked the questions you did or after you did so? Sometimes knowing how to answer a question can be done better when knowing the story someone has in the way they came to their current spot (Proverbs 18:13).

On a side note, glad to see you dropped into the Bridge Builders forum. Praying you'd come away from it blessed, as there've been alot of discussions that've helped others in some of the same questions you've had.. although they've mainly developed in the conversations centered around the purpose of the forum whenever dialouge has occurred on connecting the Church with what the Lord has been doing in Hebraic steams for some time now...

 

[TorahxKeeper]

If you want a great source for a Bible study. I would suggest E-Sword (Google It)

Look for the Hebrew Roots version. this has many Bibles within it, as well as several fantastic study guides.

It is also free, but it is a pretty large download.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

If you want a great source for a Bible study. I would suggest E-Sword (Google It)

Look for the Hebrew Roots version. this has many Bibles within it, as well as several fantastic study guides.

It is also free, but it is a pretty large download.

Love E-Sword!! Found out on it years ago from another minister and it's indeed beautiful..

 

[lonboy1]

Thanks to all that have replied. I am just afraid and want to do the right things by heavenly father. As for fellowship with others I just want to be in the company of fellow believers and followers of Yeshua. To be able to grow.

There are so many things in life that make our journey with Yeshua hard, old friends that see a change in you, family members and even colleagues at work. I know I am not strong enough but my heart knows what is right and I try my best to be guided.

As for my own life I was in a church (Open Brethen) for about 12 years, then the Mormans for about three years. Then my life changed all for the worst after University, parties, work etc.(10 year gap) But during this time there has always been a calling to follow Yeshua since childhood, sometimes i don't understand it fully. Recently I mean in the last year or so I have been drawn to reading the Bible again, I can't explain it much but there was a yearning to read an aramaic new testament bible and listen to music. After that a messianic bible, then some messianic general books. This is how I got to this point, there has been a sudden explosion in my spirit to follow Yeshua. I have prayed many times over the course of my life and I feel and know Yeshua has answered me. Sent me in the right direction in the messianic faith from all the thousands of church and groups there are.

I am worried I will make mistakes along the way and that the world distractions can sometimes be hard sometimes. I am alone here (Messianic) As in family and friends are not messianic.

I seek to find the community which follows or tries to follow heavenly fathers ways 100% I have had many distractions in life as a tired spirit. I seek guidance from Yeshua and fellowship with Yeshua's followers to live fully in Heavenly fathers ways.

As for the TV Images, what I mean is should we avoid totally TV, because there is much falseness and supporting of things which do not seem right. So for example mainstream biblical programs ( example songs of praise programme BBC1, films, then also mainstream TV ). Are there specialist Messianic programmes that are or try to meet Yeshua ways?

Many thanks to all.

 

[yedida]

Thanks to all that have replied. I am just afraid and want to do the right things by heavenly father. As for fellowship with others I just want to be in the company of fellow believers and followers of Yeshua. To be able to grow.

There are so many things in life that make our journey with Yeshua hard, old friends that see a change in you, family members and even colleagues at work. I know I am not strong enough but my heart knows what is right and I try my best to be guided.
You must follow as the Lord leads and certainly others will see the changes in your life. Many they will not understand, treat them with gentleness and kindness but do not let them sway you from the path you have begun to walk.

As for my own life I was in a church (Open Brethen) for about 12 years, then the Mormans for about three years. Then my life changed all for the worst after University, parties, work etc.(10 year gap) But during this time there has always been a calling to follow Yeshua since childhood, sometimes i don't understand it fully. Recently I mean in the last year or so I have been drawn to reading the Bible again, I can't explain it much but there was a yearning to read an aramaic new testament bible and listen to music. After that a messianic bible, then some messianic general books. This is how I got to this point, there has been a sudden explosion in my spirit to follow Yeshua. I have prayed many times over the course of my life and I feel and know Yeshua has answered me. Sent me in the right direction in the messianic faith from all the thousands of church and groups there are.
Being Messianic, of course, I will agree with you that this is the correct path, lol. Seriously, it's a path somewhere in between Christianity and Judaism, I like to think of it as the best of both worlds.

I am worried I will make mistakes along the way and that the world distractions can sometimes be hard sometimes. I am alone here (Messianic) As in family and friends are not messianic.
We all make mistakes, but I think the greatest mistake is in not even trying. We have a heavenly, eternal High Priest who ever makes intercession for us. If we walk the path He has set before us, He will only say, "Well done" when our walk is finished.

I seek to find the community which follows or tries to follow heavenly fathers ways 100% I have had many distractions in life as a tired spirit. I seek guidance from Yeshua and fellowship with Yeshua's followers to live fully in Heavenly fathers ways.

