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How do we know . . . .

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WarriorAngel

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I'd be of a mind that Christ didn't need to refer to any texts to know the scriptures, myself.
Interestingly, the Lord did teach them scriptures as they walked [after the Resurrection]..
And then He taught them for 40 days before He ascended.

Did He "NEED" to learn them? No.
Did He refer to them? Yes.

Remember when He was 12.......?
 
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Montalban

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I'd be of a mind that Christ didn't need to refer to any texts to know the scriptures, myself.

What books did Jesus teach love they neighbour (Matthew 5:43) too?

Jesus refers to the OT (Lev. 19:18 ) but says a new commandment. This shows that his 'lesson' can be based on the written word, but does not follow it precisely.
 
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DArceri

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What books did Jesus teach love they neighbour (Matthew 5:43) too?

Jesus refers to the OT (Lev. 19:18 ) but says a new commandment. This shows that his 'lesson' can be based on the written word, but does not follow it precisely.
He fulfilled scripture. How are you suggesting that He did not follow it precisely? Isn't God ultimately the author of scripture? Jesus taught what certain scriptural passages truly meant (at a spritual level). He did not teach anything other than Truth (of all of scripture), and He followed it perfectly. BTW, teaching to love God first and foremost, and then to love your neighbor as much as yourself encapsulates the 10 commandments. He did not change or add to it.
 
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Rick Otto

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Interestingly, the Lord did teach them scriptures as they walked [after the Resurrection]..
And then He taught them for 40 days before He ascended.

Did He "NEED" to learn them? No.
Did He refer to them? Yes.

Remember when He was 12.......?
Hi, sweetheart.
I been busy & this forum's been too squirrely to hang with lately...

I'm thinkin' He "had to" learn the scriptures simply as an exercise of the same obedience expected of most Jewish males, except He probably enjoyed it more than most Jewish males.

I hope this posts successfully...
copy your posts before you hit Submit Reply, just in case.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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Hi, sweetheart.
I been busy & this forum's been too squirrely to hang with lately...

I'm thinkin' He "had to" learn the scriptures simply as an exercise of the same obedience expected of most Jewish males, except He probably enjoyed it more than most Jewish males.

I hope this posts successfully...
copy your posts before you hit Submit Reply, just in case.

squirrely is the understatement of the year.

Where's good ole Erwin when you need him.

I find myself avoiding CF... maybe not a bad thing. :(

Forgive me...
 
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Montalban

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He fulfilled scripture. How are you suggesting that He did not follow it precisely?
I'm not saying that at all. You have the OT and along comes Jesus and says "You're read this, but I say this...".

Isn't God ultimately the author of scripture?
No. An author is the person who writes, not the one who inspired the writing, else you could argue that Mrs Shakespeare wrote his sonnets.

Jesus taught what certain scriptural passages truly meant (at a spritual level).
I agree. Did he 'teach' these new ways by Scripture? Or, did he orally teach it. You see his WORD outstrips the words.
BTW, teaching to love God first and foremost, and then to love your neighbor as much as yourself encapsulates the 10 commandments. He did not change or add to it.
He did change it insofar as those who rigourously followed the written law would love their co-religionists but lose sight of 'the message'; the Pharisses and their ilk were so wrapped up in what the written word said.
 
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Uphill Battle

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No doubt... but that doesn't mean the Apostles didn't need it. I was talking about what Christ taught the Apostles from...

Forgive me...
any evidence that he sat them down with a textbook? Or, is it like the NT seems to point to, that he taught them word of mouth, because he knew the scriptures word for word?


Interestingly, the Lord did teach them scriptures as they walked [after the Resurrection]..
And then He taught them for 40 days before He ascended.

Did He "NEED" to learn them? No.
Did He refer to them? Yes.

Remember when He was 12.......?
I'm not stating that he didnt' know scripture. I'm stating I doubt that he needed any text to know it.
 
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racer

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Forgive me...

The post to which you are referring was not a statement, it was a series of questions which you obviously dodged answering. Why is that? Let me repost the questions for you and see if you can give any answers of substance:
1. Is not God the ultimate author of Scripture?

2. Is He not all knowing? Would He not have known that there would be new Scripture along with the old?

3. And, since you believe that they could only have been referring to the Old Testament, do you think that nullifies the authority of the New Testament?

Your refusal to answer these questions--if you choose to do so--will be answer enough.
 