As for the TV Images, what I mean is should we avoid totally TV, because there is much falseness and supporting of things which do not seem right. So for example mainstream biblical programs ( example songs of praise programme BBC1, films, then also mainstream TV ). Are there specialist Messianic programmes that are or try to meet Yeshua ways?

Many thanks to all.

As for TV, I watch it, but not the "religious" programming. I can't abide those programs. But if you know the truth of what God says, they should be okay to watch when that's your only choice.
And for specifically messianic programs, I don't really know of any. There are a few that try to pass themselves off as such, but I just simply don't trust any of the TVangelists. Sorry, I can't be of more help there.

Enjoy your journey!

 

[ananda]

My first question is which version of the Bible is the most accurate?

The most accurate we have are those in the original languages ... if you're looking for an english translation, the best I've found is the Concordant Literal Version. You can also read it along with an interlinear, parsing, etc. as a free addon to the free Interlinear Scripture Analyzer found at Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software In addition to this software, I use the ISR Scriptures in book format for casual reading.

Should the name Yahweh and Yeshua be used in it?

I believe so ... see Ex 3:15, Ex 9:16, Deu 12:3,4, Isa 12:4, Isa 64:1,2, Isa 65:11, Jer 10:25, Jer 23:27, Eze 39:7, Psa 44:20, Psa 105:1,3.

I have an NIV, Complete Jewish, House of Yahweh full versions and a new testament aramaic, KJ, and messianic bibles. I am worried that I might be misled by mistranslations So I would like to know if there is one definite bible that can be trusted to be the full and true words of Heavenly father, with nothing added or taken away.

Relatively speaking, the only definite Scripture is in the Hebrew and the Greek. I remember a Bible translator saying that all translations are lies (to a certain degree), because something is always lost in the process of translation.

 

[vahavtah157]

I worry a bit that you list yourself as "worried". I know what it's like to want to live better for the sake of your God, but struggling to understand what that entails. But don't let it discourage you. "When my anxious thoughts multiply within me, your consolations delight my soul." Psalm 94:19. Delight in His ways and He will guide you through them.

I do love E-Sword. It's a wonderful tool! But if you like digging deep in to words studies, I suggest two of my favorite websites: interlinearbible.org and blueletterbible.org. They both have infinite resources for in-depth study.

I like to use NASB or ESV. I like to study the original Hebrew and I have found those to be the least disappointing when compared to the original text. If you want a basic but informative look into Hebrew I suggest ancient-hebrew.org.

I don't know where you are, but I hope that you can find a good Messianic congregation near you. I have been so blessed with my fellowship and it is so important to share your ahavat torah, your love of torah, with those who also just want to do everything for the glorification of Yeshua HaMashiach.

Keep praying and keep your chin up. It seems like God is doing wonderful things in your life.

 

[lonboy1]

Dear all, thank you for your advice and support. I have recently started to read about the Divine Council Which is something I have just heard about. I want to know is there a view on this from the community?

I understand there is a spiritual and physical person (Human), When we die we return to spiritual form (No earthly body). Thanks netzarim about the Use of Yahweh in scriptures. I have read some other thing on the internet particularly about the use of elohim which seems to describe the state of being a spirit (which could include any spirit from my understanding). Terms like god, lord etc should not be used etc. I feel a like better now that I know we have to be very careful because of the major translations issues. Its seems that man has a habit of changing many things which is such ashame and damaging to seeker.

About the Divine Council, I read there are 70 spirits that where instructed by yahweh to administer the earth. But that many of these spirits have disobeyed yahweh and will be punished. Currently we are in the stage where these spirits are causing pain and suffering because they are disobeying yahweh. These evil spirits cause government, people and nations to act in the way they do.

My first question is should messianic communities totally separate themselves from the world? Then I thought about lot and his family they where the only ones in the city that serve yahweh and lived among non god fears until yahweh instructed them to leave. Does that mean we to have to stay in the town, cities and village were we live until this time? Or should we move away? (messianic towns, village, cities)

My second question is about type of messianic community, Is there a place where I can find out about the different direct of messianic groups denominations? and why?


My third question is about something I read the other day "children of satan" I understand that those with power, importance, wealth and others who disobey Yahwah are children of satan. That they are dangerous and should be avoided. my question here is that when we want to be with and serve yeshua, yeshua talks about losing your life and following him. I guess I am saying do we leave our friends, family and other if they choice not to take the path we follow? because you can't just seat on the fence with yeshua you have to decide.

My fourth question is are there any Messianic Centres or retreats in Europe, or Israel?

Many thanks to you all and may you all be blessed in Heavenly father.

 

[vahavtah157]

I don't know much about Divine Counsel so I won't comment on that, but I do have other input. I may just be reading between the lines here but it almost sounds like there are specific people you want to get away from. (?) There is Biblical precedent for staying away from the unGodly. But I will say this, "Pursue peace with all men and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord." - Hebrews 12:14 Sanctification is a division of the holy and the profane. The word means 'to be set apart'. So, yes, santification is a pursuit that requires you to be different and step away from this world in a significant way. But that verse says that without it, no one will see the Lord. So what good is our sanctification if it doesn't serve as a beacon of light to those in the dark? "You are the light of the world... let your light shine before all men that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." Matthew 5:14,16 Again, good deeds are the way for our light to shine and allow even the unbelieving a glimpse into the glory of our Father.

If there are people in your life that are not loving, not charitable, not kind, or even downright dangerous either spiritually or physically then I say, yes, get out. But if you are getting discouraged by the world and just want to live in the mountains somewhere with nothing but a Bible (my personal fantasy), I say, hang in there. There are people in this world that need to see how God works in our lives. Everything should be done for the glorification of our Lord, so if you can do something to help those you would sooner retreat from, try that first.

 

[lonboy1]

I and referring to the following when I was taking about separation.

2 Corinthians chapter 6 verse 14 & 17; “14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness? 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate…”

So in this case should we not live fully apart from non messianics?

And about the choice to follow Yeshua, I am referring to this.

Matthew chapter 12 verse 30; "He that is not with me is against me..." By the standard of heavenly father, being in the ‘lukewarm middle’ is not good enough. Revelation chapter 3 verse 15‐16; “I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot…because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth”. One cannot be ‘friends’ with Heavenly father and Satan at the same time. Matthew chapter 6 verse 24; "No man can serve two masters..."

Again here I mean, It people, friends, co worker, family choose to seat on the fence or oppose Heavenly father, would it be best to avoid them? Because they have the potential to damage your own spirit. So living apart would be the best thing in the followship with other messianic believers.

What I am saying is there are different degrees on comfort in our current lives but actually we have to be uncomfortable in our old lives (starting a new life to serve Yeshua)

 

[ananda]

It people, friends, co worker, family choose to seat on the fence or oppose Heavenly father, would it be best to avoid them? Because they have the potential to damage your own spirit. So living apart would be the best thing in the followship with other messianic believers

We are to avoid walking in the sinful ways of the world, but not necessarily withdraw physically from the world to live in a Messianic monastery. How else are we supposed to witness to the world, if we are not among the heathen?

 

[lonboy1]

I take the view that we should be separated but should be known by reputation to be serving Yeshua. Israel's customs are different from the world, With is multi gods culture, Surely this multi god culture is an abomination to Heavenly father who has a jealous nature. As lot was instructed to leave sodom and gomorrah because of it behaviour and Heavenly fathers anger towards this place. Is the world no different in character to sodom and gomorrah. So surely we should leave for the high ground.

Secondly for those who are learning to serve yeshua we need to be in a safe place with other like minded followers to be strengthen and be edified. Heavenly father sent out strong prophets, teachers and others to minister his will. Those learning are still vulnerable to the children of satans attacks. I agree that the message of Yeshua needs to be spread to all that are children of heavenly father. But I am not sure if this applies to learners and seekers before they have the shield and strength to fight of attacks from the children of satan.

The disciples had much time with Yeshua, to learn and be strengthen, but I have a question here, Are all members expected to witness - as in to go out and preach the word or to be an example of the word so that by your example the light shines in you to the world? (1 Corinthians 12)

I believe that Heavenly fathers sees in black and white as in he sets a commandment and expects us to keep them. So if we are to be separate then we should be separate from worldly things. There is no grey.

 

[yedida]

I take the view that we should be separated but should be known by reputation to be serving Yeshua. Israel's customs are different from the world, With is multi gods culture, Surely this multi god culture is an abomination to Heavenly father who has a jealous nature. As lot was instructed to leave sodom and gomorrah because of it behaviour and Heavenly fathers anger towards this place. Is the world no different in character to sodom and gomorrah. So surely we should leave for the high ground.

Secondly for those who are learning to serve yeshua we need to be in a safe place with other like minded followers to be strengthen and be edified. Heavenly father sent out strong prophets, teachers and others to minister his will. Those learning are still vulnerable to the children of satans attacks. I agree that the message of Yeshua needs to be spread to all that are children of heavenly father. But I am not sure if this applies to learners and seekers before they have the shield and strength to fight of attacks from the children of satan.