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racer

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Would you consider the partaking of The Holy Eucharist to be among the things taught verbally as essential but not explained "clearly enough" in scripture?
No, I think that Holy “Communion” is explained pretty clearly.
We, of course, say that it is found in scripture... others argue that it is not.

Forgive me...
Communion is, and since Eucharist simply means thanksgiving, I suppose it is, also. However, the Real Presence is not.
 
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racer

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Bible college is a secular source.
Please explain this assertion. For instance, in Oklahoma we have Oklahoma Baptist University, St. Gregory's (Catholic College), and Mid Americal Christian College, just to name a few. How do you argue that these are secular sources?
 
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racer

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St. Joseph was 110 when he died, and Christ himself buried him the year before starting his ministry.

Like I said... It all depends on who you trust for information.

I see The Church of Antioch as being the most reliable source.

Forgive me...
You attend this church? Where is it located?
 
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Uphill Battle

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Please explain this assertion. For instance, in Oklahoma we have Oklahoma Baptist University, St. Gregory's (Catholic College), and Mid Americal Chistian College, just to name a few. How do you argue that these are secular sources?
the only "non-secular" source is the Orthodox source. (sic)
 
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racer

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None that are definitive, and certainly none that teach the opposite of what The Churches teach.

Well, I tend to follow what does not teach opposite of the Gospel--Scripture.
I would rather have The Church without the scriptures that The scriptures without The Church.

Oh, ye who has so little faith in God!
 
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racer

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My first question was if there are others. My second question was if there are any canonized (yes, biblical) sources. Sorry that I didn't make my questions clear.:sorry:
Some people are just used to being spoon fed and having every last thing spelled out for them, I just pray that they rightly understand what their faith is teaching them . . . . :pray:
 
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racer

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You were answering the question...

"What gives scripture it's authority?"

I don't see how you have answered the question here.

Forgive me...
I didn't answer it in the particular post you have cited here, but I did answer it in the previous post. You just won't even lift your blinders even a little . . . .
 
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racer

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Seriously, i could pick up a Bible and interpret it to what i liked...[without using the Catholic reasoning] and it would be sola scriptura, because i can believe whatever i like.
WA, you know that you have been told numerous times that is not what the ideology of Sola Scriptura means.
Does that make me right?
You might get some things right.
So since Jesus said to the woman at the well..
'You have 5 husbands'...
Does that mean we are legally married to the first man we are with?

Huh? :scratch:
No. [unless we had wedding vows]
So, you are saying that we do not find in Scripture where pre-marital sex is sinful?
Figured i would answer that. Since fornication is wrong. BUT the Bible seems to tell us otherwise...
Where?
Sola Scriptura doesnt work.
No one argues that Sola Scriptura prevents wrong discernment or misinterpretation. Sola Scriptura does not negate the teaching authority of the Church. I've said it before and I'll say it again, WA. It's just like taking a biology class--they don't just throw students in a room with a book and say figure it out on your own--though there will be those who can and will. However, teachers are provided to "teach" and "clarify" for us what is in the Biology "text book." The Bible is the Churche's text book.

I mean seriously, if a teacher just stood up in front of Biology class and fed us information without any concrete source to support her teachings, how would we know she had a clue as to what she was saying?
 
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Rick Otto

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Montalban; No. An author is the person who writes, not the one who inspired the writing, else you could argue that Mrs Shakespeare wrote his sonnets.
That distinction is true and is as important as the distinction between inspiration of God, & inspiration of wives (mine is a goddess, BTW:blush: ).


I agree. Did he 'teach' these new ways by Scripture? Or, did he orally teach it. You see his WORD outstrips the words.
Point is, His information was scripture-based in that scripture is God-based.

He did change it insofar as those who rigourously followed the written law would love their co-religionists but lose sight of 'the message'; the Pharisses and their ilk were so wrapped up in what the written word said.
Please allow me to point out that the Pharisees weren't wrapped up at all in the content of scripture or they wouldn't have missed identifying Yashua as Christ.
What they were wrapped up in was their their own religiosity.
It was the same God with the same intentions, the change was in the covenant. He brought grace into the salvation equation.:cool:
 
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Rick Otto

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrthodoxyUSA
St. Joseph was 110 when he died, and Christ himself buried him the year before starting his ministry.

Like I said... It all depends on who you trust for information.

I see The Church of Antioch as being the most reliable source.

Forgive me...

You attend this church? Where is it located?
2r6p9vb.jpg

Looks like Arkansas.
 
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