The disciples had much time with Yeshua, to learn and be strengthen, but I have a question here, Are all members expected to witness - as in to go out and preach the word or to be an example of the word so that by your example the light shines in you to the world? (1 Corinthians 12)

I believe that Heavenly fathers sees in black and white as in he sets a commandment and expects us to keep them. So if we are to be separate then we should be separate from worldly things. There is no grey.

No, there is no grey. Either the light of God's good news shines in you to the world or it doesn't.
If you are separated off physically from those in darkness then your light is of no use. What? Are you going to shine your light in the place that is Light? For what purpose? - no, it's the lost world that requires the light that God has given to you. He gave it to you specifically for that purpose, neither He nor you needs it - you light your candles when the electricity goes out, not because it's pretty but because it allows you to see what is going on. You are that candle in a world of no electricity.

Separate from worldly things? Absolutely! But not separate from the world. There is a big, big difference.

 

[visionary]

No, there is no grey. Either the light of God's good news shines in you to the world or it doesn't.
If you are separated off physically from those in darkness then your light is of no use. What? Are you going to shine your light in the place that is Light? For what purpose? - no, it's the lost world that requires the light that God has given to you. He gave it to you specifically for that purpose, neither He nor you needs it - you light your candles when the electricity goes out, not because it's pretty but because it allows you to see what is going on. You are that candle in a world of no electricity.

Separate from worldly things? Absolutely! But not separate from the world. There is a big, big difference.

In the world but not of the world....

 

[lonboy1]

Hi All,

Thanks for your replies, I still have some difficulty with the last two response because I believe and feel that separation is clearly shown in the bible throughout history. Abram left his fathers house and was separated from all for many years, Moses was in the wildness for many years, and there are other that needed a time of separation at the beginning.

It seem to me that when you are starting out you are not strong enough to deal with the world and the children of satan. That walking in the way of yeshua the narrow road is challenging and rewarding. Satan is very power and learners and seeker are at there weakest when they are learning or have issues with life. What better way to attack seeker and learner when they are weak and in the world.

When you are stronger yes you should be a light but only at that point, like moses return after he had heavenly fathers counsel. Otherwise to early then you might not be able to survive the attacks from the children of satan.

I still think that its important not to compromise with the world, and to follow the 613 laws.
2 Corinthians chapter 6 verse 14 & 17; “14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness? 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate…”

My question here is in the world what do you mean exactly? If a company, organisation or government is dishonest should we not be part of it? Its politics is dirty should we not vote? IF TV has negative influences should we not watch it? - Hollywood glamour, celebrity idols, etc? If the love of money, trading and all the mis-selling scandal is not another issues - (dishonest scales and measure). How are we to live in the world with the extremes we see on a daily basis?

 

[yedida]

Hi All,

Thanks for your replies, I still have some difficulty with the last two response because I believe and feel that separation is clearly shown in the bible throughout history. Abram left his fathers house and was separated from all for many years, Moses was in the wildness for many years, and there are other that needed a time of separation at the beginning.

It seem to me that when you are starting out you are not strong enough to deal with the world and the children of satan. That walking in the way of yeshua the narrow road is challenging and rewarding. Satan is very power and learners and seeker are at there weakest when they are learning or have issues with life. What better way to attack seeker and learner when they are weak and in the world.

When you are stronger yes you should be a light but only at that point, like moses return after he had heavenly fathers counsel. Otherwise to early then you might not be able to survive the attacks from the children of satan.

I still think that its important not to compromise with the world, and to follow the 613 laws.
2 Corinthians chapter 6 verse 14 & 17; “14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness? 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate…”

My question here is in the world what do you mean exactly? If a company, organisation or government is dishonest should we not be part of it? Its politics is dirty should we not vote? IF TV has negative influences should we not watch it? - Hollywood glamour, celebrity idols, etc? If the love of money, trading and all the mis-selling scandal is not another issues - (dishonest scales and measure). How are we to live in the world with the extremes we see on a daily basis?

Because God is faithful to finish what he started. How can you learn to dance if you don't take those first tentative steps. You'll spin and fall on your face so many times, but he is faithful to put you back on your feet. You'll leap in the air and come down in a terribly painful split, but he is faithful to comfort, heal, and put you back on your feet. One day, in the world (but not of the world) your dance will amaze and enthrall and others will want to learn.....you now know how to teach. You'll never be able to teach what you have not learned by experience because to teach you also need something called "empathy."

Just as an aside:
We have things available to us today that Abraham, Moses, Paul didn't have - CDs, books, and most importantly, the Bible. (Yes, by Paul's day, the Tanakh was written, but it wasn't available to the average person. Usually only one scroll per "book" was available to the average synagogue but they were not in people's homes as personal property - too expensive, too bulky. Can you imagine Paul carrying around 30+ scrolls?)